Main pump is VS and I have been running it at 1100. It has three stages, so I’ll set the first to 3400 rpm, then the second to 1100. Thanks! I appreciate all the great advice.
Waterfall woes
- Thread starter Rodex
- Start date
Rod,
Can you set the RPM for each "Stage"? If you can, I'd set the 3450 stage back to 3000.. No big deal either way.
Thanks,
Jim R.
Can you set the RPM for each "Stage"? If you can, I'd set the 3450 stage back to 3000.. No big deal either way.
Thanks,
Jim R.
Welp, after running for a few hours, there is definitely air getting in. Large air gap in the pump. Just swapped the lid for a new one (this is the second time I’ve changed the lid in two years).
No luck, still sucking in air. It’s not nearly as bad as it was before, with all the shaking and all, but it definitely only stays primed at max speed.
I put Saran Wrap on the coupler but it seems to be sucking in air still.
Any idea on how to troubleshoot the pump housing itself? I have changed the drain plugs, changed the lid, all the internal seals like the backplate o-ring and mechanical seal is new. I have 1 PSI pressure at max RPMs, also, which seems weird.
Any idea on how to troubleshoot the pump housing itself? I have changed the drain plugs, changed the lid, all the internal seals like the backplate o-ring and mechanical seal is new. I have 1 PSI pressure at max RPMs, also, which seems weird.
- Sep 1, 2011
- 547
- Pool Size
- 21000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool Universal40
Just as a refresher, what is your current plumbing lineup with respect to your waterfall pump. Could you either provide pictures with pipes labeled or a diagram? I know there were some changes made, andd I'm having a hard time keeping it straight.
Main pump (left) is now connected to the skimmer. Waterfall pump (right) is now connected to the drain.
Attachments
- Sep 1, 2011
- 547
- Pool Size
- 21000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool Universal40
Most likely location for leaks is on glued joints. Since you have a check valve after your pump, if you run your pump and purge all of the air out then turn it off there should be no air in your pump basket. And you should have water standing in your waterfall outfall pipe. Can you access the outfall pipe? in mine its just a PVC pipe under an overhanging rock, so I can reach back in there and see if there is water standing in it.
So:
1. Can you run your pump completely purged of air?
1.a. After the pump is turned off, how long until their is air in the basket?
1.b. How long until it drains completely?
2. Is there water standing in the waterfall pipe outflow
After that we'll see where to go next
So:
1. Can you run your pump completely purged of air?
1.a. After the pump is turned off, how long until their is air in the basket?
1.b. How long until it drains completely?
2. Is there water standing in the waterfall pipe outflow
After that we'll see where to go next
On the main pump, it doesn’t lose prime after I purge the air out at max rpm’s. However, unless it’s at max rpm, it will suck air in from somewhere. I’ve Saran wrapped the incoming joints, but it still does it.
On the waterfall pump, I can never purge it completely of air - there is always a large air gap. However, it does not seem to lose what water level it does have when it’s not running.
- Sep 1, 2011
- 547
- Pool Size
- 21000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool Universal40
in my experience a VS pump will always collect some amount of air under the lid, unless running at max speed. That really confused me when I put mine in, so your not alone there. As long as it will purge out when run at prime/max speed, and otherwise operates as expected I wouldn't worry about it.
Now that's a puzzler.
That first sentence says suction side air leak.
The second sentence says there is no air leak.
I never had much luck with saran wrap, too fiddly and never felt I got a good seal, your mileage may vary.
I assume you've already gone through the Suction Side air leak article. The two things from the article I would focus on is 1. cycle your pump on and off and look for joints or covers/plugs that "spit" when the pump is cycled. And 2. Use your carden hos to maintain a "blanket" of water over a potential leak location. Try to confine it to one joint at a time. check the pump to see if you get a marked decrease in air ingress.
This Video from INYO Pools has some test methods, once again YMMV
If all of that fails, but your waterfall still works when the pump runs, why not live with it? A little air won't hurt your pump since it's designed to run like that as long as it doesn't run dry it should be fine. If it has the potential to run dry thenthis isn't a small leak and should be easier to find.
As a last resort, cut out your plumbing and start over. PVC is (relatively) inexpensive and your time is probably worth more than the cost of the materials. The line from drain to pumps should be good. So start there and build a new run to your pump, making sure to properly prime and cement each joint. One issue I have had when gluing PVC is that the two pieces tend to "push apart" if you don't hold them together until the cement sets (20-45 seconds depending on cement type and temperature)
I’m fine with the waterfall pump operation - it was way worse prior to rebuilding the plumbing.
The main pump is my primary concern. There is a gap that develops in the SWCG cell, and exposes the plates. I suppose I don’t know if that’s an issue, but it seems like it would be. There is also no pressure reading at the DE filter gauge. When it’s on anything less than max, I can see air bubbles getting added to the air gap.
I’ll give the water blanket a shot tomorrow. I haven’t had success with the Saran Wrap except for when it’s a large leak.
- Sep 1, 2011
- 547
- Pool Size
- 21000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool Universal40
Horizontal in the plumbing but the plates are vertical. Not sure the plates being horizontal would make much of a difference as the air gap is quite large.
Attachments
Rod,
Doesn't CircuPool say to install the cell upside down when using a VSP running at a low RPM? Not sure that is true, just something I heard.
Either way, they would be the ones to ask.
Jim R.
Doesn't CircuPool say to install the cell upside down when using a VSP running at a low RPM? Not sure that is true, just something I heard.
Either way, they would be the ones to ask.
Jim R.
- Sep 1, 2011
- 547
- Pool Size
- 21000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool Universal40
On this model, I don't see that in the instructions, however on my Universal40, it said to install the cell with the cord down in order to ensure the plates stay submerged.
@Rodex, I would increase your operating speed until your system operates with the cell mostly free of bubbles.
That would be 3100 rpm…but if I operate it at that speed, what was the point of a VS motor?
- Sep 1, 2011
- 547
- Pool Size
- 21000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool Universal40
I was mostly just thinking as a temporary measure until you find your air leak to prevent damaging your cell.
I blanketed the pump, unions, and all PVC with water. No change. Any thing else I can try?