Thought it was mustard, now not so sure

[PowerPigg!!]

I began SLAM process 5 days ago to address what appears to be mustard algae, but now I wonder if I have misidentified what I have, and have the additional complication of having slacked in frequency of chlorine upkeep due to emergency work time demands since Wednesday.

My logs are shared so all the details are there, but the main detail I am wondering about is that in the last 5 days, chlorine level never dipped below 13 ppm (pool water at CYA 50 confirmed just before SLAM). Each time chlorine has dipped slightly, a small yellow cloud(maybe beige or brownish?) Swirls behind my brush as I push it across the floor. I push it to the filter intakes and if I do that throughout the day after getting back to 20 ppm, it seems to go away. Yet from what I read, 13 ppm at CYA 50 would be too high for mustard to spontaneously show up, right?

Most annoying thing of this is that the pool was very clear 2 days ago and passed OCLT, and I was getting ready to do the 24-hour extra high chlorine level when life threw a wrench into the process. Two days of waiting too long between chlorine adjustments, and no brushing in that time, and I wake up to a pool that appears clear but the bottom has a pale yellow tinge everywhere. It makes me wonder if mustard algae actually behaves like this, or if I am instead dealing with pollen or even recently-added iron in water?

I have three days where I can pay proper attention to the SLAM, but I've decided to check in first for guidance, in case I'm fighting the wrong thing, or it's the right thing but I underestimated the aggressiveness of this problem.

Additional note: whatever this mess is, I am almost certain what started it--I installed an Intex skimmer from my shed to capture a huge amount of no-see-ums and other tiny bugs that were requiring me to skim manually 2-3 times daily. It had been in there since last season and I may not have sufficiently cleaned it first because this started within hours of adding that thing.

 

[Mdragger88]

If it “poofs” it’s algae.
If it were pollen there would also be equal amounts of pollen on everything else (deck, chairs, tables etc)
Iron would likely change the water color of the whole pool & wouldn’t move around. It would also get worse w/ the addition of more fc.
If it is mustard algae there is no exact fc below slam level at which it reappears, same with regular algae, they both can & will continue to proliferate below slam level for your cya, albeit at a slower rate.
Keeping up the SLAM Process is the way to eradicate it.
Replenish fc as often as possible to get the upper hand then, after passing all 3 end of slam criteria, raise to mustard algae fc levels for 24 hrs to deliver the final blow incase of MA.
Follow all the instructions

Mustard Algae

Today We are going to show you how you can get rid of mustard algae in your pool. By following the steps in this guide and with no expensive chemicals.

www.google.com

The brushing & vacuuming daily is very important as it disrupts the biofilms algae forms to protect itself from chlorine.

 

[PowerPigg!!]

But this is my confusion exactly... is it specific to mustard algae for it to pop up so quickly after a dip in chlorine levels that is still far above the high range of normal FC levels? How have those levels kept my water clear until I installed the skimmer from the shed, and now suddenly FC levels 2x that amount allow for it to grow?

And also, why is it showing up all over the floor of the pool this morning even with 2 hours of morning sun on it? Wouldn't direct sunlight restrict how mustard algae manifests?

 

[Mdragger88]

I can’t see your logs, it’s possible you aren’t signed in to poolmath w/ this tfp login. @Leebo can possibly get the two merged if that’s the case.
If u have algae, you have dipped below minimum for your cya at some point in some part of the pool which then allowed it to proliferate at a rate faster than your subsequent fc levels could control it. Clear water doesn’t necessarily mean algae free. That’s why there’s 3 end of slam criteria.
You were obviously getting close before you slacked up because u passed an oclt.
It could just be regular algae, it can be many colors including brown & yellow. Doing the MA protocol at the end is more of insurance if u suspect MA.
Be sure to check/scrub all the nooks & crannies, ladders/steps, flaps in liner seams, skimmer weir door/foam etc.
it was hiding somewhere

 

[Mdragger88]

Those little cartridges get overwhelmed easily.
Vacuuming to waste (very slowly to prevent stirring things up) can be beneficial to get the bulk of organic debris out.
You can use your vac hose,head & pole as a siphon, so u can bypass the pump.
W/ the head & pole in the water & connected to the hose, feed the hose into the water until completely submerged & no more bubbles, then quickly hold your hand over the end of the hose & throw it on the ground outside the pool - this should create a siphon. U will lose water so be sure to run the hose if the pump is also running at this time to prevent it from running dry.

 

[PowerPigg!!]

Seems you are right about my forum login and my poolmath login not being synced, even though this forum profile seems automatically tied to my Google login when signing in to the app. I tried logging in to the app with just email and pw and it did not recognize my premium subscription though. If there's a way to merge the two I'd appreciate the help with that.

In the mean time, let me try posting the shareable link here:

Link to pool logs

 

[Mdragger88]

Hopefully @Leebo will be able to merge those accounts for u.
It looks like about 18 days ago u dipped below minimum, Which possibly allowed algae to grow. Then u slammed & passed the exit criteria? but didn’t raise to ma level? So perhaps it wasn’t fully eradicated.
At any rate slam on & then follow ma protocol.
Also, why do u use so much polyquat?
Have u been having recurring issues?
Polyquat is generally only recommended for closing or in an instance of doing an AA treatment when fc is low.

 

[PowerPigg!!]

Also, why do u use so much polyquat?
Have u been having recurring issues?
Polyquat is generally only recommended for closing or in an instance of doing an AA treatment when fc is low.

In past seasons this was in fact a recurring issue every summer. I was honestly surprised when people would comment on this forum how rare mustard algae was with the TFP method because it seems a nice serving of mustard has always been an ingredient in my pool sandwich.

I was hoping a maintenance level of Polyquat 60 would be helpful in helping me control these issues, and in fact this was looking to be my first SLAM-free year. It's only when I heeded forum guidance and stopped putting it in that this problem surged. Not sure what you mean by "so much" though, I'd only been using the minimum doses for my pool size (look again and notice the percent concentration).

In fact, I was going to ask whether adding a starting dose of poly might retard growth of any algae currently there in hopes that the SLAM goes more smoothly going forward, or whether SLAM levels of FC might impact its ability to work.

 

[Mdragger88]

By “so much” I was referring to the frequency. If it was helping prevent these issues then go for it. Just wanted a full picture of the situation.
Yes, Polyquat effectiveness is reduced by elevated fc levels as chlorine is an oxidizer & it oxidizes some of the polyquat 60 .
When used for closing it is recommended to add it after fc has dropped to 1/2 way between target & slam level.
Have u ever done the MA protocol before?
Often it is suggested to keep fc elevated to 15% of the cya level & maintain that for some time after the slam & ma protocol is done if MA is a recurring/common issue.
Just how long is different for everyone. Perhaps dipping below that is what allowed it to rear it’s ugly head once again.

Chlorine/CYA Chart

EDIT: You will find a simplified and standardized version of this chart at Pool School, Chlorine / CYA Chart. Chlorine/CYA Chart by Chemgeek FC = Free Chlorine in parts-per-million (ppm) CYA = Cyanuric Acid in parts-per-million (ppm) CYA ........... Min FC3 ..... Target FC ...... Yel/Mstrd...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[PowerPigg!!]

I have followed the MA protocol as explained in the pool school (the one posted above), but it mentions nothing about the need to maintain 15% FC/CYA ratio for an extended period of time. Maybe that's why I keep failing. If that's a final piece of the process, I would recommend it be included in the pool school article.

For my CYA 50 level then, I'm looking at maintaining no less that 8 ppm at all times for "some time". Are we talking days? Weeks? How do I know when my pool is back to normal. Or given my history, should I just simply assume that's my actual minimum FC going forward?

Say I don't put another drop of poly in my pool, and complete the full MA process without error--I am as thorough as the process requires and I miss nothing. Is subsequently staying above 15% FC/CYA a guarantee that mustard algae subsequently reintroduced will not grow? Or is that 15% ratio a lower bound-- meaning, when my pump is not on, and I'm unlucky enough for a small section of my pool to dip before that level, it's that enough for reintroduced algae to take hold? I guess what I am having trouble reconciling that, on the one hand, mustard algae is really rare, and on the other hand, it has a really easy time growing in a pool (otherwise this post-SLAM protocol would not be necessary). What an I missing? Are just some areas more prone to this kind of issue than others? Some climates or pool types?

And as for the advice to stop using poly, it's this because it will just not do any good? Or because adding poly to the equation is more expensive than a LC only strategy which is equally effective? Because in my case, I have to also put a value on the likelihood that any protective buffer the poly might provide will actually prevent days of constant SLAM pool work, or the risk that an unexpected long work day costs me a 3-day weekend devoted to SLAM.

I'm just really tired of hating my pool instead of being proud of it like so many here. I really want to get to the trouble-free part, and, aside from the three months that I used poly, I can't say I've really been there in 4 years. I enjoy this forum because people are kind and helpful when help is needed, but I feel like I'm usually in crisis mode with my pool all the time.

 

[PowerPigg!!]

I took a picture of the stuff I keep skimming off the surface of the water, in case this is useful info in confirming a mustard algae problem, or pointing out something else I may be dealing with.

When I touch this stuff, it felt neither gritty nor slimy or greasy. It just kind of feel apart in my fingers. This is pretty much always on the surface on my pool since about 3 weeks back, including these last 5 days SLAMming. I skim a lot of this off every day.

 

[Mdragger88]

It’s cottonwood season. Thats what that looks like to me.
Also, the original chart/thread I posted at the bottom of my last post is linked in the MA article & lists the MA min. It is also linked at the bottom of the FC/CYA Levels page. There is further info in post #6 about MA as well. It’s not all printed on the main chart for simplicity, since MA isn’t that common of an issue.
Basically, if you go below the MA minimum & MA returns then you return to maintaining the MA minimum. There is no specific amount of time, it is different for all pools due to various environmental factors. Many do the MA protocol & ma never returns. If u notice, MA minimum generally falls within the high target range on the regular FC/CYA Levels. The general advice here is to dose to the high target for your cya to prevent broaching minimum anyway vs skirting minimum which is a risky game.
There’s no harm in using the polyquat 60 in concurrence with the ma min or at normal target fc levels if that works for you.
It is just an added expense that is generally not necessary on a regular basis for most so it’s not often recommended here except in certain circumstances (closing, during certain metal/stain treatments).
The Polyquat 60 is at best a preventative, a little insurance if u will, not the cure for algae. Algeacides will not overcome an active algae problem. Polyquat 60 is the only algeacide recommended on this forum because it doesn’t also add things that shouldn’t be in your pool water. Chlorine is the cure for algae.
I hope I have helped u understand the recommendations a little better.

 

[PowerPigg!!]

Update on SLAM:

Brushed walls and floor three times throughout day and evening yesterday. FC never dipped below 18 ppm.

This morning FC was actually higher than it was last night. I put the dichlor floater in overnight to counteract overnight loss. Still would have expected some loss instead of a chlorine gain, so might be time to OCLT tonight. Yellowish brown trail following brush on floor only, fainter than yesterday at same time; pool otherwise looks very clear this morning after vacuuming and brushing. More of the same substance seen in the pic above. I waited for it to dry out this time and it felt gritty to the touch. Also seeing tiny white and yellow flowers occasionally falling, so I will be accounting for pollen as I continue SLAM. Will vacuum and brush fully again this afternoon, and continue to watch fc usage during the day.

Water flow from pump appears undiminished, but it does not have a pressure gauge so I will check the filter this afternoon.

I will be following the full MA protocol as described once done with the SLAM measures. I am really hopeful that my going back to normal FC range rather than the actual 15% minimum might prove to be the key to my past troubles.

I'm attaching a pic of the pool's current state. I assume I shouldn't consider the pool clear for end of SLAM until that brownish trail when brushing the floor no longer appears, correct?

 

[Mdragger88]

I assume I shouldn't consider the pool clear for end of SLAM until that brownish trail when brushing the floor no longer appears, correct?

Correct. Along with passing the Overnight Chlorine Loss Test & cc’s of 0.5 or less. Then go to MA level for 24 hrs & throw all your pool stuffs in the pool for a couple hours (floats, toys, poles - everything). After that 24 hrs reduce to ma minimum at the least.
At MA slam levels I noticed that what remained of my brownish/orange accumulation turned grey & once removed to waste never re-accumulated. This is likely due to the beta carotene that ma has & it is resistant to lower fc levels.
Anything gritty/not slimy is likely pollen/fluff/dirt.
I collect brownish/yellowish stuff daily in my skimmer sock- it’s cotton wood fluff & dust from all the beige crushed concrete around my yard

 

[Mdragger88]

When i dealt with the MA i had completed slam - (with clear water the entire time, except a little “dirt” on the floor every morning ) passed all 3 end of slam criteria & fc had fallen to just below min ma level. I had decided that the recurring spots were orange dirt as they were only on the floor where the wrinkles/divots were & never fully left (we had just filled our backyard with many truckloads of orangy/beige crushed concrete). But when the fc dropped it accumulated more! So i then knew it was definitely something that was growing & immediately went to MA slam level. I have pretty much always maintained fc around MA min in normal times as I like a buffer - it’s likely the reason my pool wasn’t an orange monster.
My steps were harboring the creature in the nooks & crannies. Removing them, scrubbing them & making modifications to them to increase water flow & be able to make periodic scrubbing possible while they’re still in the pool coupled with the steps above have allowed me to remain MA free.
I have never used polyquat.

 

[PowerPigg!!]

At MA slam levels I noticed that what remained of my brownish/orange accumulation turned grey & once removed to waste never re-accumulated.

That is consistent with what I have seen today--very clearly gray rather than brownish residue when vacuuming, and a steady reduction in the amount visible.

I'll be brushing more frequently throughout the day to keep remaining algae in circulation or pushed to filter intakes as much as possible. Family wants to use the pool this afternoon so I'll be reducing FC to slightly under SLAM level for safety.

 

[PowerPigg!!]

Update on progress:

In honor our nation's birth and declaration of its intent to blaze its own path forward, my wife declared independence from my suggestions that the pool remain closed for the remainder of this three day weekend. The only acceptable-ish mention of mustard was in response to "Your hot dog's ready! What do you want on it?"

So, SLAM has been paused repeatedly as I let FC drift down to about 16-18 while people bathe, then add until stable level just over SLAM is set for the night. Currently the pool is showing no brush trails, and while it's a bit cloudy from today's use, the filter or a quick vacuum tomorrow morning will take care of it. With luck, I'll pass OCLT tomorrow night and can then start the critical 24 hour MA period.

Am I correct in suspecting that I might have introduced mustard algae (or added more) from an Intex skimmer I introduced to the pool after being kept in storage since last season? If so, is it safe to stick it into MA SLAM water for brushing and keep it there a few hours, or is it better to clean it separately with a chlorine solution?

 

[Mdragger88]

Glad u had a great 4th !
It’s definitely possible that skimmer reintroduced it. That stuff is tough. Really anything that was stored from last year or used this year is suspect, floaties, toys, life jackets, vac hoses - throw em all in @ ma slam level for a couple hours. Be sure to wash everyone’s suits.
I assume the skimmer is installed now, u could spray & scrub it with a 50/50 bleach water solution & rinse it well - take care to rinse the surrounding liner. Check the foam in the weir door too - like take it out, scrub, replace.
During slam I always be sure to scrub everything when I’m in the pool with a little brush & slam level water multiple times throughout the process.
I feel like we covered this but I’ll mention it again- don’t forget any flaps in the liner where the seams meet. Some intex style pools have more than others . Double check that u got em all while u are at slam level. Then after slam - scrub them regularly.
If u have the intex A frame ladder - throw the whole thing in the pool at ma slam level to be sure u got both sides.
Hopefully these steps along with maintenance ma fc levels will prevent re-occurence.
SLAM ON

 

[PowerPigg!!]

No weir door to worry about for this Intex AGP, but this removable skimmer does have its share of hard to reach nooks. A trusty old toothbrush is on hand for this.

I appreciate the reminder about those flaps; I have in fact been mindful of these. I will dive in and take to those with the toothbrush a a final check, in case some of the pockets are too deep for the normal size pool brush to get in there correctly.

I thought I was being paranoid with my thoughts of throwing the entire ladder into the pool. Turns out I'm finally being paranoid enough.

 

[PowerPigg!!]

It's been nearly 3 weeks since my last post, during which I complete slam and a 36 hour period of maintaining the extra high FC level recommended for mustard algae. Yes I was being paranoid, but turns out not paranoid enough.

That was followed by maintaining a minimum of 9 FC until yesterday morning, when I decided to not add chlorine, estimating it would dip to 8 by this morning. Today I wake up to several patches of algae. It rained heavily yesterday which might have added stuff from the trees around the pool, and I must assume that maybe the bottom of the pool was at a lower level of chlorine maybe?

I know someone will post that I should have been thorough. Please follow that up with a suggestion that is not any of these things I already did:

- Take apart the two intakes and the return ports and brush both the plastic attachments and the vinyl ports with a toothbrush.
- Brush every single seam on the bottom of the pool with a toothbrush while in SLAM before starting the extra high FC period
-Clean the top seam (from which the pool vinyl hangs from the frame tubes) with a brass instrument brush and chlorine solution
- brush and submerge every single item used in the pool, including plastic toys
- clean every inflatable with chlorine solution and keep inside the house once rinsed out.
-clean and brush the inside of the Intex filter pump that is normally accessible. (I did not take apart the pump to get at the motor area though, assuming stagnant water wrong be an issue in there, but ley me know if I should be voiding warranty and taking it apart too)

Honestly, I am at a loss at what more is going to take. Am I going to have to maintain this pool at 10+ FC forever? How am I going to manage pH measurements in this situation?. I can't really drop CYA below 50 without inviting losses of 4-5 FC daily during daytime--I should actually not even be dropping below 60 CYA during summer months.

I'm obviously back to SLAM again starting this afternoon. I swear there must be an ancient algae burial ground in my yard that I have disturbed or something for me to be haunted like this.