Waxahachie, TX Owner Build - A race to beat the baby!

[bdavis466]

Road base works well and is relatively cheap. You can put anything in that area but if its not compacted, you will have issues.

4"of sand seems like a lot, road base is less expensive and compacts (and stays compacted) much better.

 

[JamieP]

That's good to know. What is the proper way to compact road base? Also, can the concrete be poured directly on top, or does there need to be something in between?

Since I'm asking, is there something better than road base to use, without getting way more expensive?

 

[bdavis466]

Adding the road base in 1-2" lifts and compacting with water and a vibrating plate compactor. 1-2" of compacted sand on top of the base for the final level and to fill any small voids.

This is the exact application for road base, nearly anything else is more expensive.

 

[JamieP]

Adding the road base in 1-2" lifts and compacting with water and a vibrating plate compactor. 1-2" of compacted sand on top of the base for the final level and to fill any small voids.

This is the exact application for road base, nearly anything else is more expensive.

Thank you! That gives me something solid to relay to my concrete guy. I'll see what he says.

 

[kimkats]

Jamie your pool is going to be the best built pool in the land!

Kim

 

[And5555]

Hey Jamie,

A few thoughts in catching up with your build:
- electrician does not need to be before concrete. I just got mine done afterward - as long as it's before the pool is filled (also, my city required that the deck be bonded with the pool)
- I asked the same question about mastic of my guys because it seemed easy like caulking. Here's the word I got from my consultant: you could probably do it but it's really tedious and has to be done well (ex: don't get it on the coping). It's also really sticky and not fun to work with. For my pool it was only $216 but the patio didn't go all the way around
- all the guys quoting me were doing road base with the exception of the guy I went with. He did mine with gravel since I have the drainage issue (with the hill). Since gravel doesn't compact much at all, it's better for drainage and didn't cost that much more (like $100 extra per load). They covered the gravel with a white tarp barrier. Anyway, road base was the go to option for contractors around here
- I remember from earlier that you were not going to do the spray deck coating upfront but wait til later instead. The thing I learned today as I went to do my KoolCote was that it's more expensive to do it later since it's not fresh concrete. In my case (got builder pricing), it was $1.85 vs $2.85 per sq ft for new vs existing). In terms of prioritizing what to do now vs later, it might be a good idea to prioritize things that would be more expensive to do later vs now (like getting more concrete and doing spray deck).

Andy

 

[Nursenini]

Just reading all the information and research you have gathered/done really inspires awe for you. I'm pretty handy and fairly smart but I doubt I could have done an owner build by myself. Kim's right. You ARE going to have THE best build!

Makes me me nervous about what I'm going to end up with even though I know I'm using a quality company.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh and I am +1 (or whatever number is next) on the cannonball picture!!

 

[JamieP]

Hey Jamie,

A few thoughts in catching up with your build:
- electrician does not need to be before concrete. I just got mine done afterward - as long as it's before the pool is filled (also, my city required that the deck be bonded with the pool)
- I asked the same question about mastic of my guys because it seemed easy like caulking. Here's the word I got from my consultant: you could probably do it but it's really tedious and has to be done well (ex: don't get it on the coping). It's also really sticky and not fun to work with. For my pool it was only $216 but the patio didn't go all the way around
- all the guys quoting me were doing road base with the exception of the guy I went with. He did mine with gravel since I have the drainage issue (with the hill). Since gravel doesn't compact much at all, it's better for drainage and didn't cost that much more (like $100 extra per load). They covered the gravel with a white tarp barrier. Anyway, road base was the go to option for contractors around here
- I remember from earlier that you were not going to do the spray deck coating upfront but wait til later instead. The thing I learned today as I went to do my KoolCote was that it's more expensive to do it later since it's not fresh concrete. In my case (got builder pricing), it was $1.85 vs $2.85 per sq ft for new vs existing). In terms of prioritizing what to do now vs later, it might be a good idea to prioritize things that would be more expensive to do later vs now (like getting more concrete and doing spray deck).

Andy

Hi Andy! Thanks for the tips. I have a couple of questions...

If electric can happen after concrete, does that mean that the conduit they run from the niches etc has to be long enough to go past where the concrete would end? I'm not sure the amount I have sticking out would be enough and I thought they had to trench around the pool (where concrete will eventually be) to run the wires. That's why I thought electric had to be first.

Who do I look into using for KoolCote? The plaster/tile/coping guy offers spray deck for $2.50/sq ft. I wouldn't mind finding a cooler finish for the concrete for the price you're paying! But I don't know how to track down that kind of contractor. Does your concrete guy do it, or someone else?

Thanks again for your help!

***
I found the KoolCote website and see they are based down your way, although they list Dallas as a service area. I'll have to check them out tomorrow and see what they tell me.

 

[JamieP]

Jamie your pool is going to be the best built pool in the land!

Kim

If it is, I'll hardly be able to take any credit for it! I would never even have considered doing O/B if it weren't for TFP!

Just reading all the information and research you have gathered/done really inspires awe for you. I'm pretty handy and fairly smart but I doubt I could have done an owner build by myself. Kim's right. You ARE going to have THE best build!

Makes me me nervous about what I'm going to end up with even though I know I'm using a quality company.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh and I am +1 (or whatever number is next) on the cannonball picture!!

Denise, you are very sweet. Someone recently said on TFP that just because there are stories of bad PB builds, doesn't mean an O/B will go well. Well, I feel like I have been very blessed with how things have turned out so far. Of course, with the help of all of the generous members on TFP I did my research, but there are so many variables that went our way that I can only be grateful. You will end up with an awesome pool, without the stress of unforeseen things falling on you. That's a major benefit of a signed, detailed contract with a reliable builder, and based on that other recent TFP OK build that your PB did, you've got a solid PB to count on. I'm looking forward to following along on your own exciting pool build adventure!

 

[bmoreswim]

We had about two feet to fill before the decking in some areas. They used gravel and no compaction was needed.

I might suggest using something other than the u-channel frame. To me it looks quite industrial or even temporary. I would recommend something more in keeping with the material to be used for your fence posts to have it blend in. I built a large mounting platform to mount the panel, electric outlet, light switches, autocover switch and hose reel on. I used 4x4 treated posts and 2x10's horizontal between them. They were all stained the same brown as the fence. Mine is quite large though and ended up being used to mount a large LED light junction box on the back ( which I had no reason to know would happen but was the point of making it big - the unknown). I've seen numerous builds where there are various boxes, etc. mounted on house walls around the panel. I also hang a few accessories on the back. Ideally it would be in the shade, but many seem to bake in the sun unfazed though. I may build a little cedar roof structure to cover the equipment to match the pavilion roof.

 

[JamieP]

We had about two feet to fill before the decking in some areas. They used gravel and no compaction was needed.

I might suggest using something other than the u-channel frame. To me it looks quite industrial or even temporary. I would recommend something more in keeping with the material to be used for your fence posts to have it blend in. I built a large mounting platform to mount the panel, electric outlet, light switches, autocover switch and hose reel on. I used 4x4 treated posts and 2x10's horizontal between them. They were all stained the same brown as the fence. Mine is quite large though and ended up being used to mount a large LED light junction box on the back ( which I had no reason to know would happen but was the point of making it big - the unknown). I've seen numerous builds where there are various boxes, etc. mounted on house walls around the panel. I also hang a few accessories on the back. Ideally it would be in the shade, but many seem to bake in the sun unfazed though. I may build a little cedar roof structure to cover the equipment to match the pavilion roof.

Thanks for those helpful points to consider. When you guys used gravel for fill, did they put anything on top before they poured the concrete? Was it any particular kind of gravel? Not needing compaction is appealing! What did they use under the rest of your deck?

My electrician mentioned originally that they could use the u-channel frame, but we could pay them to come out later to move the panel to the fence if we wanted. I just sent an email to find out what that charge would be. Your setup sounds great and I can see how making a stand to match would be nice, but if I factor in the effort to do that compared to having them come out and remount the panel, it might be worth doing the latter.

Of course, if I just did as Brian suggested and had the fence installed first, then all this would be moot! Oh well.

 

[bdavis466]

Jaime, the conduit for the electrical can be run so it is in place and out of the way of your decking. The wires can be pulled later and the panel can be mounted to your fence.

I would still want the gravel, or any fill for that matter, compacted.

 

[bmoreswim]

They used the stone/gravel everywhere. Concrete poured right on top. You can see pics in my thread. No issues so far. In a few areas we made excavations in the gravel to make integral footers for the future pavilion.

Makes sense on the panel setup. U-channel as temporary then onto fence - or fence first. Whichever ends up happening first happens.

 

[needsajet]

I would still want the gravel, or any fill for that matter, compacted.

+1

I know diddly-squat about pools, but I'm originally trained as a structural landscaper, and have done (and lived with) a fair number of slabs. For me, compaction is a necessity. I would do small lifts - never more than 4" and preferably less when using a small walk-behind plate compactor, keep my road base moist but not sloppy while doing it, and run over it at least 3 or 4 passes (in different directions where possible). It's not much extra work to do this.

I'm interested to know from Brian's expertise, but if it was me and not knowing any better, I'd be careful up against the pool with a compactor if the pool concrete was any younger than a couple weeks or more. I also wouldn't go to town with the compactor right on top of my pipes unless they had a bit more cover or were bedded in sand or other fine material.

 

[bdavis466]

Generally, the plate compactors are not all that hard on the pool shell or plumbing. The vibration from them is the primary way that they are able to compact the way that they do. Now the jumping jack compactors are another story. I wouldn't use one of those on top of plumbing and most if not all manufacturers advise against using them to compact backfill behind retaining walls which is basically what the wall of the pool is. Amazing what they can accomplish though.

After about a week, the cured strength of the concrete has risen exponentially and slowly tapers off in the weeks following. Industry standard cure time is 28 days to achieve is rated compressive strength which is typically 3000-3500 PSI but depending on the mix, the pressurized process to apply it (especially with shotcrete), and the applicators technique, can be 5-6000 PSI (or more). I've seen core samples of 4500 PSI shotcrete yield 5500 PSI in less than a months cure time. All this to say, the pool shell is very strong at this point and chances of damage from a plate compactor would be minimal.

Backfilling the plumbing lines with sand to a 2" cover is always a good idea but often overlooked. In one of the local cities near me, its a code requirement and requires a special inspection.

 

[And5555]

Hi Andy! Thanks for the tips. I have a couple of questions...

I found the KoolCote website and see they are based down your way, although they list Dallas as a service area. I'll have to check them out tomorrow and see what they tell me.

Its KoolCote of Texas. I believe they have places all over Texas. Note one big thing that with all of these spray deck companies, they do a bit of a shady thing. They start out with homeowners at like $4 per sq ft or more even though their builder price is half that. They can be talked down, but they'll always try to get as much out of you as they can.

I had two companies that I was getting bids from and made sure they knew that. When the Koolcote guy came in with over $4 per square foot, I told him that it seemed the going rate was less than $2 for new patio - that that's what everybody was paying. He said he had to talk to his pricing manager but got the lower price saying that it was the wholesale price for volume builders. I then asked if there was a cash discount and he said normally yes, but not since I was already getting the lowest rate.

Long story short, expect that they might try to take advantage, but just play hardball and get them competing for sub-$2 pricing. KoolCote has an awesome reputation in Austin though.

one more thing: kind of an annoying thing was that these companies did not want to give me an estimate until the concrete was done so that they could get exact measurements.

 

[JamieP]

Thanks, Andy. That's really helpful and will serve me well with negotiating prices, I'm sure. Is KoolCote and acrylic type product or more like the original KoolDek? I can't say I really know the difference, except from what I've read, the acrylic can hold up better against chipping and is less porous so resists staining. Not sure how much I care in the end if I can get a good price, but I was just curious.

 

[gwegan]

I want to reiterate what Brian said above.

All the rough electrical should be completed before the deck. That means aALL the bond wiring, the bonding grid under the slab and all the conduit. All the trenches should be back filled before the decking

Backfilling the trenches with 2 inches of sand is the best practice.

 

[WASP]

Make sure your inspections are signed off before electrica/plumbing is covered up.

what if you built a short section of fence behind the equipment pad, then you could have the panels mounted where you want them. The rest of the fence can be built later.

 

[And5555]

Thanks, Andy. That's really helpful and will serve me well with negotiating prices, I'm sure. Is KoolCote and acrylic type product or more like the original KoolDek? I can't say I really know the difference, except from what I've read, the acrylic can hold up better against chipping and is less porous so resists staining. Not sure how much I care in the end if I can get a good price, but I was just curious.

KoolCote is the same thing as SunDek. It makes the patio cooler to walk on for the littles so it doesn't scald their feet. I also like the color and texture it adds. KoolCote also does acrylic but I think it costs a little more - not sure how much. For me, with my patio being in direct unshaded Texas sunlight, we wanted to get Koolcote. In the tradition of spending more money though, my wife decided to do our existing back porch to match (not connected) at 2.85 for a cost of $630 so that it would match.