We made it to gunite... finally!

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There needs to be at least a 3 inch gap between the rebar and the walls and floor to allow for adequate encapsulation of the rebar by the shotcrete/gunite. Make sure the rebar is adequately away from the surfaces and forms.

I'm curious how this is going to work when they go to flash coat the walls with gunite to buy us some time to finish the rest of the rebar and plumbing so we can actually get to gunite.

If we're talking a 1 inch thick flashcoat, well on most walls, we've had a ton of cave ins several feet deep so it'll be a non issue there... but for the walls that are largely intact, that might mean the rebar is much closer to the flash coat than 3-4 inches. Does the thickness of the flash coat count toward that 3-4 inch encapsulation recommendation?

The other issue I've run into is the builder refuses to use chairs... they say 1/2" rebar is too heavy for any chair to actually hold. Is that true?

 

[ajw22]

Does the thickness of the flash coat count toward that 3-4 inch encapsulation recommendation?

Yes.

The other issue I've run into is the builder refuses to use chairs... they say 1/2" rebar is too heavy for any chair to actually hold. Is that true?

No.

They are too cheap to buy the right chairs.

Think about it. If the chair can support the weight of men walking on it it can support the weight of 1/2 inch rebar.

Hercules 3 in. Rebar Chair (100-Pack) 912 - The Home Depot

Visit The Home Depot to buy Hercules 3 in. Rebar Chair (100-Pack) 912

www.homedepot.com

 

[ajw22]

 

[JamesW]

Does the thickness of the flash coat count toward that 3-4 inch encapsulation recommendation?

I would say no.

The gunite need to be placed with velocity/compaction in a single application.

 

[ajw22]

The gunite flash coat should be a thin layer, maybe 1/8 inch thick, and hardly count for the required wall thickness.

 

[ajw22]

Gunite delay --> "Flashing" a pool?

We have a delay while awaiting gunite. The PB had the pool flashed with gunite or concrete. Anything I should know? Will this affect the quality of the gunite when it's eventually poured?

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[sll0037]

Yes.



No.

They are too cheap to buy the right chairs.

Think about it. If the chair can support the weight of men walking on it it can support the weight of 1/2 inch rebar.

Hercules 3 in. Rebar Chair (100-Pack) 912 - The Home Depot

Visit The Home Depot to buy Hercules 3 in. Rebar Chair (100-Pack) 912

www.homedepot.com

Their argument was that it would sink in the clay soil we have here, but it sounded pretty bogus to me. At one point, he said he'd put chairs in, they they reverted to saying "they'd cut more stone or bricks" to prop it up some more.

 

[ajw22]

Their argument was that it would sink in the clay soil we have here, but it sounded pretty bogus to me. At one point, he said he'd put chairs in, they they reverted to saying "they'd cut more stone or bricks" to prop it up some more.

I would tell him I don't care how you raise the rebar off the ground as long as it measures at least 3 inches.

 

[sll0037]

Gunite delay --> "Flashing" a pool?

We have a delay while awaiting gunite. The PB had the pool flashed with gunite or concrete. Anything I should know? Will this affect the quality of the gunite when it's eventually poured?

www.troublefreepool.com

This is a huge help. Thank you. I'd done some searches to look for proper forming of walls, but I hadn't looked for flashing yet.

In the case above, it looks like they did it prior to rebar, so we'll see how they do it with the rebar already in.

There is an outside chance it gets done today... Otherwise my best guess would be next week.

 

[sll0037]

I would tell him I don't care how you raise the rebar off the ground as long as it measures at least 3 inches.

I told him that exactly and he agreed, but a few days later he changed his mind which is rather annoying.

I even took a tape measure out and measured a brick and asked the builder how we could expect it to raise the rebar 3"+ if the brick is only 2.5" tall and we know it'll sink a little in the clay.

I may just go buy the Dang chairs myself and give them to the rebar crew.

 

[Newdude]

how we could expect it to raise the rebar 3"+ if the brick is only 2.5" tall and we know it'll sink a little in the clay.

Turn the 3 5/8ths wide brick on its side.

Or if cutting larger pavers into chairs, cut them wider and lay them on their side.

 

[sll0037]

Turn the 3 5/8ths wide brick on its side.

Or if cutting larger pavers into chairs, cut them wider and lay them on their side.

This was the problem, the bricks were cut too inconsistently to result in any sort of remotely uniform spacing.

Maybe it's just me, but chairs just seems way easier and more efficient.

 

[JamesW]

Their argument was that it would sink in the clay soil we have here, but it sounded pretty bogus to me.

You have to put in enough quantity and the base needs to have enough surface area.

Basically the amount of ground penetration depends on the pressure per square inch that the ground can support and then you keep the pressure below that.

A sand base is added for softer soils and sand where the chair can sink.

By increasing the area, the chair should not sink.

https://grip-rite.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Grip-Rite-Prolok-Rebar-and-Mesh-Chairs-Brochure.pdf

A 4" diameter gives you about 12.5 square inches.

If a 200 pound person walks on the rebar, the pressure will be 16 psi.

ProLok Hi-Chair, Tilt-Up Chairs and Bar and Mesh - Grip-Rite

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grip-rite.com

 

[sll0037]

Welp... that's a wrap for today.

They shored up the main "problem wall" as best they could and Monday the gunite crew will come out to flash coat the walls.

The project manager was talking like he might only flash coat that main wall, even after I told him we should probably be cautious and flash coat all the walls. I'll have to reinforce my position this weekend to see if he'll follow my advice and do all the walls. He also mentioned the flash coat will be at least two inches thick, which concerns me a bit for the walls that haven't lost too much dirt. That'll put the flash coat within an inch of the rebar in most places if we're assuming there is a 3 inch gap there now.

It's a non factor on the wall(s) that have lost several feet of dirt.

I'll keep my fingers crossed and hope for the best.

Good news is my Dolphin E70 came in today... another pool goody to store until this is all done.

 

[AQUA~HOLICS]

Picture shows #3 bar closest to dirt and #4 bar on top of that, all being held in place by chairs.

 

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Picture shows #3 bar closest to dirt and #4 bar on top of that, all being held in place by chairs.View attachment 543902

It looks like what you have there is concrete dobbies. Is that right?

I wonder where I could source some of those easily and quickly here.

 

[AQUA~HOLICS]

Yes they are, big box stores have them in the 3” size.

 

[sll0037]

How important is this install detail for the pool main drain and spa main drain specific to the hydrostatic valve and the perforated tube being about 1' deep and filled with gravel?

I've been having some ground water seep into my deep end... enough to have to turn on the sump pump for about 5 minutes a few times per day to ensure it doesn't fill enough to go over the rebar, so I want to ensure my builder doesn't miss or skip an important detail here.

 

[ajw22]

specific to the hydrostatic valve and the perforated tube being about 1' deep and filled with gravel?

I am not sure what you are asking.

The collection tube let's the hydrostatic rain operate optimally and open when there is water pressure coming from the ground greater then what is in the pool.

 

[sll0037]

I am not sure what you are asking.

The collection tube let's the hydrostatic rain operate optimally and open when there is water pressure coming from the ground greater then what is in the pool.

The importance of the collection tube is what I’m asking.

When the plumbers stubbed out the main drains, there was no work done relative to the collection tube.

They’re coming back out today so if I need to ensure this is done, I’d like to emphasize it to them today.