Waxahachie, TX Owner Build - A race to beat the baby!

[badcrc]

Jamie-

I found one pipe i didnt check for drainage only buried 1" under the grass. Its all the way in back, however Im putting palm trees. Even though it doesn't freeze in Texas you might plant palm trees. This is very feasible since where you live. That said if your getting the big boys it will be bob cat time, when the pipes are buried 1.5 less likely to break. Anyhow sounds like your keeping a close eye. One got by me I'm not sure how

Thanks, Kim! Once I finally figure out these small hurdles, the answer seems so obvious in retrospect. These are definitely things that show how new I am to all of this and which would have been avoidable problems if using a PB, because of course they know the right way to do things from the start. This is similar to my not knowing at first how to properly pressurize the system by bleeding off air from the filter until it is all gone, which caused some initial pressure issues way back, but the problem got solved once the proper procedure was explained to me. So I'm just grateful that I was able to figure this latest issue out, without having to continue to worry about a plumbing leak who-knows-where under my concrete deck!

Hopefully people following this thread can learn with me as I go along. There are so many little details to know!

 

[Casey]

I had to go back several pages to get a glance at your pool. It looks great!

 

[twinkiesmommy2009]

Yea for divine intervention! We knew you'd figure it out!


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[JamieP]

Thank you, everyone. This is definitely a big load off.

Now that I've confirmed I'm ok, do I need to keep the pressure at 30 or can I bring it down a little? Any recommended numbers? Thanks!

 

[bdavis466]

30 won't hurt anything so there is no need to mess with it. Leave it as is and only check the gauge once per hour now

 

[JamieP]

30 won't hurt anything so there is no need to mess with it. Leave it as is and only check the gauge once per hour now

Haha! Yes, I feel very liberated now from my obsession of checking the filter gauge. (Although I did just check it again after several hours and all remains well. )

 

[JamieP]

*Sigh* My victory seems to have been short lived. :-( I've lost 1 psi since yesterday, and there's no telling why. It seems to appear by morning. Do I really need to check each valve over a full 24 hours? Even if I isolated the line that was causing the loss, I'm really not prepared to tear up my deck looking for a drip that would cause such a slow leak. It seems like it would be impossible to find anyway, if there really was a leak.

Any words of wisdoms for me?

 

[bmoreswim]

My thoughts - though maybe completely wrong...

PSI goes down about 1 for every 10 degrees of temperature drop. Though underground portions of pipe wouldn't vary in temp much at all and above ground would vary almost directly with air temp. So the effect would certainly be muted. And 1 PSI drop over 24 hours seems insignificant - again I could be very wrong. I may be just trying to make you feel better at the expense of reality...

 

[JamieP]

My thoughts - though maybe completely wrong...

PSI goes down about 1 for every 10 degrees of temperature drop. Though underground portions of pipe wouldn't vary in temp much at all and above ground would vary almost directly with air temp. So the effect would certainly be muted. And 1 PSI drop over 24 hours seems insignificant - again I could be very wrong. I may be just trying to make you feel better at the expense of reality...

Thanks bmoreswim. I thought about the temperature being a factor, but the pressure doesn't come back up later in the day, so I'm not sure about that being the reason. Although I'm perfectly happy to be made to feel better I don't want to deny reality either. It's just that I can't imagine how I would track this down if it were under ground, even if I wanted to.

I really do want to hear the opinions of others though. How big of a deal is this? I know it's not ideal. The good news is that we have rain coming, so if I decide to hold pressure on each valve for 24 hours at a time, I should have good stretch of days to do it without any work happening on the pool.

 

[bmoreswim]

My experience was with a PB who didn't pressure test our plumbing. I was new to it all and didn't inquire (ignorance is bliss). I joked some time ago that his theory was that pressure testing is for chumps.

I fully agree about getting comfortable with what's going on.

 

[WASP]

Considering that we are dealing with plastic pipe and valves that are not containing hazardous substances, it's probably safe to say that you do not have anything to worry about.

 

[needsajet]

Hi Jamie - I think you're in good shape re: plumbing, and also totally understand your desire for peace of mind!

If you'd like additional references, there are testing standards online for PVC pipe systems. Explanation for very slow pressure loss includes air from the small remaining bubbles dissolving into the water, minor expansion of the plastic, and tiny losses across valve seals. From what I've read, you pass according to the testing standards I found . Some standards are based on the amount of make-up water required to get the same test pressure vs. the total volume of the system. I mention this because zero loss for a long period of time is unlikely to occur. Other standards I found suggest 2 hours duration at 150% of your design operating pressure.

I feel OK jumping in on this because of experience with PVC irrigation systems, where pressure, volume and miles of pipe are higher. For that work, an overnight hydrostatic test with a loss of less than 1 or 2 PSI always worked fine for me, with lines charged to 50 to 100 PSI. Most common leaks in that work were from threaded fittings. Other leaks I've heard about were from grossly inadequate work (e.g. forgot to glue it, or cement on only half the circumference) or cracked pipes. In these latter cases, pressure loss was fast (seconds or minutes). I haven't experienced any long term leaks from PVC plumbing. There's one underground leak I remember very well, that was caused by an excavator damaging a seldom used pipeline (discovered later at the worst possible time of course!)

Here's a couple of links that sum it up well:
Testing
Testing and Commissioning for PVC Pressure Pipe - Vinidex

 

[JamieP]

Hi Jamie - I think you're in good shape re: plumbing, and also totally understand your desire for peace of mind!

If you'd like additional references, there are testing standards online for PVC pipe systems. Explanation for very slow pressure loss includes air from the small remaining bubbles dissolving into the water, minor expansion of the plastic, and tiny losses across valve seals. From what I've read, you pass according to the testing standards I found . Some standards are based on the amount of make-up water required to get the same test pressure vs. the total volume of the system. I mention this because zero loss for a long period of time is unlikely to occur. Other standards I found suggest 2 hours duration at 150% of your design operating pressure.

I feel OK jumping in on this because of experience with PVC irrigation systems, where pressure, volume and miles of pipe are higher. For that work, an overnight hydrostatic test with a loss of less than 1 or 2 PSI always worked fine for me, with lines charged to 50 to 100 PSI. Most common leaks in that work were from threaded fittings. Other leaks I've heard about were from grossly inadequate work (e.g. forgot to glue it, or cement on only half the circumference) or cracked pipes. In these latter cases, pressure loss was fast (seconds or minutes). I haven't experienced any long term leaks from PVC plumbing. There's one underground leak I remember very well, that was caused by an excavator damaging a seldom used pipeline (discovered later at the worst possible time of course!)

Here's a couple of links that sum it up well:
Testing
Testing and Commissioning for PVC Pressure Pipe - Vinidex

Thanks, needsajet! At this point I'm happy to take reassurance from where ever I can get it, but when it comes as well researched and knowledgable as yours, then I'm jumping for joy! I don't know if you had all that in you memory banks already, or looked it up just for me, but I sincerely appreciate your taking the time to chime in. Thank you, too, for the links. I will check them out.

 

[needsajet]

Anything for a fellow expat Canuck! Enjoying this thread very much.

 

[bdavis466]

The pressure loss was well within the margin or error on the pressure gauge. You also nee to remember that the pool equipment isn't necessarily high precision/tight tolerance type stuff. If there was an issue with your underground plumbing, the loss would be much more profound.

This is exactly why I never recommend installing the equipment at the time of rough plumbing. If you are losing pressure from anywhere, its more than likely at the equipment pad.

 

[JamieP]

Anything for a fellow expat Canuck! Enjoying this thread very much.

Thanks!

The pressure loss was well within the margin or error on the pressure gauge. You also nee to remember that the pool equipment isn't necessarily high precision/tight tolerance type stuff. If there was an issue with your underground plumbing, the loss would be much more profound.

This is exactly why I never recommend installing the equipment at the time of rough plumbing. If you are losing pressure from anywhere, its more than likely at the equipment pad.

Thanks Brian. I'm trying to relax and get past this as there really isn't much I can do about it anyway. But the pressure continues to drop about 1 psi per day, so I don't know if that falls under margin of error or not. All I can imagine is a drip somewhere inaccessible that is causing this very slow psi drop, but you're probably right that the issue is something at the pad. My guess is the pressure relief valve or the spigot on top of my pump. We had rain last night so it's hard to know for sure by checking again, but when I've checked after a long stretch of dry, warm days, there has still been wetness inside both of them. Not enough to show an active drip, but I would think water would evaporate after enough time if they were completely sealed.

 

[Helen203]

My experience was with a PB who didn't pressure test our plumbing. I was new to it all and didn't inquire (ignorance is bliss). I joked some time ago that his theory was that pressure testing is for chumps.
I fully agree about getting comfortable with what's going on.

Wouldn't it be great if life gave us do-overs???

 

[JamieP]

So, do you want to hear about something else crazy that happened recently, but providentially was discovered and shouldn't be a problem? Check this out...



That is my leaking salt cell that is being replaced under warranty all packed up and ready to ship out. The replacement has arrived already (fortunately), so the crazy thing I'm going to point out shouldn't be a problem.

Do you see how the plug on the cord has been cut and the wires exposed on the remaining portion? Well, I wasn't the one who did that! I happened to have my electrical company out last week or so to wire the antenna for my Screen Logic at the panel for me. I happened to mention that I needed to remove the salt cell and asked if it was pretty straightforward (even though Matt had told me how I should expect to find it plugged in.) So the guy looks and says, "Let me check something," and he opens up the panel to find my salt cell's plug cut off and the power center's plug cut off, both sitting in the bottom of the panel box, and the cords spliced together. "Who did this?" he asked. "Your guys, I guess," I replied. "I haven't been in the panel since they left." He was incredulous to find the salt cell wired this way and just kept shaking his head, wondering why they would have cut both cords that should have just plugged into each other. He called his boss who was ticked to hear what had happened, and they were concerned about how this would affect my warranty claim on the salt cell since I was required to return the cell and the cord would obviously have been cut. Fortunately, though, my new salt cell was already on its way, and the claim was regarding a leak and not the electricity. I'm just very glad this was discovered before I tried to install the new salt cell and found I had nowhere to plug it in! The electrical company is providing me with a new cord that will allow the salt cell to plug into the power center, so I should be fine on that front too. It will be interesting to see if Pentair comments on the cut cord when the old cell gets to them. On the advice of the electrical boss (whose company I had listed as the installers for the warranty claim since they were the ones to complete installation) I am not including the plug end with the return. I guess he thinks it will leave more to Pentair's imagination and perhaps won't make them look as bad?

This boss who let me know they would be providing the new cord for the power center said that the electricians who installed the salt cell couldn't get it to plug in properly and so cut it and sliced it the way they did. I can't imagine how they couldn't get the plugs to fit, but who knows. I'm guessing something, probably the cord to my salt cell, got cut by mistake, and the only thing they could do was cut and splice the other end and figured what I didn't know wouldn't hurt me. Crazy, huh?!

 

[twinkiesmommy2009]

Wow! That's insane! Everything for a reason I guess but I would not have been happy to find out some other way. I guess it takes the sting out when you were already sending it back and had the replacement.


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[kimkats]

Unreal! I guess everything happens for a reason.

Kim