avn

Member
Jul 12, 2016
11
New Hampshire
A few years before the pandemic, I had a gunnite pool built with SWG, CO2, Concrete Deck and Auto-Cover safety cover which is hidden away similar to this:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8d/3a/c8/8d3ac8857b6895ecf78cb7bdf6744546.jpg

The pool had a 5 year warranty. Nearly 4 years into ownership, my tiles started coming off. I have two rows of 3"x3" porcelain tiles. I sent my PB an email and they ignored me. I didn't think much of it then because a few tiles was not a big deal. Today about 30 - 40% of the top row is off or gonna come off soon. The bottom row is all fine - none have fallen off.

Back to my issue: The top row of tiles abuts the aluminum auto-cover rail with grout between them. Above the aluminum rail is the 4" concrete deck. I am 99% sure the aluminum auto-cover rail was screwed to the top of the concrete beam with no flexible material between them. Is this normal installation procedures for really cold-weather installations?

I always have kept my pool balanced. I always keep the water level well below the tiles during the winter. This was not a budge pool my friends!!!! The auto-cover was $10 alone! I follow ALL of the PB rules and all of the rules here. I feel that because the bottom row of tiles are totally fine that any doubts of my water chemistry and possibility of winter ice is out-the-door. They would be falling off too.

I've gotten three estimates including my PB. All over $10k. They all said they would tear out all old tiles, prep and re-tile with brand new tiles, and put silicone between the top tile and aluminum rail above it. I'm skeptical. Silicone, really? I asked if this was going to occur again and they all said 'I hope not'. I feel much more confident now. I asked them all if it was installed correctly and none of them would give me a straight answer.

Was this installed correctly? How should I handle my warranty? I emailed them before it expired with pictures. Only now, they are happy to talk to me about fixing it. I don't know how to approach them politely and with intent that they are responsible for this? Are they responsible?
 

Attachments

  • 20250408_110953.jpg
    20250408_110953.jpg
    355.4 KB · Views: 14
  • 20250408_111026.jpg
    20250408_111026.jpg
    330.3 KB · Views: 15
  • 20250408_111427.jpg
    20250408_111427.jpg
    334.6 KB · Views: 15
  • 20250408_111436.jpg
    20250408_111436.jpg
    277.2 KB · Views: 15
  • 20250408_111445.jpg
    20250408_111445.jpg
    295.6 KB · Views: 15
  • deck.jpg
    deck.jpg
    23.1 KB · Views: 14
  • corner.jpg
    corner.jpg
    191.5 KB · Views: 13
  • side.jpg
    side.jpg
    159.1 KB · Views: 12
There are many areas where the thinset on the tiles or shell look very thin and a few areas where the thinset is thick.

I suspect that you have water that gets behind the tiles. Over time it can erode the thinset. And then when the water freezes in the winter it lossens the tile and eventually pops them off.

Thinset should be applied to the mortar bed with a notched trowel, and the backside of the tile should be "buttered" with a thin layer of thinset to ensure 100% contact between the tile, thinset, and mortar bed and be free or air pockets.

The coping mortar and grout lines must be maintained so that water cannot get behind the tiles.


Tile_Application.jpg
 
So how would you approach this situation with PB?
As his customer, a good builder would offer to do the repairs for a discount..

See if you can get him to do the $10K job for $8K. But you want the $10K quality, not the shoddy $8K tile work.

Shoddy work comes from not properly preparing the surfaces. Old thinset needs to be cleaned off down to gunite using a oscillating tool.

A good layer of thinset needs to be on the shell and tile. Quick work puts a blob of thinset on the tile and pushes it onto the wall to glue it on. You don't get 100% adherence and coverage.

Are the old tiles going to be reused or new tiles installed?

You will only know what quality work you are getting by supervising the job.
 
New tiles.
It's difficult to supervise a crew that does this every day. It's an uncomfortable situation for them and myself. i'm paying for the work to be done right. This is not cheap. I will have to make friends for the day. Buy them pizza? beer?
 
New tiles.
It's difficult to supervise a crew that does this every day. It's an uncomfortable situation for them and myself. i'm paying for the work to be done right. This is not cheap. I will have to make friends for the day. Buy them pizza? beer?
Pizza good. I would not do the beer during working hours.

@setsailsoon described how he managed his contractors during his pool build and built to tight tolerances. Maybe he will share some advice.
 
Pizza good. I would not do the beer during working hours.

@setsailsoon described how he managed his contractors during his pool build and built to tight tolerances. Maybe he will share some advice.
This is a tough one since you're not able to be there. And you're right you're paying the contractor to supervise. I would start with the PB and tell him directly you're concerned about tolerances. Some out of level is always controlled with minor changes in thinset thickness. Ask him how he's going to control this. I offered lunch brought in for achieving milestones of progress and quality. They used a water level to check elevations and I double-checked it with a zip level. Most contractors don't use them because they're costly and almost too accurate. So I'd leave the zip level out there for them to use. It was way easier to use and more convenient for them. The other thing I did was provided a bathroom for them. It's amazing how many contractors don't ask for this. Some provide a portapotty but a real bathroom is way better. What you want is to set up an environment that's "the best job" they have going for the workers and also make sure they know somebody is checking their quality every day. If the PB has a lead or foreman work with him to figure out how to motivate and help him get the best quality plus make the job site one they all want to go to.

I hope this helps.

Chris