What do I do with these Test results?

[Oldpool4629]

Moved from here.

Oh, heavens, I'm in the same boat!!! I started on this site several years ago and was doing great on the BBB system (and enjoy the forum's banter to gain knowledge). Sadly, I went off the rails when I went on a couple of long trips and got lazy so I started using the tablets in a floater. BIG mistake. Back in January, we had a leak and had to replace one of the skimmers. We drained about 1/3 of the pool. However, I'm in the same spot as Gone Fishing. I have my own testing kit but took it to a local store just to test if my numbers were off by a lot. They also tell me I have phosphates but that's another story. I just can't keep chlorine levels in my pool all of a sudden. The store tells me I have to drain the pool. I even bought some of the non-stabilized tablets to see if I could keep the level up while also shocking with cal-hypo. This morning I added 2 gallons of 10% bleach (bought at Walmart pool section which looks to move a lot of inventory). I also know we need to replace our filter cartridges because they're shot. Ordered replacement will arrive Monday. So here's were this pool is at:

Gallons: 27,000
Material: plaster
Filtration: Hayward Blue Haven C520BH, 4 cartridges
Location: Dallas, TX
Outside temp: 96
Water Temp: 82
Free Chlorine: 0.4
PH: 7.5
Alkalinity: 86.0 (says adjusted), my reading is 150
CH: 264
Stabilizer: 170 (!)
Water Clarity: It's clear until I add the cal-hypo shock

So, help me too!!! Is our only option to drain more water? I've got no visible algae and the water is clear (but I'm afraid theirs invisible danger lurking).
I VOW NEVER TO RETURN TO THE DARK SIDE AND USE THOSE BLASTED TABLETS!!!

 

[setsailsoon]

29,

Welcome back! How did you test to get CYA 170? What test kit do you have? If it's a recommended TF 100 or Taylor K 2006 then it looks like you need to drain or water exchange... the price you pay for using tablets.

Chris

 

[Oldpool4629]

I used the Taylor K100 but I've ordered a new kit just in case. When you say WATER EXCHANGE, do you mean pulling water out through the pump (I have a way to do that since I don't have an overflow set up on my pool) and then add fresh water at the same time? I'm getting ready to go out of town in 5 days and with the single hose I have in my backyard, I'm afraid I can't drain 50%+ and then start filling without being here. The last time we drained about 1/4 - 1/3 in Jan. for a repair, it took 4 - 5 days to fill!

 

[setsailsoon]

I used the Taylor K100 but I've ordered a new kit just in case. When you say WATER EXCHANGE, do you mean pulling water out through the pump (I have a way to do that since I don't have an overflow set up on my pool) and then add fresh water at the same time? I'm getting ready to go out of town in 5 days and with the single hose I have in my backyard, I'm afraid I can't drain 50%+ and then start filling without being here. The last time we drained about 1/4 - 1/3 in Jan. for a repair, it took 4 - 5 days to fill!

29,

Yes, that's exactly what I mean. In many parts of the country we have a high water table that can float a pool structure or at least add stress. Here in Florida and even south of you in Houston have this issue. If you're not sure it's always a safe way to go. You can check out details here and if you have any questions ask here. With your large pool I can see that it may take quite a while and maybe be less necessary. I'll ask @mknauss to chime in as he know a lot more than I do about the technique. Several experts on this can help.

Chris

 

[mknauss]

When you return from your trip, then assess how you want to exchange some water. Sounds like your source is very low rate. Would be nice to see if that can be increased somehow.

 

[Oldpool4629]

We live in a house built in 1964 that was remodeled in 2014-15. In the infinite wisdom of some plumber the flipper hired, they updated the plumbing in all the walls and forgot to deal with the two spigots in the back yard so no water led to them. We had to hire a plumber to add a spigot off the master bathroom wall that would give me water to the backyard/pool. Otherwise I have to run connecting hoses from the front yard to the back. Anyway, it’s a rough go. I spent a good 6 hours yesterday emptying water while hosing in fresh. We had a huge storm and the water level was high enough I could empty 4” before I had to start replacing. I’m learning more about chemistry and pools than I ever thought I wanted to know! I appreciate y’all giving me direction. I will post back with some numbers once I get back!

 

[Oldpool4629]

Merged threads - TFP mod

I've followed this forum for that last few years and really enjoy the wealth of knowledge I can pick up. For the first 2 years, I followed the BBB method. However, due to long trips and then family illness, I turned to pucks in a floater for the last year or so to manage the chlorination (oh, how I regret that now). Anyway, I had posted a few days ago, that I have very high reading on my CYA and keeping chlorine levels has been near impossible. I went to my local pool store that I prefer over Leslie's (since they are always pushing high phosphates). They tested my water so I could compare with my results. Now, the only difference from what I was getting is that they "adjust" alkalinity for the high stabilizer number. Not sure what y'all think of that. So here's what I got followed by the store numbers after the dash (BTW pool is 27,000 Gallons, plaster, cartridge filtration Hayward C520BH, new Taylor 2005 test kit, in Dallas, TX, water temp is about 80 degrees right now).

FC = .5 - .4
TC = .5 - .6
PH = 7.4 - 7.5
CH = 300 - 264
CYA = 170 - 178
Borate = I didn't measure - 5
Iron = I don't measure - .01
Copper = I don't measure - .01

After reading numerous post here, I've tried a number of things. First of all, I nixed the floater with the pucks. I added NST (4) in my skimmer although I didn't see any movement in my chlorination. For 3 days, I emptied water through my pool pump (I have a spigot attachment there since my pool doesn't have an overflow and it's the simplest way to evacuate water when the pool is too full after heavy rains) and I put fresh water in through a garden hose. I just read several posts about this and I'm not sure if what I've done will amount to much. Yesterday, I tried to raise my FC to something that might resemble sanitation. I used 4 gallons of 10% sodium hypochlorite so that go it to FC of 10. Today, the FC & TC color are somewhere between the 7.5 and 10 range, PH is 7.8, TA is 150 (no adjustment), CH is 300, CYA is still over 100 although the level has moved up from the last two days. My water has been and still remains clear with no algae visible anywhere. We also have replaced our filter cartridges (which were shot) and replaced our PoolRx in the pump basket.

How should I proceed? Should I invest in a submersible pump or rent one and add fresh water? I'm concerned with emptying the pool considerably since it's over 90 degrees here already and I only have on water spigot in my back yard. I could attempt to run another from the front yard but that might take 2-3 100' hoses! Should I lower my TA? The pool store guy tells me I should leave it high to compensate for the high CYA. I'm considering taking a sample in to the store in the next few days to get a more accurate CYA reading since my home kit doesn't really tell me specifically where over 100 I'm at.

In advance, I really appreciate all of you who take the time to help one another. I only hope my experience might help someone else through a similar situation or avoid it all together!

 

[jb]

Hi oldpool4639. Not much help here other to say I am going through the same thing a few miles North of you in Plano. I drained yesterday and am filling today with the clouds and rain today it seems I picked a good time. You could just wait until the next big rain event then do it couldn't you? Or it might be crazy, but if you are worried about the plaster drying out in the sun, could you not just put an old style oscillating sprinkler in the pool and run it to keep the plaster wet/cool?

 

[Dtkokay]

You need to get your CYA down to 50 or less, so it's time to drain water or do a water exchange.

 

[Rossterman]

Get a harbor freight sump pump and 1 1/2 discharge hose. Drain as much from the pool as possible (if you’ve verified there is no risk of the pool popping out of the ground from the water table. At the minimum you need 3/4 of the pool but 7/8 would be ideal. Refill with water, throw that puck feeder in the trash can, adjust chemicals get back to the trusted tfp method.

BTW, the draining while filling is very inefficient at removing CYA. Youd be better off putting a tarp in the pool to keep water separated as best you could from filling and draining sode if your in an area where the total drain method can’t be done safely.

 

[duraleigh]

How should I proceed?

1. Get liquid chlorine in your pool.....NOW! Bring your FC up to around 6 ppm and keep it there. If you don't, your pool will soon be green

2. Make a decision to learn what we teach and stay OUT OF THE POOL STORE or continue with the pool store for more of the bad advice you have already been given. Seriously, we can help but pool store testing and pool store advice IS NOT taken seriously by TFP.....it's a waste of time to even post it.

3. If you decide to stay with TFP (I don't think you have yet) you should start by reading "The "ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry" up in Pool School

4. You have thrown a bunch of chemistry (no doubt from pool store's advice) That is unnecessary and confuses the issue of maintaining your pool. Stop doing that.

5. How did you test CYA and get a result of 170. Did you do a dilution test?

 

[Oldpool4629]

Thanks for your replies so far. Duraleigh, the only reason I have gone to the pool store at all is to cross check my results since they have those "fancy" testing machines. Obviously, their advice has been a load of crud in the past.

1. I have done the liquid chlorine yesterday and am now sitting around 8. Sometimes the color scale is a little hard to tell. I am now testing my water daily.
2. If I'm reading correctly, I should not ever even rely on pool store testing results from their machines. That's fine, one less trip!
3. I will re-read the ABC's. I VOW NOT TO GO BACK TO ANY DIFFERENT METHOD.
4. Trying to figure out how drain my pool since it's so hot here and I'm afraid to leave the plaster exposed so long.
5. I tested my own CYA with my Taylor 2005. Filled the squeeze bottle to the 7mL mark and topped it with the CYA reagent to the 14mL, shook it 30 secs, added drops until the black dot disappeared. This got me about 1/2 up to the 100 mark (no reading marks in that area of the test tube so I'm guessing a bit). Is there a better way?

 

[mknauss]

If you wish, do the dilute method for CYA testing.
100 is the limit of the CYA test, so you have to do a diluted test. Mix 50% pool water with 50% tap water. Use this mixed sample as your test water. Multiply the result by 2 for your CYA level.

I suspect you need to exchange a lot of water.

Draining - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[duraleigh]

is to cross check my results since they have those "fancy" testing machines. Obviously, their advice has been a load of crud in the past.

those "fancy" machines are to sell you stuff and keep the pool store in business. Stay out of the pool store.

OK, if you are with us, let's go to work. Got your FC up......that was step #1 and a big one so your pool stays clear.

Now, let's get a reasonably accurate CYA test by using the dilution method Marty talks about above. It probably won't be the same as your test before but post it up and we'll see.

 

[Oldpool4629]

Just did the diluted test. I got 160 (80 x 2)

 

[mknauss]

Not as bad as I figured. At least a 75% water exchange is warranted.

 

[duraleigh]

Cool. So I would plan on draining half or a little more of your pool by using the exchange method. You find a method to drain your pool and fill at the same rate so the water never goes down.....you simply exchange old pool water with new CYA-free water.

The idea is to place a drain hose at one end of the pool within a foot or so of the surface (warmest water). The new (colder) water will come into the pool by submerging a hose in the deep end. Does that make sense to this point?

 

[Oldpool4629]

Alright, then. Looks like we have a plan. I looked at the threads that discuss pumping water out so I will look at ordering a submersible pump today so I can get my ducks in a row. Going out of town a few days so I'm going to probably have to wait to get this done next week (and however many days it takes to achieve this) and in the meantime I need to keep my FC up around 6. I will put the pump in the shallow end maybe hanging off something to keep it about a foot from the surface and put my fresh water house into the deep end all the way at the bottom. Did I understand this correctly?

Thanks again, y'all! I know once I get this right, this pool should become an easier routine.

 

[duraleigh]

I know once I get this right, this pool should become an easier routine.

Heck, it can even be fun!!

You have grasped the concept of the exchange perfectly. A handy number to remember is a typical garden hose will supply you 5-7 gpm a minute or about 300-400 per hour. If you match up your drain hose to that incoming flow, Your plaster will never uncover and you should be able to do the exchange over several days, depending on how long you run the hose. Are you on city water? Do you know the rate/1000 gallons?

So, keep your FC up as you say you will do and check back in when you are ready to do the exchange.......we'll all help.

 

[Oldpool4629]

Heck, it can even be fun!!

You have grasped the concept of the exchange perfectly. A handy number to remember is a typical garden hose will supply you 5-7 gpm a minute or about 300-400 per hour. If you match up your drain hose to that incoming flow, Your plaster will never uncover and you should be able to do the exchange over several days, depending on how long you run the hose. Are you on city water? Do you know the rate/1000 gallons?

So, keep your FC up as you say you will do and check back in when you are ready to do the exchange.......we'll all help.

I am on city water. I may have to call and let them know I'm having to refill a pool. I think I read somewhere that I should let them know.