Two holes on one DE filter panel (old), what to do?

[ShinDiors]

Long story short, very old pool (abandoned for at least five years) recently re-plastered and renovated, water refilled about two weeks ago. We have been brushing and balancing the water following the tfpc protocol. Water is clear and chemical levels doing alright. The filter seemed to work to some extent since we were seeing the water clearing up in 1-2 days, pressure gauge reads about 23psi and only increased to 24psi after 3 days. Our pump has been running 24*7 for 8 days now.

Just now, pool guys came to check on the DE filter. It is a pentair filter and there is a hole on one of the panel when they pulled out the whole assembly and used garden hose to clean it. They also add about 2lbs of Clorox DE media+filter aid through the skimmer.

The owner of pool company (did not came with the crew) now says that I would want to replace the whole assembly for about $580 since the condition was not good overall plus that broken hole. Also because of the broken part, backwash it would be causing the DE media to get back to the pool and deposit on the floor.

This is our first pool experience, and I'd want to hear your experts opinion on this. Thanks in advance.

 

[HermanTX]

It is correct that a hole in the screen panel will allow DE to flow to pool. You can just replace one of the damaged panels rather than all. Just be aware that there is 1 narrow panel and the others are all the same size.
if all the panels Are old and could further deteriorate which is why tech may be suggesting to change all.
If you are just trying to get by then change out the single panel. If you plan to use this for long term then it may be best to replace with a new set.
The alternative is to buy a new filter such as a cartridge which does away with the need of DE but that may be a $1200+ investment.

 

[ShinDiors]

whats the normal lifespan of a de filter? and does the price i was quoted sound about normal? i saw how the guy disassemble the filter from canister, a swap job shouldnot be too expensive/hard. i didn't see the model number on that assembly though.

 

[ShinDiors]

i know for sure the filter was sitting in it for at least five years, not sure how long before that was it installed

 

[zea3]

You do need to replace that grid or for the amount of money they want to replace the set you could buy a sand or cartridge filter. Also 2lbs of DE is not nearly enough for this filter. You can further damage the grids running the filter without enough DE.

From the stainless steel lid I see in the photo you have a Pentaire Nautilus DE filter but I'm not sure of the size. If you measure the diameter we can probably find out what size it is. When you know the size you can add the correct amount of DE and order the correct size grid.

 

[ShinDiors]

You do need to replace that grid or for the amount of money they want to replace the set you could buy a sand or cartridge filter. Also 2lbs of DE is not nearly enough for this filter. You can further damage the grids running the filter without enough DE.

From the stainless steel lid I see in the photo you have a Pentaire Nautilus DE filter but I'm not sure of the size. If you measure the diameter we can probably find out what size it is. When you know the size you can add the correct amount of DE and order the correct size grid.

I measured the stainless lid, and it is 9 inch in diameter, and the filter assembly is smaller than that for sure.

I think they intentionally added less because of the hole (the crew member was consulting with the owner) and during the conversation with company owner (tech expert) later, he mentioned it would need 5 lbs of DE, but the hole would probably blow back too much DE media to make it ugly. Not a word of insufficient DE might damage the filter (maybe for obvious reason). To think back, the crew member probably did not even add two lbs, coz he was using my 64oz measuring cup (volume?) and did two cups.

Another question is if the one I have (Clorox DE media + Filter aid) is good to use. I could only find this one at Lowes, but now is aware Clorox's reputation of always adding some extra ingredient to surprise me in a bad way.

What would be the best way for us right now? Do I need to add more DE in the skimmer while figuring out strategy? What is the bad part of having DE blown back from return line other than making water cloudy and ugly? Prior to the clean up today, we were thinking the filter was working coz in two days after the pump starting (got new pumps), water turned clear obviously.

 

[zea3]

If you want you can patch the fabric on the grid with some fiberglass cloth and super glue. This would just be a temporary measure to get you by until the grid is replaced. Open up the filter and remove the grids, hose off the DE and let the grids dry for 30 minutes. Cut out a piece of fiberglass cloth a 1/2" larger than the hole and glue it to the grid fabric with super glue and let it set for 30 minutes. Re-install grids and recharge DE filter to the correct amount.

The Chlorox DE should be fine. As long as it is labeled 100% diatomaceous earth for pool filters if it good to use.

 

[ShinDiors]

Thanks so much for the suggestion. How do I know the correct amount of DE needed? Based on the size I measured, is it possible to determine what model we have?

I'm a little reluctant to re-open the whole thing right now (please bear with my lacklaster of plumbing DIY experience), can I just add more DE through skimmer without patching it? Is it worse than running it as is (low DE media). I have been testing the water chemistry prior to this DE filter clean, and it is so far so good. I did have dusts, debris sitting at the bottom, but the water tested OK and was crystal clear.

 

[zea3]

You can add more DE but you may have some blow through that hole and cloud up the pool. Are there any stickers on the filter? I’m thinking it might be 40 sq ft but I’m not sure.

 

[HermanTX]

The biggest issue with the hole in the grid is that it will get worse. Flow takes the path of least resistance. It will not plug with DE because DE is a fine powder. Also grid area that is not coated with DE can create additional damage over time as noted in other posts
As you have seen a DE filter can be effective to improve water clarity. As a general guideline a Pentair 60 SQ ft takes 6 lbs DE and a 48 sq ft takes 4.8 lbs and a 36 sq ft takes 3.6 lbs. so until you figure what size you have use this.
You need to replace or fix that 1 grid soon.
Also if this is the older stainless steel filter body it should last a good long time.
try to post a picture of the housing and any tag on it.

 

[Poolbreh]

Those look like original grids, so they are probably over 20 years(pac fab was bought out by Pentair decades ago)
It looks like a 48sqft, the grids they run $20-25/piece * 8. You can silicone the hole but I would advice against it, since the age of the grids. You may find you patch one hole and another pops up, constantly opening it back up to fix. It’s 1lb of DE for every 10sqft. Grids usually last 10years depending on use/maintenance.

 

[reggiehammond]

I’d recommend just getting a Pentair cartridge filter, ripping out that impossible to clean and maintain DE filter, and go on and enjoy life!

 

[Hal3]

I just replaced the grid on my Pentair FNS 48 sq ft DE filter. The part was $150. Depending on how handy you are and your tolerance for frustration re-assembling the puzzle - that might be an option for you.

In the meantime, I might just patch it with a big glob of silicone sealer - maybe two coats with a patch of polyethylene between. (piece of heavy duty Zip Lock?) but I am totally making this up.

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[ShinDiors]

I’d recommend just getting a Pentair cartridge filter, ripping out that impossible to clean and maintain DE filter, and go on and enjoy life!

Will this run significantly more expensive and need entire thing to be changed ( the canister, plumbing etc)? The pool guy was saying $1500 for the entire thing including canister, but he was referring to a new de filter set. can we put a cartridge into the same canister and leave other things untouched?

 

[Poolbreh]

Unfortunately that tank isn’t convertible.

 

[ShinDiors]

I want to also thank everyone else who replied and gave suggestion first.

I'm leaning towards at least getting the filter assembly replaced coz I don't know the original date nor condition.

Two questions I have:
1. How much time do we have to get it fixed or swapped? Do we run more health risk with currently insufficient DE media or adding more DE media with potential more blown back? If sanitation is an immediate issue, I'd rather add to required level of DE media hoping it can coat more area on the grid. My kiddo has been very exciting and trying to dip in every other day.

2. Can we use cartridge filter in the same housing or we need entire set replaced? Also I thought DE filter works better than Cartridge, is DE backwash that much of a hassle (I was told by the pool guy to use that push/pull level for 25-30s, with return line and skimmer plugged) compared to maintenance of cartridge filter?

Thanks so much.

Here are a few more pix of the housing and label (all the texts on that label were washed out entirely, cannot tell the model number at all)

 

[ShinDiors]

Also anther observation, not sure related.

When new pump was installed and running with the old, not cleaned filter, the pressure gauge on housing reads 23 psi, and it stayed at about 24psi couple of days later, and now two weeks.

After the cleaning today, the pressure gauge only reads 17 psi.

 

[HermanTX]

A cartridge filter requires buying a whole new unit. Housing and internal cartridge plus replumbing it all.
lit is hard to read the label on the housing in the picture. Can you?

the lower operating pressure is typical after cleaning the filter.

Suggest buy the single grid to replace damaged one or buy whole new set and your DE filter be good for years if you backwash it every 4-6 weeks.

 

[zea3]

The pressure reading is supposed to go down after the filter is cleaned. You clean the filter when the pressure rises 25% above the clean pressure reading. Your clean pressure at this time is 17 psi, so when the pressure reaches 21 psi it will be time to clean it again.

As for your other question, if you are replacing the entire set of grids soon, then run the filter as is. It is more important that the pool stay properly chlorinated to prevent algae formation and so the water is sanitary for swimming. Any debris that collects in the water can be removed after the grids are replaced. As long as you are getting grids I would also ask for the push/pull valve to be replaced with a multiport valve.

 

[ShinDiors]

lit is hard to read the label on the housing in the picture. Can you?

I can't either. I think the housing, like @Poolbreh mentioned, probably was the 20 yr or more older. All the txts on that label were pretty much washed out entirely.