Thread number 10000 on CYA and in-line chlorinator

[Surfnsnowboard3]

So I've been reading through the forum on this issue and see a TON of threads about it. Nonetheless, I'll make another one on the issue with the question...

How long will it take via evaporation, kids splashing, automatic refill via fresh water to get CYA level down to 30-50ppm?

Background...I am in Southern California with summers up to 100 degrees and winter below zero (elevation 2500 feet). Pool was built last summer, non-salt pool, with a Rainbow In-Line Chlorinator with Clorox 3" Xtra Blue tabs in the chlorinator. No other chlorine other than a weekly shock of Clorox Shock XtraBlue. I have had zero issues visibly with the pool and up until a week ago, been using Aquachek test strips with all levels in the ideal range (after adjustments). This included a CYA level on the strip at 30-50 range. I had never seen it higher until....

Starting about a month ago, I had trouble maintaining a chlorine level of 3ppm using the in-line chlorinator, despite it being on the max setting. AFter much research, this could have been due to the Rainbow 320 plumbed on the bottom thread and the fact my VS pump wasn't at high enough RPM. Yesterday, I moved the plumbing to the top and increased my RPM throughout the 8-hour run time each day.

I also decided to get my levels tested at Leslie's for the first time 5 days ago, which showed:

FC-3
TC-3
ph-7.4
TA-57
CH-100
CYA-70
Iron-0
Copper-0
Phospahtes-1000
TDS-650

I also bought a Taylor K-2006 test kit and measured the last three days, which resulted in the following results:

FC-2.6
CC-.4
PH-7.2
TA-90
Calcium-170
CYA-120

What I find interesting is the CYA of Leslie's vs Taylor being so far apart despite being within 2 days of each other.

CONCLUSION

I am going to start buying liquid chlorine and only using the chlorinator as a maintenance thing if I got out of town. My question is, do I have to drain the pool or how long would it take to get my CYA down to "normal" levels via evaporation, splash out, etc.?

Thanks!

 

[mknauss]

To go from a CYA of 120 to 50 in the desert will take about a year. Evaporation does not count.

 

[mknauss]

Quit using the Blue products or you will have copper staining very soon. They have copper in them.

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

How long will it take via evaporation, kids splashing, automatic refill via fresh water to get CYA level down to 30-50ppm?

Trust your own test results. The Pool $tore wants to sell you tablets.

Do you have any challenges to doing a partial drain/refill?

Your CH seems real low for a So Cal pool that's had water in for more than a year. You either have super low CH water or you're topping off with a water softener. You might want to double check your testing method.

 

[Surfnsnowboard3]

Trust your own test results. The Pool $tore wants to sell you tablets.

Do you have any challenges to doing a partial drain/refill?

Your CH seems real low for a So Cal pool that's had water in for more than a year. You either have super low CH water or you're topping off with a water softener. You might want to double check your testing method.

I've never done a drain/refill before (pool less than a year old). I have a cartridge filter. I assume the only way to drain would be siphon hose from pool to street?

What's interesting about the CH is I had crazy scale in less than a year. A month ago I hired a pro to glass bead the scale away. Low and behold, the CH level is actually LOW, how is scale buildup possible?

To answer your question, I confirmed three times on Taylor Kit CH is 170. I bough Calcium Chloride, which I'll be adding after I get the alkalinity up (waiting for Baking soda to get delivered today).

 

[Surfnsnowboard3]

To go from a CYA of 120 to 50 in the desert will take about a year. Evaporation does not count.

Wow, long time. Looks like I'll be draining and refilling. How much should I drain? 14,800 gallon pool. Also, what's fastest way to drain? Long hose from pool to street? I've done that before (when pool got full with rain) and it drizzled out at a very slow rate so I'd imagine that would take way too long.

 

[mknauss]

At least half of the volume. Where are you in So cal?

 

[Surfnsnowboard3]

At least half of the volume. Where are you in So cal?

Redlands

 

[mknauss]

OK -- not the desert but not the coast. Please add that to your location.

I would target a CYA of 50. Using liquid chlorine you will be good. The CYA will go down a bit each month to let you use some pucks if you leave for awhile. I would suggest getting some plain trihclor pucks.

How did you get the CYA of 120? Did you do the dilution method?

 

[Surfnsnowboard3]

Yes, the method where I fill half with tap water and half pool water, then double the results. I seemed to lose the dot between 50-60. The dot plays tricks on my eyes. What is kinda of crazy to me is Leslie's being so low a few days prior. I kind of want to go back to Leslie's, but if it's low again, I am going to go nuts. My Aquachek confirms around 100 range...

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

What's interesting about the CH is I had crazy scale in less than a year. A month ago I hired a pro to glass bead the scale away. Low and behold, the CH level is actually LOW, how is scale buildup possible?

I don't want to get in Marty's way as you discuss a water exchange, but take some time later to read up on CSI and Scaling. There's nothing showing in your current chemistry that points that indicates a tendency towards scaling. But, even with perfect chemistry, scaling will occur as a result of evaporation at the waterline. Maintaining a CSI in the range of 0.0 to -0.30 is the best you can do.

Calcium Scaling

Calcium scale on your pool is something we all want to avoid. With some elbow grease and a pumice stone for pools we can help you remove this eyesore.

www.troublefreepool.com

Calcium Saturation Index (CSI)

How is CSI calculated? Very simple – use our PoolMath tool. To ensure long plaster life and save money, click here to learn more.

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[jg73]

If you want a reference to your original question, In Austin TX, it took me 2 years to get my CYA down from off the charts. One empty half way and refill got me back on the scale. You have to rent a pump to do this. You can not empty a pool using your circulation system, in most cases. The bottom drain is plumbed into the skimmer. So once you go below the skimmer it will start sucking air. Besides, it is not the right type of pump, so don't put the strain on it. After the refill, I just did regular backwash. Some big rainstorms helped me out a lot, but I don't know if you get those. If I could have done it without making the entire village angry, I would have drained a second time. You can see my pool stats in the signature for reference.

 

[mknauss]

What is kinda of crazy to me is Leslie's being so low a few days prior.

No surprise there. I personally do not even look at pool store data when members post it.

If you plan to drain some water, I suggest you consider a No Drain Water Exchange. See Draining - Further Reading

 

[Surfnsnowboard3]

A friend of mine said I could drain from my pump...here’s what he said. Will this work?

Ok you can actually use your pool pump, take the drain plug under the filter off and install a 1.5 male hose cuff adaptor, 3$ at home depot, then put your hose and pool cleaner together, hook it up to the skimmer, put it in the deep end, and attach anothrt 50ft hose to the bottom of the filter housing , turn it on and watch it lower fast

 

[mknauss]

You can. But, if your pump loses prime, is it worth burning up a $1000 pump? And, are you willing to let your plaster dry out in our summer heat and sun? Plaster does crack and fail if left dry. Up to you.
If you want to drain instead of exchange, you can rent a high power sump pump from Home Depot. Start late afternoon, pump it out fast, and start filling. If any plaster is exposed in the morning sit out there and use a hose end sprayer to keep it wet.

 

[Surfnsnowboard3]

You can. But, if your pump loses prime, is it worth burning up a $1000 pump? And, are you willing to let your plaster dry out in our summer heat and sun? Plaster does crack and fail if left dry. Up to you.
If you want to drain instead of exchange, you can rent a high power sump pump from Home Depot. Start late afternoon, pump it out fast, and start filling. If any plaster is exposed in the morning sit out there and use a hose end sprayer to keep it wet.

I won’t risk it. Only question I have on the drain/fill method is my skimmer is on my deep end. Where should I fill from? Deep or shallow end?

 

[mknauss]

Did you read the article I linked to?
"To determine whether you pump from the deep end of the pool or from near the surface of the pool, depends on your fill and pool water characteristic.

Adding water to the deep end while pumping from a top step or near the surface is recommended if your fill water is much colder (>20F) then the pool water.

Put the pump in the deep end and fill from the shallow end if your fill water is nearly the same temperature as the pool water, you have a saltwater pool, or have very high CH. Put the fill hose in the skimmer, if you have one, in the shallow end. If no skimmer, then use a bucket to put the water hose in and have the top of the bucket above the pool water surface. Be sure to secure the hose to the bucket."

 

[Surfnsnowboard3]

Did you read the article I linked to?
"To determine whether you pump from the deep end of the pool or from near the surface of the pool, depends on your fill and pool water characteristic.

Adding water to the deep end while pumping from a top step or near the surface is recommended if your fill water is much colder (>20F) then the pool water.

Put the pump in the deep end and fill from the shallow end if your fill water is nearly the same temperature as the pool water, you have a saltwater pool, or have very high CH. Put the fill hose in the skimmer, if you have one, in the shallow end. If no skimmer, then use a bucket to put the water hose in and have the top of the bucket above the pool water surface. Be sure to secure the hose to the bucket."

It’s clear as mud.

One sentence says “Put the pump in the deep end and fill from the shallow end if your fill water is nearly the same temperature as the pool water...” while the next sentence says “put the fill hose in the skimmer, if you gave one, in the shallow end.” I do have a skimmer, in the deep end. So which is it? Put in skimmer in deep end or fill in shallow end.

 

[mknauss]

What are the characteristics of your water? Will you be pumping from the deep end or from the surface?

 

[Surfnsnowboard3]

What are the characteristics of your water? Will you be pumping from the deep end or from the surface?

I’m officially lost lol. The characteristics of my water is the temp between my fill and my pool is nowhere near over a 20 degree difference.
And I have no clue where I’d be filling from. I gathered I’ll be draining from the deep end with the submersible pump. I don’t understand the whole attach a hose to a bucket thing.

I attached a photo of my pool.