Water Loss

Casey

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I'm going to say that the skimmer is not reassembled correctly and the rubber gasket is not seated properly. If the screw can not be tightened down anymore, they probably put it back together off kilter and its causing the leak. Call them back and tell them you lost your water to the bottom of the skimmer and it needs reassembled. It's more than likely a twisted gasket/seal.

Good luck with it and keep us posted. And welcome to TFP.
 
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Jcsmith9

Well-known member
Feb 24, 2022
78
Birmingham/Alabama
Hey everyone update. Still very concerned and frustrated. They came out Friday and said we were losing water due to a hole in the light fixture where the light sits. They did show us the hole and patched it with putty. As of yesterday morning the pool was refilled again and now water level is dropping once again. Contacted them yesterday to tell them we continue to lose water and they told us they will have someone out Monday and that they are 99% sure it’s a simple light repair. All we had done was the bottom completely skim coated with vermiculite, hydrostatic relief valve replaced in the main drain and a new liner put in. I don’t understand.
 

JoyfulNoise

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Did you take any pictures of what they previously repaired? I’m not sure what you mean by them patching a hole in the light niche?

Did they check the hydrostatic valve to make sure it was properly sealed and closed?

Is the water draining down to the light?

Did they realign the skimmer face plate and make sure the rubber seal is properly in place?
 

Jcsmith9

Well-known member
Feb 24, 2022
78
Birmingham/Alabama
They said there was a hole where the chord of the light was removed. Patched it with putty. They never checked any of the items you mentioned. When they come tomorrow I’ll be sure to ask them to check them. As of this morning water is below skimmer plate now.
 

JoyfulNoise

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So in the back of the light niche (the plastic housing that holds the light receptacle) is normally an opening that is connected to electrical conduit which then runs up to the surface. That’s how the wire for the light bulb gets to the equipment pad. When the pool is built and the light niche placed in the pool structure, that conduit is all glued together and forms a sealed pipe. Sometimes those glued seals can crack with age or if they are mistreated but it’s somewhat rare for the conduit to just start leaking. It’s not impossible for it to develop a leak and one can certainly do a dye test underwater to see if there is a gross leak through the wire conduit but it tends to be the thing that gets blamed all the time and sealed with putty rather than actually tracking down the cause of the leak. I’m not trying to make your pool company out to be the bad guys but, unless you sit on them and watch everything they’re doing and tell them the things you want fixed, their approach is always going to be to do the least amount of work possible and hope that it patches the problem long enough for them to walk away. It’s the just the general attitude of most pool companies.

So when they show up again you need to meet with whoever gets there BEFORE they start working and tell them all the things you want checked. Sometimes you have to stand pool side and literally point to all of the problems you see. You shouldn’t have to do that but unfortunately you do. And you should also ask to be shown the leak when it is located as well as shown all the things they open up and fix and be ready to take pictures of the work that was done. Documentation is key. And you need to be there and be present (be a pest) so that they know they are being watched. It’s childish, but you have to play the game because otherwise they will take advantage.
 
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Casey

TFP Expert
Gold Supporter
LifeTime Supporter
Apr 16, 2007
12,787
SW PA
Pool Size
17000
Surface
Fiberglass
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Jandy Aquapure 1400
If the water stops at the skimmer after they puttied the light niche why would it still leak after they filled it. Is the water still leaking toward the light or did it stop? Because if it's the light, you'd still be losing water because the light is positioned lower than the skimmer right?

I'm betting it's the skimmer since it keeps stopping at the skimmer.
 

Jcsmith9

Well-known member
Feb 24, 2022
78
Birmingham/Alabama
So in the back of the light niche (the plastic housing that holds the light receptacle) is normally an opening that is connected to electrical conduit which then runs up to the surface. That’s how the wire for the light bulb gets to the equipment pad. When the pool is built and the light niche placed in the pool structure, that conduit is all glued together and forms a sealed pipe. Sometimes those glued seals can crack with age or if they are mistreated but it’s somewhat rare for the conduit to just start leaking. It’s not impossible for it to develop a leak and one can certainly do a dye test underwater to see if there is a gross leak through the wire conduit but it tends to be the thing that gets blamed all the time and sealed with putty rather than actually tracking down the cause of the leak. I’m not trying to make your pool company out to be the bad guys but, unless you sit on them and watch everything they’re doing and tell them the things you want fixed, their approach is always going to be to do the least amount of work possible and hope that it patches the problem long enough for them to walk away. It’s the just the general attitude of most pool companies.

So when they show up again you need to meet with whoever gets there BEFORE they start working and tell them all the things you want checked. Sometimes you have to stand pool side and literally point to all of the problems you see. You shouldn’t have to do that but unfortunately you do. And you should also ask to be shown the leak when it is located as well as shown all the things they open up and fix and be ready to take pictures of the work that was done. Documentation is key. And you need to be there and be present (be a pest) so that they know they are being watched. It’s childish, but you have to play the game because otherwise they
So in the back of the light niche (the plastic housing that holds the light receptacle) is normally an opening that is connected to electrical conduit which then runs up to the surface. That’s how the wire for the light bulb gets to the equipment pad. When the pool is built and the light niche placed in the pool structure, that conduit is all glued together and forms a sealed pipe. Sometimes those glued seals can crack with age or if they are mistreated but it’s somewhat rare for the conduit to just start leaking. It’s not impossible for it to develop a leak and one can certainly do a dye test underwater to see if there is a gross leak through the wire conduit but it tends to be the thing that gets blamed all the time and sealed with putty rather than actually tracking down the cause of the leak. I’m not trying to make your pool company out to be the bad guys but, unless you sit on them and watch everything they’re doing and tell them the things you want fixed, their approach is always going to be to do the least amount of work possible and hope that it patches the problem long enough for them to walk away. It’s the just the general attitude of most pool companies.

So when they show up again you need to meet with whoever gets there BEFORE they start working and tell them all the things you want checked. Sometimes you have to stand pool side and literally point to all of the problems you see. You shouldn’t have to do that but unfortunately you do. And you should also ask to be shown the leak when it is located as well as shown all the things they open up and fix and be ready to take pictures of the work that was done. Documentation is key. And you need to be there and be present (be a pest) so that they know they are being watched. It’s childish, but you have to play the game because otherwise they will take advantage.
Great advice. They called this morning saying at this point don’t add any more water to the pool and let’s see where the water stops if it stops at the light where they said the leak was coming from. We will experience a couple 80 degree days and the water is currently at the returns so still probably will take a few days to drain down that low. My water will end up turning green having to wait on this. I checked this morning and the light is not fully flush against the liner. In other words one side is showing an opening? I don’t understand how that even happened but it is currently exposed. Wonder if that could be a cause. Guy said he patched it with putty but the light is not fully all the way flat against the wall so I would assume water is just going in the gap and if there is a hole still finding a way to leak out.
 

Jcsmith9

Well-known member
Feb 24, 2022
78
Birmingham/Alabama
If the water stops at the skimmer after they puttied the light niche why would it still leak after they filled it. Is the water still leaking toward the light or did it stop? Because if it's the light, you'd still be losing water because the light is positioned lower than the skimmer right?

I'm betting it's the skimmer since it keeps stopping at the skimmer.
The water level is currently dropped below the skimmer and almost below the return jets. Yeah the light is below the skimmer.
 
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JoyfulNoise

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May 23, 2015
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They need to address the light fixture that is shifted especially if it was not that way before they changed the liner AND they need to check the new hydrostat
 
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Jcsmith9

Well-known member
Feb 24, 2022
78
Birmingham/Alabama
They said the chord of the light that is typically 5ft or longer to be able to bring the light up to the concrete deck on ours is very short. You can not take the entire light housing out all the way it is that short. They are going to rig something up to where they can get it out and seal off whatever hole may be in there. What are you saying now about the hydrostatic relief valve? What happens if it is not sealed and closed at the bottom?
 

JoyfulNoise

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May 23, 2015
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The hydrostatic valve allows groundwater to fill your pool if the ground is saturated with water and the water level in your pool gets too low. It's basically a protective element. But if the ground is not saturated and the valve has a leak, then water leaks out of the pool into the ground. It would be similar to a leak in the main drain plumbing line. So if they installed a new hydrostatic valve and did a sloppy job, then it could leak. If the water level keeps going down past the light, then the only sources for a leak would be a tear in the liner OR a leak in the main drain/hydrostat.

Yes, most light junction boxes are within 5 ft of the pool, that's how they are designed. When a light is installed, they usually coil up some wire in the light niche so that you can pull the light fixture out and put it up on the deck. Most light niches are designed to accept a light fixture with a wire coiled around it. So whoever installed that light and cut the cord to the length of the niche to junction box conduit and didn't leave extra cord did the job incorrectly. Was this light ever replaced?

They're making it sound like some kind of difficult situation but it's not. If the cord is indeed that short, then you disconnect it at the above ground location and tie a extra length of pull cord rope to the end of the wire. That way, when you pull the light out of the niche, you can pull the wiring back by the cord. Even if they didn't do that, any electrician has flexible fiberglass "fish" tape that they can run down the conduit to create a pull wire with ... it's pretty standard stuff. Heck, if they are working on pools, they should have the fish tape to do the wire pull with.

These guys are either incompetent or pretending to be so that they can seem blameless and perplexed. If I were you, I would be out there when they are doing the work watching them. They clearly need to be supervised ... or, at the very least, now that your pool has drained off so much water and this is the second trip out, I would be on the phone with the owner of the pool company demanding that he show up and keep his crew in line.
 
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Jcsmith9

Well-known member
Feb 24, 2022
78
Birmingham/Alabama
So it is Thursday and nobody has come out. I continue to get the let it get below the light then we will show up to fix the leak which we believe is at the light. Rained last night, I feel like my water I filled the pool with will turn green before this is all said and done.
 

Jcsmith9

Well-known member
Feb 24, 2022
78
Birmingham/Alabama
The hydrostatic valve allows groundwater to fill your pool if the ground is saturated with water and the water level in your pool gets too low. It's basically a protective element. But if the ground is not saturated and the valve has a leak, then water leaks out of the pool into the ground. It would be similar to a leak in the main drain plumbing line. So if they installed a new hydrostatic valve and did a sloppy job, then it could leak. If the water level keeps going down past the light, then the only sources for a leak would be a tear in the liner OR a leak in the main drain/hydrostat.

Yes, most light junction boxes are within 5 ft of the pool, that's how they are designed. When a light is installed, they usually coil up some wire in the light niche so that you can pull the light fixture out and put it up on the deck. Most light niches are designed to accept a light fixture with a wire coiled around it. So whoever installed that light and cut the cord to the length of the niche to junction box conduit and didn't leave extra cord did the job incorrectly. Was this light ever replaced?

They're making it sound like some kind of difficult situation but it's not. If the cord is indeed that short, then you disconnect it at the above ground location and tie a extra length of pull cord rope to the end of the wire. That way, when you pull the light out of the niche, you can pull the wiring back by the cord. Even if they didn't do that, any electrician has flexible fiberglass "fish" tape that they can run down the conduit to create a pull wire with ... it's pretty standard stuff. Heck, if they are working on pools, they should have the fish tape to do the wire pull with.

These guys are either incompetent or pretending to be so that they can seem blameless and perplexed. If I were you, I would be out there when they are doing the work watching them. They clearly need to be supervised ... or, at the very least, now that your pool has drained off so much water and this is the second trip out, I would be on the phone with the owner of the pool company demanding that he show up and keep his crew in line.
They came out today and dove to the bottom to check the main drain and hydro stat did the dye test and still can’t figure it out. Now they said we will have to get American Leak Detection out to figure out what it is as they exhausted all other options. Inside of the light niche has been completely puttied and the water level is stopped right at the top of the light. I am very frustrated with this entire experience. Any suggestions moving forward?
 

JoyfulNoise

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May 23, 2015
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Tucson, AZ
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Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Ok. Well, someone is going to have to pay them upfront since they don’t work for free. They are not cheap either … standard pool leak detection service around here starts at $400 for the basic equipment. If they have to dive in the pool or use gas detection it goes way up.

Not sure what to say other than to bring in the pros and let them determine the leak’s location. If it’s stopping right at the top of the light then I’m guessing when they did the liner installation someone screwed up the seal around the light fixture. Either that or there is a tear in the liner. Either way, it’s going to be difficult to locate just by looking at it.
 
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