Trouble with SLAM of neglected swampy pool, very cloudy

[Mdragger88]

Check at Walmart for liquid chlorine too - it’s usually the cheapest. U may also wanna call around to pool stores & see if any do the refillable jugs. That’s the cheapest & freshest option for me, its also convenient because they are 2.5 gal at my local place.
To tell if it’s a leak or evaporation u can do the bucket test.

Bucket Test

This is a simple method of leak detection is done by marking water levels on … Read more…

www.google.com

 

[Burke_B]

You may also want to check for liquid chlorine at walmart.com. Here in San Antonio, I can order 10% strength on their website for about $5/gal with next day delivery. If I order at least $35 worth, there is no delivery fee. Age of product has been about 2 weeks with the 2 batches I have ordered.

 

[bc1080]

Thanks for the suggestions. I didn't think about getting the chlorine delivered from Wal-mart, etc., they had been the cheapest option by far previously so I will look into that. Also the bucket test seems so simple, but I probably would have never thought about it haha, will do that to have a good baseline to compare.

Just for an update (sorry I dropped off for a few days, been super busy). We did have the tech come out, they checked some things and installed some new plumbing that I wanted to do anyway. So I now have a valve on the strainer line, which I did not before. They were not able to change the deep port's old gate valve, there were so many past repairs and couplings that there was not enough pipe left to cut off the valve and attach a new one without major modifications. I was thinking of trying to get a seal kit or something and at least change out the guts (it's a 1-1/2" 200 WOG brass gate valve, not too familiar with the trade name/models for these). At least the equipment pad is dry now with no visible seepage.
About the filter, the tech clarified that on our filter he thought under the dome there was a grid or slotted plate, so you did not have access to the sand without taking it apart.
I was wondering during the SLAM, if there was a balance of strainer to deep port suction that you should try to achieve (the deep port was set at about 30% open by the previous owners, but that might have been for their robot that they hooked up at the strainer).
The water is about as clear as it was the last time (can make out a hazy bottom to ~3-4 feet). I noticed what seems to be an increase in the number of smaller particle stuff floating on the surface (doesn't appear to be tree/plant debris), but not sure if that means anything. I stopped at the local pool store to pick up some alkalinity rise (for later when things are more stable), they mentioned something about "too much chlorine being added can cause cloudiness" which I wasn't sure if that was true at all, or if maybe that is only for certain chlorine products.

 

[Mdragger88]

Not sure about the optimal valve settings so I’ll let others chime in on that.
BTW - alk up is just baking soda, probably the most marked up item at the pool store.
No need to increase TA unless it falls below 50.
Large doses of cal hypo can sometimes cause cloudiness but u are using liquid chlorine to do the SLAM Process so not a problem on your radar. As with alot of pool store advice there is a small grain of truth in there. It sounds like if u decide to open the filter completely (take the top half off) you may just wanna replace the sand & start fresh since u have no idea what has been used in the pool. Some say it is possible to access the sand from the little dome but care must be taken to not get sand down in the stand pipe. Maybe someone else with this filter will chime in on their experience. Here’s the parts diagram incase u need to reference it or order any parts

https://hayward-pool-assets.com/assets/documents/pools/pdf/parts-diagrams/S200.pdf

Keep on slamming

 

[bc1080]

Thanks!
I had actually used some cal-hypo originally against the SLAM recommendation (that is what I found locally to initially get the pool from 0FC up to SLAM level), but hadn't put any in for over 2 weeks since I had found the liquid again (I ordered more liquid from Walmart last night as was mentioned at huge savings). Thanks for reminding me about baking soda, I had read about that before from the BBB/TFPC methods, but it slipped my mind. The TA rise wasn't too expensive (I was surprised), but I'm sure still a ton of markup compared to baking soda, lol. I will check again once the water is stabilizing and see if it even needs to be adjusted. The tech suggested that while we obviously want the strainer pulling some water, we should pull most of the flow from the deep port when trying to clear the water (or at least have both on full so the flow is split), he said it "encourages better turnover of the water."

I am inclined to change the sand at the end of the season just because I doubt the previous owners had been maintaining it (probably the original sand and never cleaned, I think the filter's about 6-7 years old). I recently did a really long backwash and rinse and that seemed to have improved the filtering (as far as the results I can see from the outside). Based on that parts diagram I was wondering if that cap thing, part #9, would be removable if the dome was taken off, but hard to tell since it might be attached with a screw or something where it looks like it slip fits over the 90°. Maybe it can be removed but not reinstalled with the sand in or something like that. And it would all depend on whether you could safely avoid getting sand in the standpipe. I guess I can pull off the dome later to check things out, just so I know for the future.

The water was the clearest it has been so far yesterday and I had a surplus of water, so I did a long vacuum session with full suction. Afterward the strainer was about half full of black-looking debris from the bottom (leaves/twigs and junk like that), so there is clearly still some stuff down in the deep end I can't see yet. I tried to go slow, but eventually it stirred things up and the water clouded up some again. I noticed during the vac in the deep end it was kicking up some leaves and stuff that floated around to the shallow end where I could see/get them easier. There was also a sandy looking material in patches in the shallow end again so I made sure I got all of that up I could see, it was the same areas I vac'd before so looks like something is still settling out.

The piping updates seem to have stopped the seeping water leaks around the pump, but I think there is now a small suction leak. I am getting small bursts of bubbles from the returns on occasion and when I turn off the pump sometimes I get a small geyser back out of the strainer. I redid the bead of silicone the tech put around the pump inlet (he put it on when the area was wet so it didn't adhere well) and it got significantly better but not gone.

 

[bc1080]

Good news to report I think! Apologies for the long gap, but I've been still working at the pool as able and I had some family staying at the house and they were helping take care of the water too. A few days after my last post, I went by and suddenly the water was by far the most clear I'd seen. Clear enough to see the bottom liner pattern in the shallows and dark patches of collected junk in deeper spots. There were a couple of large accumulations (the worst at the bottom of the slope to the deep end) and some dusty-looking material stuck on side walls around the deep end. I did thorough vacuuming over several days that got a vast majority of the junk. Some of the stuff down there now I am sure is newer from nearby trees. I have been having some difficulty getting small sticks/twigs and larger leaves out, it is hard to get them with the vac since they float out of the way and will only get sucked up if you cover them dead on with the vac port to get enough suction (and spending a minute to get one leaf or something wastes a lot of water). I ran the previous owner's pool vac and it worked great, but now won't start up after that first cycle (just my luck). For now I picked up a cheap battery robo-vac and it seems to be doing decently, at least on the large debris (doesn't have an actual filter element like the other vac).

I am basically sure there is a leak now though, I put tape and measured it and it dropped 1-1/2" in 24 hours while the bucket only lost about 3/8". I don't think it was leaking this bad earlier in the summer, because I would have picked up on it.
As far as the water, it's gotten pretty clear now and you can see detail even down in the deep end. There might still be a little room for improvement, but I'm pretty pleased with how it looks so far.
I think if this holds and passes the OCL test, it should be time to lower the FC level. I'll then try to balance out the rest of the water chemistry. I'm trying to decide about what to do at this point and whether to try to add salt and get the salt water cell to come on and stabilize, since we'll probably have to start closing the pool up in a few weeks.
With all this trouble so far I have not looked into the closing process much. We have a pretty warm climate (north Alabama), so I think there are things you can get away with here and not have to go through as much detailed freeze protection and stuff like that.

 

[Mdragger88]

Good news to report I think! Apologies for the long gap, but I've been still working at the pool as able and I had some family staying at the house and they were helping take care of the water too. A few days after my last post, I went by and suddenly the water was by far the most clear I'd seen. Clear enough to see the bottom liner pattern in the shallows and dark patches of collected junk in deeper spots. There were a couple of large accumulations (the worst at the bottom of the slope to the deep end) and some dusty-looking material stuck on side walls around the deep end. I did thorough vacuuming over several days that got a vast majority of the junk. Some of the stuff down there now I am sure is newer from nearby trees. I have been having some difficulty getting small sticks/twigs and larger leaves out, it is hard to get them with the vac since they float out of the way and will only get sucked up if you cover them dead on with the vac port to get enough suction (and spending a minute to get one leaf or something wastes a lot of water). I ran the previous owner's pool vac and it worked great, but now won't start up after that first cycle (just my luck). For now I picked up a cheap battery robo-vac and it seems to be doing decently, at least on the large debris (doesn't have an actual filter element like the other vac).

I am basically sure there is a leak now though, I put tape and measured it and it dropped 1-1/2" in 24 hours while the bucket only lost about 3/8". I don't think it was leaking this bad earlier in the summer, because I would have picked up on it.
As far as the water, it's gotten pretty clear now and you can see detail even down in the deep end. There might still be a little room for improvement, but I'm pretty pleased with how it looks so far.
I think if this holds and passes the OCL test, it should be time to lower the FC level. I'll then try to balance out the rest of the water chemistry. I'm trying to decide about what to do at this point and whether to try to add salt and get the salt water cell to come on and stabilize, since we'll probably have to start closing the pool up in a few weeks.
With all this trouble so far I have not looked into the closing process much. We have a pretty warm climate (north Alabama), so I think there are things you can get away with here and not have to go through as much detailed freeze protection and stuff like that.

I don’t live as far south as you & looking at the extended weather forecast I don’t expect to close until around Halloween this year. To prevent a swampy swamp in the spring it’s best to close after the water temp is in the low 60’s & open before it rises above the low 60’s. Currently my water temp is 79 degrees so I have a ways to go here. It can still get below freezing during the off season (last year my pool froze solid) so it’s best to take all the same precautions to prevent damage. Even up here - in North Mississippi, some folks choose to just keep the pool open & make sure it’s running when freezing temps are predicted. (Some pools have freeze protection settings in their automation).
If you take that route it is best to have a plan & be ready to winterize on the fly incase of power failure as many of our Texas members learned. If debris is a problem before the water temps are in line you can “soft” close by just deploying the cover but waiting on everything else & maintain fc. You will want to have a cover pump implemented to prevent water displacement. I generally do this & it makes closing less of a hassle because it is broken up over a couple weekends.
Here’s the closing guide so you can get an idea of what’s involved

Closing an In Ground Pool

Winterizing a pool is essential for keeping your in-ground pool protected during cold-weather months. This Pool Repair guide will show you how to do it.

www.google.com

 

[duraleigh]

Did you find and fix the leak?

 

[bc1080]

Sorry I dropped offline for a while again.
Thanks for the info, I have been slow on getting to the closing writeups but will be learning quick now and that is a good start. Around here a lot of people are already closing their pools (at least ones with pool companies), but my water temp is ~75° and should be warmer except for all the cool city water added.
There were a lot of issues with yard junk getting under the cover and into the pool before. The cover we inherited looks like a tight woven mesh that water appears to go through instead of collect on. I've been looking for a way to hold down or seal the liner better, but sandbags might just be the easiest thing.

Water update:
Still looking clear. I had started reducing the FC level a little, but I noticed a few areas of a greenish film on the walls so going to keep it high for a bit longer and work on scrubbing. I have not been able to brush/vac the pool as much and as effectively recently due to having to work OT and having less daylight. I plan to do the OCT before trying to reduce the levels to normal.
Just for future reference (not sure if this lines up to other's experiences), I found that turning the skimmer flow down to a lower level where it still functions well and leaving the deep port full open seemed to improve overall water filtering. Also found the cheap robo-vac is much more limited than I thought. It picks up large items like leaves but small particulates just disperse in the water, appearing gone but just settles back out later. I think I need to get a different type of vac attachment, I have one of the triangular ones with brushes around, ok for light scrubbing but the suction seems fairly poor (having to bullseye objects to get them to suck up). The construction dust mentioned before seems to have gotten worse, to the point where if you take a leaf blower to a flat surface you can kick up a dust cloud.

No luck yet on the leak. I saw a long "scratched" area but the tech said it was "pH damage." When the water was really calm I noticed a few more areas where it's hard to tell if it is a small nick/puncture on the bottom or just a wrinkle or illusion. I am not sure how the leak started and why it's been getting worse, but it's just frustrating overall as another thing to deal with (that's expensive no matter what we do). We are kind of at the mercy of having someone come out to check it right now. I have been trying to hire a recommended guy that swims the pool and look for leaks, but can't get him on the phone. I tried to measure the loss with the pump on and off to confirm it’s the liner, and it was odd. It still lost a lot of water with the pump off but not the same amount (but it also started lower). Having the pump off for 2 days for this test may have helped the algae restart too. I have noticed it seems like the more I try to keep the pool topped up near "full" the more water is lost. It almost seems like the leak slows down as the water drops. Our water usage last month was 20k gallons, and there is no one even living in the house.