What is 3EC?

Hayseed

Bronze Supporter
Jun 7, 2018
345
Keyser, WV
I hope to reach this stage not long from now, this posting could help me greatly if I knew a couple of things that are missing. How do you know how much bleach and CYA to put in. O pr??? so get 3EC in there, and whatever? What is this and how much ? And whatever CYA dissolving in a sock. If I stumbled on to this paragraph outside of this forum I would swear you were having some kind of stroke. Can you break down what you said and explain in a form that we layman can understand? Is the bleach amount and CYA amount based on the estimated gallons of water? Dribble chemical into the return stream? Return stream to the pool and not the stream return to the pump and filter? Sorry for being so stupid, but by the time I tried to google all this info I would be quite old. Is their stickies on the forum that explain these things? Thanks
 
Re: What is 3EC?

I hope to reach this stage not long from now, this posting could help me greatly if I knew a couple of things that are missing. How do you know how much bleach and CYA to put in. O pr??? so get 3EC in there, and whatever? What is this and how much ? And whatever CYA dissolving in a sock. If I stumbled on to this paragraph outside of this forum I would swear you were having some kind of stroke. Can you break down what you said and explain in a form that we layman can understand? Is the bleach amount and CYA amount based on the estimated gallons of water? Dribble chemical into the return stream? Return stream to the pool and not the stream return to the pump and filter? Sorry for being so stupid, but by the time I tried to google all this info I would be quite old. Is their stickies on the forum that explain these things? Thanks
Start with ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry That should untangle the acronyms. Then look in Pool School - Recommended Pool Chemicals to see what chemical affects what and how to add it. It explains the sock, too. Pool School has articles on all sorts of subjects.

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Re: What is 3EC?

What is 3 EC, I have yet to find any information directly relating to what amount of what chemicals you are to add to a newly filled pool to get it to a stage where you can begin testing. From my outside searches, I don't seem to find much info in this pool school or any other information given on this forum. I believe I just don't know how to access it and I have really tried. I think I am to add chlorine stabilizers 1.3 lbs per 10,000 gal, every ten hours, three times, then add liquid chlorine to bring it up to 40 ppm. That sound about right?

as for 3EC I can't find mention of this anywhere
 
Re: What is 3EC?

3 FC is shorthand for 3 parts per million free chlorine. If you look at a cheapie pool tester it will have numbers up the side of the colors. Those are parts per million. Test strips have numbers. Those are also parts per million. When we do the accurate tests, counting drops and multiplying, the end result is parts per million.

How much chemical corresponds to parts per million is the job of poolmath. To use it, you need to know your pool's size. If you had a million gallon pool and you wanted 3 parts per million, you;d add 3 gallons. But what if your pool is only half-a-million? What if it's only 10,000? Let poolmath do it. You tell it what you have and what you want it to be and it will tell you how much to add of what chemical. It's pretty instinctive, or you can read the instructions here: Pool School - PoolMath

You need to test the water before you add things, in general. But for a fresh fill, you can be sure the CYA will be zero. Why? Because it doesn't occur in nature and it won't be in any drinking water supply. So there's no point in testing it because it will be zero and you'll have wasted a bunch of reagents for nothing. Tap water will probably have some chlorine in it, but without any CYA to protect it, it'll be gone in minutes.

Once your pool is filled and the pump is running and the water is circulating and doesn't leak, you can start adding chemicals. For chlorine, you need to know the size of your pool and the strength of the bleach you bought. Then you plug in zero for now and 3 for target and let it do the math. Add that much.

Same thing for the stabilizer aka cyanuric acid aka CYA.

Then you'll need to test the pH and the Total Alkalinity and determine if either or both needs adjustment. If unsure, post about it and someone can walk you through it.

Once you have CYA dissolving and chlorine in the water and the pH is between 7.2 and 7.8, hop in :splash:

People here will help you figure things out, but you'll need to understand things in ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry and Pool School - Recommended Pool Chemicals and [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA]

If you just want someone to tell you what to add, a pool store will be more than happy to do that. Heck, they'll even test your water for free. We want you to be able to take care of it yourself. A couple days of doing it and seeing the results when you test the water and it will all make sense.
 
IMG_6655.jpgDoes this look correct? I don't understand the information, but I see it is there. Add 73 oz of 6% bleach? 96 oz, don't know what this means. Or add 3.3? Confusing can you please break this down fo me so I can understand? If this is all wrong I will try again. Thanks
 
View attachment 81483Does this look correct? I don't understand the information, but I see it is there. Add 73 oz of 6% bleach? 96 oz, don't know what this means. Or add 3.3? Confusing can you please break this down fo me so I can understand? If this is all wrong I will try again. Thanks

Do you have 6% bleach or are you just using the default value for that text box on PoolMath? If you don't already have your bleach for your pool. Walmart sells a 1 gallon bottle of 10% bleach for a good price. The percentage there is the amount of chlorine that's in that bottle from the store, so 6% bleach means it literally only 6% of the liquid in that bleach bottle is actual chlorine. 10% liquid shock in Walmart's pool section has 10% of the liquid as chlorine. They have to dilute it since the higher the concentration, the shorter the shelf life and the more dangerous it is for consumers. 6%, 10%, 12.5% are all perfectly safe and last a few months before they start to degrade.

If you hover your mouse (or click if on mobile) over the 73oz on that page, the white box at the top will tell you how many quarts, gallons, cups, etc you need to add. So if you have 6% bleach, you'd add 73oz or 2 quarts and 1 cup of beach. If you buy 10%, change the percentage on PoolMath to 10% and you'd need to add 45oz, or 1 quart and 1 cup.

As your CYA level comes up, you'll need to raise your FC target to match. So while you're aiming for 3ppm FC right now, once your CYA is at 30ppm, you'll need to raise your FC to 5ppm instead. If your CYA test results say 40ppm CYA, you'd target a FC of 6ppm instead. As you can see, the higher your CYA, the higher your FC target.

Read this: Pool School - Recommended Levels for the Recommended chemical levels based on your pool's surface type, and Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart for what CYA and FC level you should be targeting.
 
One other thing I was told early on which helped me a whole lot in the past few weeks my pool has been open. And that fact is that it's ok to be a little off in your calculations and adding chemicals. For instance...

Let's say I just ran the Free Chlorine (also called FC) test and I'm now down to 2. Ok, I need to add some chlorine because my goal for FC is actually 6. So the Pool Math page tells me add 69 oz of my type of bleach (for me, that's 10% chlorine from Wally World), I always use a 16oz red solo cup to add my chlorine. Well, I know that filled up to the very top brim of the cup is 16 ounces so if I need to add 69 ounces total, I just do the math and round up or down to the nearest HALF SOLO CUP.

So in this case, 69 oz divided by 16 oz is 4.3 red solo cups. Cool. I add 4 full cups of bleach, add another half a solo cup and call it done. Yes, I really added somewhere around 70 or 72 or maybe even 74 oz instead of exactly 69 oz. It'll be all right. I'll test tomorrow and adjust it however I need to adjust it.
 
Thanks for all the help. In the chart above the only thing I put was the only thing I knew the gallons of water in my pool. I will go back to this chart and put bleach value at 10%. The bleach you mention at Wally World is this regular Clorox bleach or a pool designated type bleach. So hypothetically I am to directed to add 45oz so do I just pour it into the pool, near where the return water enters pool? Ok now I wait for that to circulate through the pool system, 10 hours? Overnight? 8 hours? Now I run a test with,Taylor test kit I have, for the level of cya. Ok let's say like you mentioned it's 40 ppm. I then target for FC at 6 ppm. I understood I think until now. What I don't understand or might have missed along the way is, what do I do to find out what the FC ppm is? Do I then test for FC ppm levels? If this is all correct, and the FC levels are testing at let's say 4 ppm. What do I do to raise the level to 6 ppm. Or if it is fictionally higher than 6, what do I do? I am through all this confused by the mentioning of bleach, and the mentioning of shock. I don't know which I am to use one or the other or both? I told you you I was slow, so please bare with me. Thanks guys
 
Hayseed, you can stop apologizing. It's really ok to ask more questions. Let me start with the easiest of your questions.

1. Bleach

Bleach is the same thing as liquid chlorine, also called LC here on our forum. LC is also the same thing as sodium hypochlorite. That is the official / proper / technical chemical name. Some jugs might only be 3% concentration. Some might be 6% or 8% or 10% or 12.5% or whatever but what most everyone highly recommends using is some strong concentration of bleach. I don't really know what the other 90% is but I would guess probably water!!??!? The cheaper the bleach, the more you should buy. What I purchase at Wally World is the stuff they sell in the pool dept. It sells for $3.60 and I think they call it Pool Essentials Chlorinating Liquid but I looked at the label and near the bottom, it says in plain English, "Sodium Hypochlorite - 10%" so I knew it was what I wanted to get.

2. Testing

Yes, your guess is absolutely correct. I know my Free Chlorine level (remember, it's called the FC test on Taylor and TF100 kits) is lower than what I want it to be because I just tested it a few minutes ago. So the test says my FC level is 2. Dog-gone-it that is just too low. So now I have to add some Wally World liquid chlorine to get my FC levels back up again. Why was it 6 yesterday and only 2 this morning. Well, the sun was out all day and my g-kids came and swam for an hour.... whatever. So I pour my 4 and a half full red solo cups of chlorine in the pool while the pump is running. I was told by Richard320 and a few others that I should pour it very, very, very slowly right into the water stream where my return is quickly shoving water into my pool at full blast. So I pour it in about 20-30 seconds for each cup full. If that's a little too fast, then so be it. Again, whatever floats your boat.

3. Goal FC level

Ah, but now you may be asking yourself.... how do you know that your goal FC level is 6. Why not shoot for something really high like 10 or 20 or whatever and save yourself the trouble of checking it again tomorrow. Well, that's where the chart comes in handy. I know I do not have a salt water generator AND I know my CYA level is 40 for this week. So I looked on the chart (see link two lines down) and it said "Target FC for my pool is 5-7" so I shoot for the middle which is 6.

https://www.troublefreepool.com/content/128-chlorine-cya-chart-slam-shock


4. Testing again.

Yeah, if you want to test again to be sure your FC levels go up as much as you think they should, then go for it. After about 30-45 minutes, I've tested again just for FC and seen the increase. It's really that fast. Other stuff won't show up in a test quite that quickly. CYA, for instance, takes ummmm maybe 1-2 days. I think....

Does that make more sense now?
 

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First, MrBfromNC, I really hope you are a school teacher or something cuz that's a great explanation to answer the questions he asked. Also, you need to be the one to write the Pool School articles, lol.

Hayseed, here, there really is no such thing as a stupid question or asking too many questions. Taking care of a pool can be complicated in some cases, especially if you have been given bad information in the past or if you have no experience at all with pools prior to coming here. The TFP method tries to (excuse the phrase) dumb it down as much as possible so that anyone of any age can understand it, and once you've gotten the hang of everything, it's super simple and easy.

From what you said, it sounds like you might be thinking bleach raises you CYA... Bleach or liquid chlorine raises your FC. You don't want to use anything that is a solid form of chlorine like shock powders or chlorine tabs, since those contain extra ingredient that keep the chlorine in a solid state, but also will raise other levels in your pool that are difficult to reduce. Liquid chlorine (which is just strong bleach) essentially just contains dissolved chlorine, water, and a small amount of salt. Using liquid chlorine or bleach means you don't add anything extra to your pool and only add what you want to add.

To low FC, add bleach; to high FC, don't worry about it. The sun will quickly degrade any excess FC in your pool, which means any FC that isn't protected by CYA. The CYA protects the FC from the sunlight, but it can only protect so much FC, which is why you don't target a FC that's higher than recommended. At the same time, CYA also reduces the sanitizing effects of FC, which is why as you increase your CYA, you also increase FC. See how the 2 go hand in hand? As CYA goes up, FC needs to go up, if CYA goes down (it does degrade at a very slow rate) you FC needs to go down.

To raise your CYA, you add stabilizer (I buy chlorox brand from Walmart). 9 out of 10 times, it will be marketed as stabilizer. This is a granular white stuff, not the stabilized chlorine tabs that are round discs. Recommended to start with a target of 30 or 40. If you live somewhere super hot with intense sunlight like Texas, or any hot southern state, you might end up raising your CYA higher to fight the degradation from the sunlight. If your CYA gets outrageously high, like 100+, the only way to reduce it is to drain some of your water and start over. CYA is one of those chemicals that basically never leaves your pool.

For CYA testing, you start with 0 in your tap water, use PoolMath to find the amount to add, and only add 3/4 of the amount Pool Math says so you don't overshoot. Give it half a week to a week and retest, but during this waiting period, you go ahead and target your FC based on the CYA level you had targeted. Once you test your CYA a week later, you might need to add more, or might be fine where it is.

CYA and FC are the 2 most important chemicals to worry about at first, and once you've added your CYA to raise it's level, you can then work on other tests like Calcium Hardness (if you have a plaster pool), Total Alkalinity, and pH.

So now you're added your CYA in a sock and it's dissolved in your pool. Use your pH test now to check your pool. If the pH is below 7.2 add 20-Mule Borax from Walmart to raise it up some. If your pH is above 7.8, add muriatic acid from a hardware store to lower your pH back down. Generally speaking, pH tends to climb up over time, so you'll have to periodically add more muriatic acid (MA) to keep it in the 7.2-7.8 range.

For the TA (Total Alkalinity) test, make sure you wipe the tip of the final bottle in that test with a damp paper towel after each and every drop so you don't get too high of a result (bit of complicated reasons for this). If TA is high, your pH will rise faster, and adding MA to lower pH also lowers your TA, so it'll correct itself over time. If your TA is too low, add some cheap baking soda to raise it up. The proper amount of TA for your pool can vary quite a bit from pool to pool, and you'll notice over time that your TA tends to go towards a specific amount. The "recommended" amount is 60-80ppm I think, but my pool prefers 50 and so that's what I use.

Each day, test your FC, CC, and pH.
Once a week, test your TA and CH.
Once a month, test your CYA.

BTW, CC is the Combined Chloromines. This is an indication of if there's algae in your pool. If it's over 1ppm, you might have algae. Otherwise your fine.

Also, regardless of what the Taylor directions say, test your FC and CC this way to save some of the reagents: 10mL of sample water from your pool, 1 scoop of the powder, each drop will then equal 0.5ppm. So if it takes 8 drops, you have 4ppm. I think with Taylor's directions, 4ppm would be 20 drops cuz they are 0.2ppm per drop...
 
Danger Will Robinson, system overload!! Reading all this, provided me with a lot of info I understood. And yet still a lot I will have to read and reread until it sinks in. Sad thing is, is that this is dumbed down. On thing that popped out is the statement, so now you've added your CYA in a sock. Where did this come from, I don't remember the pool calculator mention how much or to even add the CYA. I tried to include a picture of the CYA I was told to buy from walmart but I have reached some kind of quota or whatever it is, and can,t post it. How do I know how much CYA to add? I know I am going to be adding 45 oz of 10% chlorine product. Mr b said this was correct and told me how to add it, but no mention of CYA. Is the CYA predicated to the amount of chlorine added? And do you add chlorine then CYA. And can you explain sock in use of adding CYA? hope you meant it when you said you can't ask to many questions. Adding the borax and the muratic acid to adjust PH levels, how do you know what amounts to add? Each day test FC CC, ph? Is this just until I get the pool water stabilized? Or is this every day? More questions. Thanks for all your help.
 
First and foremost can you provide a full set of test results? If you're unsure of any of the tests, read Pool School - Extended Test Kit Directions to get more in-depth directions and feel free to post back if you have any questions not answered there. Have you added any CYA or solid forms of chlorine like shock powder or chlorinating tablets? If you haven't added any of these to your pool since it was filled, then your CYA is 0. If you have added any of these, you'll have to wait until its bright outside tomorrow to do the CYA part of the test kit.

Please post your test results like this:
FC:
CC:
pH:
TA:
CH:
CYA:


While you're (hopefully) doing those tests, I'll be writing up a longer post answering the questions you asked.
 
Pool School is a great place to get the answers to some of what you've asked and other questions you've probably not asked yet.

I could have sworn I saw an article on adding CYA in Pool School at one point, but can't locate right now. Basically, enter your test result into PoolMath and a target of 40ppm. If it says in each section "Not Setup", you can scroll to the last yellow section and select these options so it'll show you the typical recommended range. First select "Troublefreepool.com", then "Bleach", then "Fiberglass". I'm assuming a Resin pool is like fiberglass? Not really sure on that.... Is the pool rough like concrete or really smooth like glass? Anyway, look in the CYA section and it'll say something like "[FONT=&quot]Add 62[/FONT][FONT=&quot] by weight or 65[/FONT][FONT=&quot] by volume of stabilizer"[/FONT]. Its your choice if you want to measure it by weight or by liquid volume. If by weight, 62oz is about 3lbs 14oz; If by liquid volume, 65oz is about 2 quarts 1 oz. These are just the numbers I got when doing your pool and assuming you've never added stabilizer of any kind, so please don't use these numbers unless you really have never added any stabilizer or solid chlorine. Now measure out that amount of CYA (stabilizer) either with a small kitchen scale or a measuring cup and find a decent quality full length sock with no holes in it. Believe it or not, you'll now carefully pour that CYA into the sock. Helps to have your spouse or someone hold the sock while you pour. The reason for this is that CYA takes a lot of effort to dissolve in water, and if poured directly into the pool, it will literally sit on the bottom of the pool as little beads like sand for weeks on end. If you poured into your skimmer, that creates the problem of having the beads of CYA undissolved in your filter and you don't even know how much isn't dissolved. With a sock however, you can physically grab the sock and see how much is left in it. Hang the sock in front of a return jet (where the water come back into the pool after your filter and pump). The strong water shooting out of the jet will help the CYA dissolve much quicker. Also, every 15 mins or so, you can come out and massage the sock to help the CYA dissolve. Shouldn't take more than a couple hours to dissolve, rather than weeks if poured directly into the pool. Also, assuming everything is fine in your pool, you can definitely swim in your pool while the CYA sock is hanging and dissolving, just don't let any crazy kids try to lick or or something like that. The amount that comes out already mixed in water is safe and dilutes quickly in the pool this way.

For posting pictures, you can do one of 2 things. Either donate to TFP Forums (helping cover website costs) and you'll get a much increased storage limit, or post to another site like postimg.cc. That site has nifty share buttons that will copy the forum code to both link to the picture and show the picture in line here..

PoolMath can only calculate what you type in, so if you only type in the test results for FC, it can't tell you how much CYA is needed. You need to type in all your results in the first blank, and your targets into the second box. Once I see your test results, I can type it in and post a screenshot so you'll see how its done.

Bleach will be added daily, and yes, you should start off testing every day. If something is low after your test and PoolMath says to add something, do that. Test again the next day and repeat. After a couple weeks and when you get the hang of everything, you'll start to notice that you might add "X" amount of bleach every day, so you can start to test every other day and just add the previous amount of bleach on the day you don't test. Again though, that's after several weeks of daily testing when you fully understand what your pool needs and how its levels tend to change. If you and your family go out and swim for 4 hours, and you test right after you get out, you might notice your FC has dropped, because your body being in the water does react to the chlorine (more specifically, stuff like oils and dead skin react to the chlorine). So you'll start to see that the day after you swim a bunch, you might add double of your normal amount to get your FC back up. As you can see, you'll learn your pool and how it reacts to different things, and can start testing a little less often, but still add bleach every day.

This goes for pH too. Splashing around will raise the pH of your pool and once the pH goes above 7.8, you'll add some MA to lower the pH back down. With the proper TA level, you might add MA once a week or even only once or twice a month.
 
First, MrBfromNC, I really hope you are a school teacher or something cuz that's a great explanation to answer the questions he asked. Also, you need to be the one to write the Pool School articles, lol.


Thanks, Lightmaster. I'm just a humble cartographer by trade but I like to help if I can. Sounds like you've got this mostly under control. I'll read through the rest of this thread and probably offer up another .02 or so (where possible).
::epds::

FYI, I THINK Hayseed is still in the process of getting his AGP set up (aka NOT filled with water quite yet). Am I correct, Hayseed sir?
 
Bleach will be added daily, and yes, you should start off testing every day. If something is low after your test and PoolMath says to add something, do that. Test again the next day and repeat. After a couple weeks and when you get the hang of everything, you'll start to notice that you might add "X" amount of bleach every day, so you can start to test every other day and just add the previous amount of bleach on the day you don't test.

And I tend to agree here as well. Even though my pool has only been opened for 3 weeks, I still test Free Chlorine, Combined Chlorine (FC and CC) and pH every single day. I know it will probably need about 60-80 oz of Chlorine every evening but there are times where it has surprised me and only needed 30-40 ounces instead. I might have skipped testing once or twice in the past 22 days, but I really want to make it a daily habit so I can closely watch my levels. Just the control freak in me, I suppose. :rolleyes:
 
Mr B. and Lightmaster! You guys ROCK! :super: Thanks for helping Hayseed out!! :hug:

Hayseed The ONLY "bad" questions are the ones not asked! PLEASE ask as many times as you need to. If you do not understand how it is said ask again. We all learn in different ways. You sound like me-need to see it , say it, do it many times for it to all click....Until I can REALLY use it I don't really understand it. We got ya!

Kim:kim:
 
I was wondering about something concerning the mods (but about a similar topic) over the past few days. I wonder if all the mods have some type of standard responses saved as a word doc or text file on their computers.... for instance:

Case 1. Somebody starts a thread asking about what order they should add their chemicals AFTER getting results from a FREE pool store water test.
** mod inserts standard response such as "We find pool store testing to be very unreliable and recommend you purchase a TF-100 or Taylor etc etc etc."

----

Case 2. Somebody starts a thread saying their pool is a swamp and they shocking their pool by adding chlorine pucks but it has been green for 3 months now
** mod inserts standard response such as "You need to start a SLAM. This is not a one time addition of chlorine but a process of getting rid of algae by keeping liquid chlorine circulating through your pool, vacuuming, brushing, drinking an occasional beer and then repeating the etc. etc. etc."


Could they possibly have the time to type out these kinds of answers over and over and over again every day they are logged in?

- - - Updated - - -

And another question, are they on some kind of rotation or take shifts or what? I see Marty and Richard and Kim and Zea on here like just about every single day!!
 
All of the Mods, Experts, and guides on the site are volunteers. There is no schedule we get on when we can and help out where we can be helpful.

Our motivations are simply to help people with their pools and teach them how to have a TFP pool.

Others may have some stuff saved up as a standard response, but me personally I type everything out each time because I sometimes I work harder and not smarter.
 

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