Using a PB in Vegas

[TwinMama15]

Hi all! This site has been a life-saver for me and my research-oriented brain. I like to thoroughly check out all my options and try to plan for all possibilities before making decisions, so you can imagine how many hours I have spent surfing the forum in the last few weeks.

Background: We have a landscaped backyard that will be torn apart to put a pool in. We have a small backyard, and it's important that I have a decent-sized pool with a fair amount of deck. I also will save some existing landscaping and add new landscaping along the wall lines. Our backyard is on a slope, which goes down to the house. My (currently!) first-place PB has worked with me and sketched out this design. I would love input from everyone on any problems you see, or any suggestions you have.

Details:
- All Jandy equipment, including a variable-speed pump (high energy costs in Vegas)
- Saltwater pool
- Spray deck (all other materials are too hot or too pricey for my personally)
- The PB put in 3, six-inch spillways off the spa, but I think I will change this to one solid opening (unless anyone has a comment against?)
- The depths are 3.5, 4.5, and 5.5.
- The sun deck will be about 6"; I am still deciding if I want to go to 12"; will it be long enough at 6 feet? I don't want to take up too much "pool real estate," but having a sun deck is important for our needs.
- I will add in another LED light on the shallow end of the pool; would this best be placed in front of the sun deck to shine on the spillway?
- The big area in the top left is an existing planter that we are leaving.
- The pool will be colored, "quartz-infused" plaster; I still need to get confirmation on what this means exactly.
- How can I dress up the sun deck area? Or do I need to? I like the look of glass tile on the sun deck floor, but I worry about it being slippery (and expensive!)
- I am going against the PB's recommendation and using a vacuum cleaning system v. in-floor. He is pushing it hard and says I will regret it.

Questions:
- Is there anything I should change?
- The back wall of the pool has to be built up to account for the slope in my yard. I am having trouble picturing the design; 6" to 12". Can anyone give me a better idea of how this will look? My PB doesn't have fancy 3-D renderings. Or maybe a different option that would look nicer?
- Is is strange to have a sun shelf off the shallow end? A different PB said most people keep them close to the spa. I can't figure out why it would matter, and it seems like it would be easier to go from the sun deck to the shallow end, but maybe I'm missing something?

Any advice would be GREATLY appreciated! I promise to update with photos along the way! Thanks SO MUCH in advance for taking the time to help.

 

[kimkats]

Saying hi and will be back in a few for more

 

[TwinMama15]

Hi kimkats! I look forward to hearing from you!

My attachment didn't come out very big; here's another!

 

[bmoreswim]

Quartz infused plaster could me a standard quartz finish like Diamond Brite (most likely) or plain plaster with about a bag or two of DB mixed in per batch to get the color (like ours - less likely).

I kind of like the three spillway look but it's just a personal thing. Most here are varieties of a single spillway.

I recommend a robot (specifically Doheny's Discovery by Dolphin) versus any type of plumbed vacuum (in-floor, pressure or suction).

 

[Jimrahbe]

Twin,

Welcome to TFP... A Great resource for all your pool questions....

I am also not a fan of in-floor cleaning systems. I would suggest you get a Robot. Water powered vacuum systems are a little like old, black, rotary-dial phones, technology wise. Robots are more like cell phones when it comes to today's technology.

Check out this thread... https://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/120447-First-Robotic-Cleaner-Doheny-s-Discovery

Good job on going with a Saltwater pool you will not regret it!!!

Thanks for posting,

Jim R.

 

[BeachHead]

Howdy "neighbor"... I'm on the downhill side of my build, and I'll be happy to share what I've learned from our adventure (build thread here: Another underway in Las Vegas)

- The back wall of the pool has to be built up to account for the slope in my yard. I am having trouble picturing the design; 6" to 12". Can anyone give me a better idea of how this will look? My PB doesn't have fancy 3-D renderings. Or maybe a different option that would look nicer?

Here's a picture that may help you with the different wall elevations. That "+' is measured from the top of the waterline tile, which in this case is the gray stripe running in the picture. Starting with the highest point on the wall above that stripe, it is +24", then it steps down to +18', then down to +12". I don't have any +6", but if you cut the last one in half again in your mind, you'll see what it looks like. Or another way to think of it is +6 would be two rows of standard 6" tiles, and +24 would be 5 rows (with the last row halfway under water when the pool is filled. Hopefully that will help you visualize what it looks like:


on the lights, the common design favored here is pointing away from the house, and not in the "swim lane", which on your pool looks to e the 30' dimension.

I don't see any reason to not put the swim step in the shallow end. Ours is in the shallow end, and on the opposite side of the spa, but that was more driven by the size of the backyard, and design. Ours is 8' long, and a chaise lounge fits with plenty of room. Best thing to do is go put some tape on the floor, or strings in the ground, and see how you like that size with a piece of furniture on it to provide visual scale. We chose to stay at the first step depth for the little ones, and to put the lounge into the water for "cool" purposes. I think it's purely a personal choice here.

I also think the spillways are a personal design choice. We wanted an "infinity" edge look when we sit in the spa, and put a bench on the other side so people can sit in the spa, and in the pool and have a conversation, so ours is as wide as we could make it. Get what you want, with how you think you'll use your pool..

I also went without the infloor system. I've read very mixed reviews of them, and they seem to work for a while, and then they don't. My worry was finding parts for them 8 years from now. I can always buy another vacuum, or robot. Others swear by them, so that's a decision you have to make. I had a pool for 23 years in our previous house (also in the desert) without them, and didn't mind the occasional sweeping as it helps me keep an eye on things.

An economical way to dress up the sunshelf and stairs is the step marker...just a small strip of tiles at the edge. Although, a fully tiled sunshelf would look awesome!! Lots of pictures of that on the web, and seems some entire pools are tiled. I think it's a matter of how deep is your wallet... You could also put a mural tile in the middle...again, it's only money.

Your design looks very nice. It reminds me of our old pool. I had one place with a tight angle by the stairs the cleaner would get hung up on. I would try and open up the angle on the stair by the right arrow of the 30' dimension line on your drawing, but that's just because I got tired of unsticking the cleaner in that spot over the years. But that also depends on where the suction port is installed, so it may not be any big deal.

I hope this helps somewhat, and if there's anything else I can help with, just ask..

 

[kimkats]

Okay! I am home and have time!!! Here we go!!!!!!

I LOVE your design! Lets count the ways:

-you have a swim lane! NICE

-you have a bench by the spa so you can sit in the spa and talk to someone in the pool or slip out of the hot tub into the pool easily!

-I might rotate the sun shelf and steps-reason-sitting on the shelf you will not be able to see the TV on the patio like it is.

-I would leave the sun shelf at the end of the pool you have it on. MUCH easier to get into and out of the pool and the steps will not have to take up as much room in the pool as they would if the shelf is in the deep end.

Things to think about:

-3.5 is not very deep. Please hold a tape measure up to you and yours to see where that falls. I am not sure you can swim without scraping your knuckles with 3.5

-sun shelf depth-what do you see putting on there? Go from there on depth. Do you want your fanny in or out of the water when you are sitting there? Do the same thing for how big it is. Can people walk/step into the pool with what you put on the shelf.

-pretty up the sun shelf-I LOVE BLING tile on the edge of the shelf and steps and benches. I would not do any of those areas in solid tile for the reason you stated-slippery and $$

Equipment-what models and sizes? pump, filter, SWG, etc.

I bet you know what I am going to ask for next................pictures of where there the pool is going to go so we can see what you are dealing with.

Kim

 

[grumpiebk]

Nice design. Here are my thoughts:

Keep the shelf where is. It is a nice transition into the shallow end. It is also an inviting entry off of your patio.

Hard to tell from your drawing, but do you have privacy in the current spa location?

I like a 3.5" shallow end. Just be sure you get enough steps. If your shelf is 6" water depth (it looks like it is designed that way since there is no step into the shelf), then you are going to be a 12" high steps, which is too steep in my opinion. We have that in ours and it is a little steep for little ones and older guests.

Since it is a free form pool, your shelf width is going to be much less than 6' in most spots. Measure how you will use it to be sure that is the size you want. For example, chaises likely will never work on that size, certainly not 2.

Do you have any more room for some additional space between the patio and the pool? 4' might be tight. Likewise on the left side of the pool. Where do you see your "poolside seating" to be?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TwinMama15]

Quartz infused plaster could me a standard quartz finish like Diamond Brite (most likely) or plain plaster with about a bag or two of DB mixed in per batch to get the color (like ours - less likely).

I kind of like the three spillway look but it's just a personal thing. Most here are varieties of a single spillway.

I recommend a robot (specifically Doheny's Discovery by Dolphin) versus any type of plumbed vacuum (in-floor, pressure or suction).

Thank you so much! Can you tell me a little more about the robot? Would it not need the hose connection in the pool like a Kreepy Krauly? Or does it have some other way to connect? Thanks in advance.

 

[TwinMama15]

I am also not a fan of in-floor cleaning systems. I would suggest you get a Robot. Water powered vacuum systems are a little like old, black, rotary-dial phones, technology wise. Robots are more like cell phones when it comes to today's technology.

Check out this thread... https://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/120447-First-Robotic-Cleaner-Doheny-s-Discovery

Good job on going with a Saltwater pool you will not regret it!!!

Thanks for posting,

Jim R.

Thank you so much for linking me to the thread! I will examine it more closely in a bit; I feel like I just spent a whole bunch of time researching an option that is totally outdated. Whoops! So much to learn. And I'm glad to hear about the saltwater. My PB tried to talk me out of it initially, saying that chlorine is much easier to monitor and deal with. For me, it's a skin/eye sensitivity issue. I love the silky smooth feel of a saltwater pool.

 

[TwinMama15]

Howdy "neighbor"... I'm on the downhill side of my build, and I'll be happy to share what I've learned from our adventure (build thread here: Another underway in Las Vegas)

Here's a picture that may help you with the different wall elevations. That "+' is measured from the top of the waterline tile, which in this case is the gray stripe running in the picture. Starting with the highest point on the wall above that stripe, it is +24", then it steps down to +18', then down to +12". I don't have any +6", but if you cut the last one in half again in your mind, you'll see what it looks like. Or another way to think of it is +6 would be two rows of standard 6" tiles, and +24 would be 5 rows (with the last row halfway under water when the pool is filled. Hopefully that will help you visualize what it looks like:

on the lights, the common design favored here is pointing away from the house, and not in the "swim lane", which on your pool looks to e the 30' dimension.

I don't see any reason to not put the swim step in the shallow end. Ours is in the shallow end, and on the opposite side of the spa, but that was more driven by the size of the backyard, and design. Ours is 8' long, and a chaise lounge fits with plenty of room. Best thing to do is go put some tape on the floor, or strings in the ground, and see how you like that size with a piece of furniture on it to provide visual scale. We chose to stay at the first step depth for the little ones, and to put the lounge into the water for "cool" purposes. I think it's purely a personal choice here.

I also think the spillways are a personal design choice. We wanted an "infinity" edge look when we sit in the spa, and put a bench on the other side so people can sit in the spa, and in the pool and have a conversation, so ours is as wide as we could make it. Get what you want, with how you think you'll use your pool..

I also went without the infloor system. I've read very mixed reviews of them, and they seem to work for a while, and then they don't. My worry was finding parts for them 8 years from now. I can always buy another vacuum, or robot. Others swear by them, so that's a decision you have to make. I had a pool for 23 years in our previous house (also in the desert) without them, and didn't mind the occasional sweeping as it helps me keep an eye on things.

An economical way to dress up the sunshelf and stairs is the step marker...just a small strip of tiles at the edge. Although, a fully tiled sunshelf would look awesome!! Lots of pictures of that on the web, and seems some entire pools are tiled. I think it's a matter of how deep is your wallet... You could also put a mural tile in the middle...again, it's only money.

Your design looks very nice. It reminds me of our old pool. I had one place with a tight angle by the stairs the cleaner would get hung up on. I would try and open up the angle on the stair by the right arrow of the 30' dimension line on your drawing, but that's just because I got tired of unsticking the cleaner in that spot over the years. But that also depends on where the suction port is installed, so it may not be any big deal.

I hope this helps somewhat, and if there's anything else I can help with, just ask..

Firstly, WOW! Your pool is going to be amazing! I cannot wait to see it when it's complete. Great design!

Thank you SO much for all of your input, especially the photo. It helps me tremendously! And thank you for the tip about the tight angle. I am including a change request to the PB right now based on your insight. I really appreciate you taking the time to help me out!

 

[bmoreswim]

Thank you so much! Can you tell me a little more about the robot? Would it not need the hose connection in the pool like a Kreepy Krauly? Or does it have some other way to connect? Thanks in advance.

A robots only point of connection is via a low-voltage electric cord which plugs into a power supply/transformer which is outside of the pool, usually mounted on a robot caddy. That then plugs into an electrical outlet. The robot collects the debris in it's own canister which gets pulled out of the robot's belly and emptied out.

Here is the website link that the earlier thread references. http://www.doheny.com/poolsupplies/Dohenys-Discovery-Powered-By-Dolphin-13416.html

The price for him has dropped with some regularity in the past to $650 from $800. I'm currently waiting for that to happen again and will post in that thread when it does.

 

[TwinMama15]

Okay! I am home and have time!!! Here we go!!!!!!

I LOVE your design! Lets count the ways:

-you have a swim lane! NICE

-you have a bench by the spa so you can sit in the spa and talk to someone in the pool or slip out of the hot tub into the pool easily!

-I might rotate the sun shelf and steps-reason-sitting on the shelf you will not be able to see the TV on the patio like it is.

-I would leave the sun shelf at the end of the pool you have it on. MUCH easier to get into and out of the pool and the steps will not have to take up as much room in the pool as they would if the shelf is in the deep end.

Things to think about:

-3.5 is not very deep. Please hold a tape measure up to you and yours to see where that falls. I am not sure you can swim without scraping your knuckles with 3.5

-sun shelf depth-what do you see putting on there? Go from there on depth. Do you want your fanny in or out of the water when you are sitting there? Do the same thing for how big it is. Can people walk/step into the pool with what you put on the shelf.

-pretty up the sun shelf-I LOVE BLING tile on the edge of the shelf and steps and benches. I would not do any of those areas in solid tile for the reason you stated-slippery and $$

Equipment-what models and sizes? pump, filter, SWG, etc.

I bet you know what I am going to ask for next................pictures of where there the pool is going to go so we can see what you are dealing with.

Kim, thank you so much! You have such wonderful insights!

Regarding the rotation of the sun shelf; do you mean to actually move the location into the 30 foot swim lane, or just swap the location of the stairs from the right to left?

Thank you for the thought on the depth of the pool. What do you think a good depth range would be? The deepest I can go is 6 feet, so would it be best to do 4, 5, and 6? Or something else?

I am still in the planning stages with the PB, so I'm not exactly sure on the specifics of the equipment. Details to follow.

I will post some pictures of the current yard so you can see what I see!

 

[TwinMama15]

Nice design. Here are my thoughts:

Keep the shelf where is. It is a nice transition into the shallow end. It is also an inviting entry off of your patio.

Hard to tell from your drawing, but do you have privacy in the current spa location?

I like a 3.5" shallow end. Just be sure you get enough steps. If your shelf is 6" water depth (it looks like it is designed that way since there is no step into the shelf), then you are going to be a 12" high steps, which is too steep in my opinion. We have that in ours and it is a little steep for little ones and older guests.

Since it is a free form pool, your shelf width is going to be much less than 6' in most spots. Measure how you will use it to be sure that is the size you want. For example, chaises likely will never work on that size, certainly not 2.

Do you have any more room for some additional space between the patio and the pool? 4' might be tight. Likewise on the left side of the pool. Where do you see your "poolside seating" to be?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thank you so much for your wonderful thoughts/questions. So many things to think about!

The spa location is pretty private. We have one neighbor on the left side that could see the spa from 1 window, but otherwise we don't have any rear neighbors and the neighbors on the right cannot see that far. Our gate is on the opposite side of the yard. I was thinking I could tuck the spa into the house a little more, but I kind of like the current drawing because the spa becomes kind of a focal point to the rest of the pool area.

If I have the sun shelf at 12", would I need a step higher than that, or could we just start in at 12"? Thanks for the warning about steep stairs. I am clumsy.

I'm trying to factor in the sun shelf in the design while maintaining a good swim lane. Mostly, I am going to be the one using the sun shelf for sitting under an umbrella and reading a book while the hubby and kids swim. I have two 7 year-olds, so they are pretty much out of the sun shelf age. I don't plan on having a chair be a permanent fixture, but rather something I can stick in there as needed.

The patio is actually just open and a concrete slab. The PB is going to tear it up and pour a whole new area for the deck. So the existing patio is 6 feet from the house, and then the 4 feet would be added to that. So we would have a nice section under the patio, and then the locations to the left. I also like the circular deck area by the spa for maybe a fire pit or something. Does this sound more reasonable? I'll post pictures so you can see what I mean.

- - - Updated - - -

A robots only point of connection is via a low-voltage electric cord which plugs into a power supply/transformer which is outside of the pool, usually mounted on a robot caddy. That then plugs into an electrical outlet. The robot collects the debris in it's own canister which gets pulled out of the robot's belly and emptied out.

Here is the website link that the earlier thread references. http://www.doheny.com/poolsupplies/Dohenys-Discovery-Powered-By-Dolphin-13416.html

The price for him has dropped with some regularity in the past to $650 from $800. I'm currently waiting for that to happen again and will post in that thread when it does.

Oh man, this is so awesome! My good friend has owned several pools over the years and just had one installed, and has no idea about this wonderful machine! Whoa! So cool. I'm definitely going this route. Thank you so much! Would it be important for my PB to put in the suction line for a vacuum "just in case," or just leave it alone?

- - - Updated - - -

Here are some photos of my current backyard. The first is the left side where the spa will be and the second is the right side. The big palms will have to come out.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Twin,

Yes, I would have the PB install a dedicated vacuum line... The cost would be next to nothing. I would do this even if buying a robot, just because it is some much easier to do before any decking goes in.

Jim R.

 

[TwinMama15]

And here are the views from the upstairs balcony, both left and right.

 

[kimkats]

DOH! I take back moving the shelf! I was just thinking sitting on it watching TV but you can do that from a float in the pool. If you rotated it like I was thinking you are correct it would be in the swim lane NOT a good thing!

Now if you did move the steps on the other side of the shelf (that we are leaving right where it is LOL) that might help with the "pinch point" for the cleaner............will be fun to play with that AND it would make the swim lane even bigger!!

Love the back yard! I can't wait to see the pool painted on the ground to get a real good feel for it!

Kim

 

[marianol]

Great pool!!

I will just add my 2 cents.

Go for the infloor cleaning, I have a pentair one and love that thing!
The pool is always clean and there is nothing inside going around to clean or take care of.

The only thing you do is take the leaf canister from the deck and empty it.

Cheers and happy building!





Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

 

[hotrodbones]

On the depth of the sunshelf:
We decided to have an approx 12" deep shelf. This was the toughest decision on the entire pool to make for us. With us opting out from a spa I had to think about other places to lounge and have buzzed conversations. We love to entertain an found on our last pool most of the time was spent sitting on two swim-outs. Going with 12" allows numerous friends to sit in just under chest deep water with arms stretched across the coping while the little ones play in front of us. We also wanted to be able to sit in two Adirondack chairs with fannies in the water. So deciding on 12" became easy then we worked with the PB and added a small step into the shelf and then two steps down into the shallow end of 4-4.5' This makes for nice easy step heights. The size of our shelf is 12'wide by 8.5' long. This allow us two place two chairs on the shelf and easily walk around them. Pool is still under construction so this is the best pics i have.

Step Into Shelf

Steps into shallow end.

- - - Updated - - -

One other small overlooked consideration for pool layout, patio etc is the angle of the sun. Who wants to sunbath in loungers while facing away from your pool looking at a fence?

 

[TwinMama15]

Thank you so much for the photos, hotrodbones! So helpful!

Some additional questions to all:

- I have been reading up on AquaBrite, and I was totally all in when I arrived at "flame-thrower." My 7-year-olds will be staying home from school on flame-thrower day. Just to be sure before I email my PB about the availability to use this product, it is suitable for a saltwater pool - correct?

- Does anyone have any comments with respect to the depths I should consider? Would 4 feet to 6 feet be acceptable? Or should I have a middle depth?

- Does having a saltwater pool automatically mean that I get a SWG? Or is that one of these "upgrades" that are blowing my budget already? I know I need one, but I was just curious if it is an inherent part of most saltwater systems? I will ask my PB for clarification, but I don't want to seem like an idiot.

And here are some other tidbits I've collected along the way. Before I sent this list to the PB, I want to make sure these all make sense and are reasonable:

1. All fittings need unionized ends. 2.5-3" PVC to be used. Every pipe with a separate valve.


2. I want to make sure that the salt water chlorine generator is sized way up from what I need; around 40,000 gallons. And I want to be sure that the plumbers put in 12" of pipe before and after the generator.

3. Will the pool heater have a bypass?

4. Dedicated vacuum port, not tied to the skimmer.

5. Equipment must be well-spaced for access, and labeled. (Does my PB need to give me an actual pad? It seems that most of my Vegas friends have equipment that is not installed on a pad.)


Anything glaringly missing? Boy was I wrong when I thought forking over the money for the pool would be the hard part - lol!