If we guessed from the label and the size of the housing ( 18 inch in diameter), it is the 48 model (requires 4.8lbs, so matches with the 5lbs said by pool guy), where do I buy the replacement part? I may try to do it myself, or ask a contractor? I feel the pool guy is trying to charge too much for this swap job? if the part is 200 dollar for the whole set? Anyway, all the information in this thread have been so helpful and I truely appreciate all your patience and help.
Two holes on one DE filter panel (old), what to do?
- Thread starter ShinDiors
- Start date
The grids are universal “48sqft top manifold grids” and can be purchased at local pool store or on amazon. You can replace one or all. I would also inspect the manifold make sure there aren’t any cracks. Pentair makes a replaceable manifold, and some off brands carry it for around $50-60.
What is the benefit of a multiport valve? Pool guy showed me that the backwash outlet was plumbed directly do storm drain if that matters.
1. Answer: Usually you would have a week or so if DE continues to pass. But since it’s new plaster it’s a bit more urgent(also depends on finish) and may void any warranty with plaster company(they love pointing the finger at homeowners). Brush vacuuming all the plaster dust is a crucial part in the startup on new finish. It may or may not be the reason they are charging $580. DE will not damage the new finish but the startup company may not add cya because this can stain the bottom if it doesn’t dissolve in the filter. (There is also a liquid form) granules are more common.
2. you can’t rig that tank with cartridge. It would require you replace the whole filter. DE has higher filtration rate when it comes to microns, but cartridge is easier to clean. If you do the pool yourself I would say go with cartridge if you have a company go with DE.
It should be a fairly straight forward swap of parts. You can watch a video like this one to see if you feel like you can do it yourself.
I'm not sure if plumbing the waste line to the storm sewer is a good idea for a DE filter. You may want to check local regulations and see if that is allowed.
I like a multiport valve for convenience and ease of use. You can also set the valve to recirculate and bypass the filter when needed. If you had a multiport in place now you could run the pump and bypass the filter grids and not worry about sending dirt and DE into the pool until the grids are replaced. Putting in a multiport yourself is doable but something you may want to look into if you have not worked with pvc piping before.
I'm not sure if plumbing the waste line to the storm sewer is a good idea for a DE filter. You may want to check local regulations and see if that is allowed.
I like a multiport valve for convenience and ease of use. You can also set the valve to recirculate and bypass the filter when needed. If you had a multiport in place now you could run the pump and bypass the filter grids and not worry about sending dirt and DE into the pool until the grids are replaced. Putting in a multiport yourself is doable but something you may want to look into if you have not worked with pvc piping before.
- May 3, 2014
- 58,656
- Pool Size
- 6000
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
TFPC uses a process called the 'Sock Method' to add CYA. We do not recommend adding directly to the filter via the skimmer.
See Recommended Pool Chemicals - Trouble Free Pool
This was helpful. Compared to my observation of the removal/reinstallation by the pool company, two major differences, I found the NS series manual online and based on the measurement of the SS housing, mine should be the NS-48. Nautilus™ NS Stainless Steel D.E. FilterInstallation, Operation | Manualzz...
Mine does not have the pentair pressure gauge, but was a Hayward gauge with some thumb knob on top. I'm not entirely sure that was a pressure relief valve. When the pool company guy did it,
1. Shut off pump from timer side
2. plugged all return lines, and the skimmers
2. He loosened and removed part 29 in this diagram or part 26 I'm not too sure, but it was down below and the space was very limited - My question: what does this part do? The YT video process did not do anything in the bottom halve.
3. He twisted the thumb drive on the hayward gauge
4. Remove the springloaded clamp to remove the upper halve
5. remove the grid assembly. (I did not see any gasket on the stem pipe where water comes in to the housing. Nor did i notice it on the grid. I think there should be one gasket there based on my research.
When he installed it back, to close back and relamp the two halves seems to be most tricky due to the limited space i have in the equipment pad, also the fact that O-ring seems to be a little big loose over the halves, although he managed to get it sit and tightened the clamp.
The Hayward Pressure gauge actually had a small crack, so is there any replacement gauge I can use to avoid having to bend down to work on bottom halve?
Also the part I can find on Amazon seems to fit the FNS 48, from what I saw, I do not have the part in red circle on my old assembly. Was that the correct part or I would need exact part for NS48? The pool guy did not have to do anything up top the manifold. All he did was to put the assembly on the stem pipe inside the housing.
As I have never done anything plumbing wise, only worked on cars and electronics before, any special tools and parts I need to prepare? The pool guy used very simple hand tools, mostly just a plier wrench, magic lube for the O-ring.
The only uncomfortable part in this process is the water pressure inside that may make the housing difficult to open, and also potential water leak if I did something wrong in the process.
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Is the equipment below the pool? If so you will have to shut off valves or plug up ports. Pressure gauges are universal, the manifold should come with the vent, 29 was most likely the tank drain. I would get a new stem pipe oring, they are constantly getting stretched out.
@Poolbreh @zea3
I watched a few more YT videos, and I think I should be able to do the swap job myself with an entire grid set. A few questions of doing this:
1. Pentair Grid Assembly - Ns48 48 Sq Ft | In The Swim, this is the correct replacement part for the entire assembly correct? I saw another thread asking about the internal air vent with the tube. My old one, as shown in the pix before, has not such tube. I would also order the O-ring for the two halves also the one for the stem pipe. Have mag lube II (red) one ordered as well.
2. Looks like for a swap job, I just shut the pump, then plug the lines (my equip pad is lower than the pool). There is also a multiport valve connecting to skimmer 1+main drain; skimmer 2, and pump, the pool guy also turned the valve to shut off incoming tube from skimmer1+main drain (i think it is just for safety? kinda redundant).
3. Open the drain plug and turn on the air bleeder thing (Amazon.com: Pentair 154689 Air Bleeder Assembly: Garden & Outdoor), to let air in the housing
4. open the retainer between two halves by loosen the spring loaded nut.
5. open the top lid (any tips if it is not opening?)
6. remove the old assembly, hose off the dirt and debris in the bottom halve, and they should come out from the drain plug?
7. put the entire assembly on the stem tube with a new o-ring (lubed)
8. lube the 18 inch O ring (better change a new one?), and close the retainer. I saw a lot of people complain about the "replacement part" from pentair was actually larger than 18 inch. The current O-ring was loose too.
9. close the drain plug, shut off the air bleeder thing.
10. Turn the mpv to open up water lines to pump, and remove the plugs.
11. turn on pump
12. add 5 lbs of DE media through skimmer.
Does that sound like the correct operation order? I don't need backwash since I opened the drain plug right?
BTW, anyone know which size of socket to fit for that springloaded nut? And what is the easy way of loosen/tighten that drain plug? It has two parallel protruded lines, does not look like it is for socket wrench (the pool guy used a plier wrench, which apparently was not the appropriate tool for that either)
BTW, I only have a push/pull valve on the backwash, if you guys can point me to a YT video or thread here to show how to do backwash, i'd much appreciated it as well.
Thanks a lot in advance.
I watched a few more YT videos, and I think I should be able to do the swap job myself with an entire grid set. A few questions of doing this:
1. Pentair Grid Assembly - Ns48 48 Sq Ft | In The Swim, this is the correct replacement part for the entire assembly correct? I saw another thread asking about the internal air vent with the tube. My old one, as shown in the pix before, has not such tube. I would also order the O-ring for the two halves also the one for the stem pipe. Have mag lube II (red) one ordered as well.
2. Looks like for a swap job, I just shut the pump, then plug the lines (my equip pad is lower than the pool). There is also a multiport valve connecting to skimmer 1+main drain; skimmer 2, and pump, the pool guy also turned the valve to shut off incoming tube from skimmer1+main drain (i think it is just for safety? kinda redundant).
3. Open the drain plug and turn on the air bleeder thing (Amazon.com: Pentair 154689 Air Bleeder Assembly: Garden & Outdoor), to let air in the housing
4. open the retainer between two halves by loosen the spring loaded nut.
5. open the top lid (any tips if it is not opening?)
6. remove the old assembly, hose off the dirt and debris in the bottom halve, and they should come out from the drain plug?
7. put the entire assembly on the stem tube with a new o-ring (lubed)
8. lube the 18 inch O ring (better change a new one?), and close the retainer. I saw a lot of people complain about the "replacement part" from pentair was actually larger than 18 inch. The current O-ring was loose too.
9. close the drain plug, shut off the air bleeder thing.
10. Turn the mpv to open up water lines to pump, and remove the plugs.
11. turn on pump
12. add 5 lbs of DE media through skimmer.
Does that sound like the correct operation order? I don't need backwash since I opened the drain plug right?
BTW, anyone know which size of socket to fit for that springloaded nut? And what is the easy way of loosen/tighten that drain plug? It has two parallel protruded lines, does not look like it is for socket wrench (the pool guy used a plier wrench, which apparently was not the appropriate tool for that either)
BTW, I only have a push/pull valve on the backwash, if you guys can point me to a YT video or thread here to show how to do backwash, i'd much appreciated it as well.
Thanks a lot in advance.
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I would call or email In the Swim to make sure you order the right parts. If you can stop water flow from the skimmers and return by closing valves that is easier than plugging all the openings. Inspect the o-rings before you order parts so you can include that if you need to. The o-ring should not have any cracks or pinched areas and should not feel gummy or sticky to the touch.
If the top doesn't want to come off after the retaining ring is removed, tap around the seam with a rubber mallet. You can place a screwdriver shaft horizontally between the parallel bars on the drain plug to give you leverage to open it.
If the top doesn't want to come off after the retaining ring is removed, tap around the seam with a rubber mallet. You can place a screwdriver shaft horizontally between the parallel bars on the drain plug to give you leverage to open it.
How do i properly release pressure before tackling the clamp? Just turn the thumb wheel on that air bleeder thing.up top? what would be the sign that pressure is released? i asked because the.pool guy seemed to loosen the drain plug first, and nothing happened when he touched the bleeder, no hissing no water pouring out whatsoever.
I would add this to your steps.
Before opening the air relief valve or the drain plug - do your backwash to get the initial debris out of the system. Note the YT video provided by @zea3 . Once you do that preliminary backwash.
Turn off pump at the breaker so it cannot come on.
Open the air relief valve (at top of filter), then open the drain as you noted in your steps. this allows the water to drain out of your filter bottom and all pressure is removed.
NOTE - since you have that weird drain plug, Ensure your air relief valve is OPEN. I have found that a long screwdriver fits between those two parallel protruded lines, You can also use a straight rod or similar object. You will have to make several rotations - it is a PITA but does work. Also remember to check the seal on the drain plug and lube it as well before installation.
Then loosen the nut and spring tension on the retainer ring (your step 4)
You may need to push sideways on the top to free it from the seal. Push slightly sideways and pull up. Try not to push on the gauge or air relief valve as you do not want to damage it.
Clean all debris from bottom of filter through the open drain hole. Just use a hose.
You can replace the bottom drain now if that is convenient to do without the filter top on. remember to lube the seal.
Install the new grid assembly
Wipe down the rubber seal - do not stretch it. Verify it is in good condition and no nicks in it. Lube it before placing on bottom half of filter.
Install the top half of filter but have the air relief valve open.
Install your retainer ring and ensure it is properly placed and a snug fit on both halves of the filter.
Ensure your backwash valve is in "Filter Position".
Turn on your pump and let the air exit out of the air relief valve. As soon as water starts to squirt out - close the air relief valve and pressure should build in the filter.
Check for any leaks
Add DE to skimmer
Hope this helps.
@HermanTX
I thought to open the drain plug and hose everything off is the ultimate cleaning compared to backwashing? Can you elaborate a little on why you suggest backwashing before opening the drain plug? I asked because in the video early on @zea3 linked for the grid installation, the youtuber did not have to work on the drain plug, instead he used backwash. Am I understand it correctly?
From what I can tell, the backwash outlet in my system is not exposed (it goes down into a 4in pvc, connected outside), so I could not easily see the water condition like the YT video did, is there any other measurements to tell when it is enough? Pool guy mentioned 25-30s.
Another thing is for the specific air bleeder (the amazon link I posted two posts above), I assume I should see something when i open it, air hissing or water squirting? Did not see any of those when the pool guy came (if i recalled correctly, he seemed to directly open the drain plug first, not sure how that was possible with the water pressure inside..).
Thanks for all the patience and guidance.
Backwashing is something you should do every 30 days or so or when your filter pressure increases 25% over the "clean" pressure reading. It is important to have functioning pressure gauge. I do mine monthly just to have a schedule. Backwashing is just following the process on the video and adding new DE. You are not opening up the filter or the drain plug.
My suggestion to do a backwash before your major cleaning was simply to rid your grid of debris that is easily washed away. Because once you open the main drain, all that stuff is on your feet.
This is somewhat subjective because every pool is different in amount of debris it captures. My system is closed as well but I do have a small sight-glass on the waste line. Remember that in backwash mode you are draining your pool so you don't want to unnecessarily go a long time which is why the pool tech suggested 30 secs. I do 3 cycles of about 30 secs. each. Meaning I backwash then go back to regular mode then backwash again. Do that once more then add the DE.
So there may be some confusing on terminology. There is a air relief valve noted as #1 in the schematic in your post #27. That is the external air relief and should be opened first after you turn off your pump. It can also be opened while the pump is running but only to remove air from the filter and ensure your filter is filled with water. You need to close it when water starts to squirt out with the pump running. For your major cleaning, once your pump is off, open the air relief to remove pressure in your filter, then remove your drain plug to continue with the main filter cleaning process.
There is also a air vent which is number #43 in your schematic. You also have it circled in the other picture of the grid assembly. You only see it when the filter top is removed and it will not hiss. You need to clean the DE and debris from it. Also, ensure the screen on it is not damaged.
@HermanTX
Thanks for the explanation. So it sounds like if a major cleaning is not needed, I can just use the air bleeder (top of the tank with the gauge connected) to let the air in, and should be able to remove the clamp just like the Youtuber did, and no need to remove the drain plug, correct? The pool guy came last Saturday and did all I described before, opening the drain plug, hose off the old grid and hose the housing too. Can I consider this as a major cleaning done scenario? I was trying to avoid having the bend down to work on that drain plug with limited space I have in the equipment shed...
Another newbie question, so when the pool pump is off for a couple of hours, will the filter tank still maintain the normal pressure (before turning on any air relief valves)? Wonder if it is safter/easier to do this after the pump has been off for a while.
Thanks for the explanation. So it sounds like if a major cleaning is not needed, I can just use the air bleeder (top of the tank with the gauge connected) to let the air in, and should be able to remove the clamp just like the Youtuber did, and no need to remove the drain plug, correct? The pool guy came last Saturday and did all I described before, opening the drain plug, hose off the old grid and hose the housing too. Can I consider this as a major cleaning done scenario? I was trying to avoid having the bend down to work on that drain plug with limited space I have in the equipment shed...
Another newbie question, so when the pool pump is off for a couple of hours, will the filter tank still maintain the normal pressure (before turning on any air relief valves)? Wonder if it is safter/easier to do this after the pump has been off for a while.
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A major cleaning involves removing the filter top and the drain plug. I do not understand why you would not remove the drain plug. Where will all the debris go that you wash down. are you hoping it just floats over the edge of the bottom half of the filter?
There are 2 processes to clean a DE filter.
The first one is done monthly as indicated earlier. This is backwashing which means the filter top stays on and the drain plug stays in. You are simply pushing water flow backwards through your grids and down the waste line (after you pull up on the plunger). You do your desired number of backwash cycles, you will put the plunger back in filter mode, start the pump, bleed air from the system through the air relief valve and add DE.
The second is a major cleaning when you turn off your pump, open the air relief valve, dismantle the filter, remove the drain plug, remove the grids and wash everything down thoroughly. Then reassemble all, start the pump, bleed air from the filter and add DE. I do a major cleaning twice a year. But I have my pool open year round. You may want to do a major cleaning at the start or at the end of your swim season.
What I meant was that the pool guys just did a major cleaning just couple of days ago, I was trying to be lazy about it. But I should, at least, practice to work on that drain plug nontheless, so I'll do it.
Maybe I did not follow what your plan of action is or has been done. This started out whether if you should patch a grid, replace 1 grid or replace them all. what did you do? Regardless, since you were opening up the filter, you should do a thorough cleaning.
Once you put it all back together and add the DE, take note of the filter pressure. That becomes your "clean" starting pointing. If it raises 25% then you need to backwash or set a schedule every 4 weeks, every 6 weeks, whichever works best to do a backwash.
Once you put it all back together and add the DE, take note of the filter pressure. That becomes your "clean" starting pointing. If it raises 25% then you need to backwash or set a schedule every 4 weeks, every 6 weeks, whichever works best to do a backwash.
We found out the hole during the cleaning up pool guy was scheduled to do last Saturday(he opened up the housing, opened the drain plug, took the grid assembly out, hose it off, and then put it back). He only added about 2lbs of DE media because of that hole (not wanting to blow back too much DE into pool). It has been running that way since, while I'm looking into the procedure, correct parts and such. Pool company wants $580 to swap it (I think they were using the regular $400.ish price for the part, but intheswim has 40% off now, so only $250 for the part). I'm now more comfortable doing it myself and will order the part.
Another question is, since I'm swapping it out soon, do I need to add a bit more DE media, not sure if it would significantly make the pool unsanitary or other negative immediate impact on device due to the insufficient DE media. @zea3 mentioned to run it "as is" if plan to swap the whole thing soon, not sure if he meant "as is" with the insufficient DE, or "as is" with the holes but adding more DE. So far I have not noticed the white power being pushed back through return line when starting the pump, maybe it is because the amount added was small.
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- Jun 12, 2011
- 3,767
- Pool Size
- 19500
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pureline Crystal Pure 60,000
After the “pool guys” cleaned it, didn’t DE get added? If so you have all that to wash out. That’s why you always do a backwash before opening a DE filter.