Want an attorney to review pool contract in DFW area. Any recommendations?

Jump to latest Follow Reply
My 2 cents worth. Most of these guys are relatively small businesses. They are not likely to be flexible in the contract. They don’t have an on staff attorney and isn’t going to work through a redline process with you. At some point they paid an attorney to draft up the contract and they have been using it. Unless your pool is in the 6 figure range... I am not sure they would flex on it.
 
Contracts don't have to be one sided. All parties should have equal rights and ability to negotiate the terms.

It all comes down to the details of what you propose to change. As long as they seem reasonable to the other party, they should be accepted.

The buyer can submit a request for proposal that outlines the buyer's expectations and needs.

The initial proposal can be countered and there can be substantial back and forth until an agreement in principle is reached.

A contract is then drafted to outline the agreed responsibilities of the parties.

Simple adhesion contracts can often end up as unsatisfactory to both parties if it doesn't clarify the full expectations of everyone involved.

Of course there will always be contractors who have a take it or leave it attitude.

Ultimately, it comes down to the integrity of the parties. With good people, often just a simple agreement is enough.

But, with people who don't deal in good faith, even the most elaborate contracts won't mean anything.

Bottom line, work with people you like and trust and minimize the contract changes to reasonable amounts.

Just my opinion.
 
If you already need an attorney, you have the wrong PB. And if I was your potential PB, I'd probably lose your number.
Attorneys are the only ones that win at the end of the day. Best to hire people using references and your spidey sense.
 
johnny12 said:
Would appreciate recommendations. Also- if I do have attorney modify the contract, are pool builders likely to give somewhat or do they take the stance " we don't change the contract"?
We have met with Riverbend, Hauk, Venture, Claffey.
Click to expand...

I don't have a specific recommendation but check around with your personal and professional friends such as your investment advisor. James response is right on in my opinion. I would add that the contract is one avenue of protection to both of you. But good execution practice is much better protection. If you have a big dispute and you go to court nobody really wins, one side just loses less. Here are the basics of good execution in my experience:
  • Check references carefully. Also check online sources like Home Advisor.
  • How long have the crews and crew leaders been with the builder?
  • Spend time getting to know your builder and the person you'll be dealing with. Ask the tough questions like "what do we do if we find something your crews are doing doesn't meet the spec?" See how he responds. If you can have a professional discussion on questions like this, it's a good indicator. If the reaction is something you don't like this is not a good builder for you.
  • Understand the sequence of construction and how changes you may make will add to costs. One of your best protections for a good experience is to have your scope and specifications very well thought-out prior to signing the contract.
  • Understand the variability that can occur in finish and colors.
  • NEVER pay way ahead of the contractor. You should try to make sure your cash-flow matches his actual cost at maximum. If this isn't possible you are banking the job... not a good idea.
  • Remember there are exceptions to every "good practice" but they need to make sense.

I hope this helps.

Chris
 
I am of the mindset of another poster of why do u have an attorney in the mix already? If I mentioned having an attorney do something to my contract to my builder he would have walked. He deff doesn’t need the extra job. I would think. As soon and u mention an attorney even before getting out of the gates that would put a red flag up for me even and I would prob bolt from the job. I don’t want to sound harsh but it already causes unneed tension and u didn’t even start yet. This builder. An becthe greatest guy in world. Why make stress already for no reason.

I know any of my guys I deal woth on a daily would loose ur number instantly cause like I said above they have plenty of other work to fill loosing 1 job that might be a lot of drama.
 
I can not advise on the attorney review process but as mentioned above it all comes down to getting the correct PB from the start. That would be where I would concentrate my efforts.

Cris had a great list to get you started. I would add..

Make sure you see - feel - touch - walk on, the finish you choose. It would be best to see a few that are several years old to get the best idea of how your pool will look in a few years.

Compaction on backfill seems to be where a lot of pool builders either take shortcuts or are not properly educated in how to properly compact different soil types. I have seen many posts on here that are the result of this issue but not a whole lot discussion on making sure the PB does it correctly. You do not want to put a 10-20 thousand dollar patio on dirt that will settle in 1-2 years.

Be sure to ask about there compaction methods and have a clear understanding of how it will be accomplished. I found having a verbal conversation with PB to get these things clear is best but then follow up with a email to get it in writing and dated so you can reference back to it. Something like " I would just like to clarify Our discussion about the backfill compaction. It is my understanding that you will X,Y,Z Blah, Blah, Blah.. Ect..
 
Folks,

Reading through all the comments on this thread I have a few more comments, mostly based on decades of personal experience managing construction contractors (mega-sized down to very small one-man-shows):
  • Having an attorney read your contractor's proposed contract for you and explaining the rights and obligations both parties have is always a good idea for major purchases. To me this means anything over $10,000 or so. You don't have to disclose this to the builder.
  • In my experience a good attorney will not require unreasonable terms, rather he will inform you when the contractor is being unreasonable.
  • Many contractors use an attorney to draft their contract and it is almost always drafted to be "one way". For example you may see a term such as "time is of the essence for the contractor" and no mention of the owner. This gives the builder explicit rights that you don't have. I'm not an attorney so I won't go into details on this but you should ask your attorney to explain what these things mean to you, and your specific situation. There are many other examples of this in terms of liability, indemnification, release of liens etc. Make certain that you at least understand everything you are signing up for.
  • If you get the feeling your builder does not want your business then I wouldn't want him to do my pool. This doesn't mean he's your slave but there should be mutual respect and he should value you as much as you value him.
  • Be completely clear and candid as you negotiate. Be professional in the discussion and never let emotions rule. If the builder won't agree to terms you want then ask why and "listen to understand". If you were in his shoes would you agree?
  • Avoid ambiguity where ever possible. I hate the term "or equivalent". It should at least be qualified by equivalent quality, price. Best would be to have no substitutions allowed without written prior approval except in very specific cases. This shouldn't be all that hard for a better builder that has done the proper job planning and materials commitments before starting the job.
  • Ask your builder how he manages quality. My experience is that the really good contractors have great answers to this. There are certain things that should have an inspection independent of the craft labor. This can be by the owner of the company himself or a long-term craft labor supervisor.
  • Ask about his safety record. A safe crew is almost always a high quality crew.
  • Ask to look at a pool under construction. Do this unannounced. A neat and well-organized site free of trip hazards, and where labor has proper safety gear such as safety glasses, steel toed boots etc is a very good indicator of the quality. It's amazing the amount of variability you see on this even in the same neighborhood with different builders.
  • Spend all the time you need to figure out all the details you want incorporated in your pool BEFORE you sign the contract. If you absolutely need a change expect it will cost more than you could imagine. Builders have real costs that you don't see and don't know about unless you've done construction before. One of the best ways a builder can keep costs reasonable is to plan work very carefully then execute efficiently. There are lot's of "small changes" that have huge impact to his efficiency with his crews, suppliers, and equipment.
  • Keep in touch with your builder during all phases of the work. This means during the detailed design, permitting, purchasing and field construction. Talk to your builder about this before you sign the contract and be reasonable about it. You should only want to verify he's doing what you agreed to.

Sorry for the length of this list but I think the best way to avoid horror stories you read about all the time on this and other sites.

I hope this helps.

Chris
 
Contractor contracts protect only one person - yes, you got it, the contractor! By all means have an attorney go over the contract and point out any issues that are of concern. Then if you share the concern, discuss with your pool builder. I've had contract discussions (they don't need to be "disputes") before and they have generally worked out OK
 
I am an attorney, and here is my perspective, and my personal approach with entering into these kinds of contracts.

First, find a reputable builder and get solid references, from people you know if possible. The idea is to have someone who will treat you right, so the contract never becomes an issue.

It is never a bad idea to have an attorney review a contract for a big purchase. That being said, there are different levels of review. Any good attorney can read a contract and find all kinds of little nooks and crannies where they would state things differently, add this, remove that, and make it the most perfect rock solid contract in the world that will protect and indemnify you from every eventuality. However, a small business pool builder is not going to react very well if you take this approach. Most will consider it an insult to their integrity and reputation they have worked hard to build. Also, they will see you as a lawsuit waiting to happen, and if I represented that builder, my recommendation as their attorney would be to find another pool to build.

The better approach, if I were you, is to have an attorney look it over just to make sure there is nothing really unfair or onerous in the contract. Most likely it will be (and should be) fairly boilerplate. If there is anything that really sticks out, it may indicate other potential issues with that builder, so rather than trying to redline it and negotiate the agreement, find another builder who doesn't have weird stuff in their contract.

Now my disclaimer: I don't know you, I do not represent you or anyone else on this site, and I am not even licensed to practice outside of California. Anything I say here is not to be taken as legal advice.
 

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support
I didn't have a lawyer review my contract, but I'm kind of particular when it comes to contracts.

My PB's standard contract contains the sentence

Buyer agrees to hold Contractor harmless from damage to driveway, walks, curbs, underground lines, planting or lawn caused by Contractor, his employees or equipment, as may be normally incidental to swimming pool construction.

Um, no, sorry. "You break it, you buy it" seems more reasonable to me. I asked the PB to strike this one sentence and, to my surprise, they agreed.

I said, "I can't be the first customer to ask for this sentence to be deleted." Their reply: "Actually, you are."

So I guess if you have issues with the contract, it can't hurt to ask for it to be amended.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Thread Status
Hello , This thread has been inactive for over 60 days. New postings here are unlikely to be seen or responded to by other members. For better visibility, consider Starting A New Thread.
Top Bottom
Back
Jump to latest Follow Reply