This pool refuses to clear up.. HELP!

[MattiaA1]

As the title says, this pool refuses to clear up. For reference, I am a new pool owner and I have done months of research before attempting this. I purchased a home with an above ground pool that hasn't been opened in years. I've been working on this project fora month now and the filter and pump have been running 24/7 (except during the 24hour period I had to use flocculant).Over these last 4 weeks, the water went from dark green to green/blue, then to a cloudy blue, then now to a hazy teal-blue. I can only see about 2 feet of the pool. I still cannot see the bottom of the pool. I've used clarifiers (being careful to not overdose), I've had to use flocculant to remove the tremendous amounts of dead algae (this brought the pool to a hazy blue). I've balanced the pool daily with a test kit and done the SLAM process. However, this pool just refuses to clear up and it is very frustrating at this point. I'm now reading on how there should be 3:1 ratio between calcium hardness and alkalinity. I don't know what to do anymore. At this point, the microparticles don't get caught in the sand filter as the pressure doesn't rise anymore/water conditions don't change. The clarifier seems to not work anymore. I tried a filter enhancer (cellulose) and it just clogs the filter immediately, even if I use 1/4 of the recommended dose. I just don't get it. Please help... thank you

24' pool, 4' deep ~12,000 gallons
23" sand filter, 1 1/2 HP pump
FC 7.5
CC 0.2
pH 7.5
TA 77
CYA 41
CH 114

 

[PoolStored]

Welcome to TFP1!!

Wooo boy, you have lots going on.

First where did those numbers come from?
What test kit do you have? Post a full set of numbers from YOUR test kit.
What test kit do you have?
Other than clarifiers and FLOC, what else did you add to the pool?

If you have used clarifiers and FLOC, I would open and inspect the sand filter and do a deep clean.

Deep clean sand filter

Getting ready to open the pool this year myself and I’m thinking I should clean out the sand filter. Pool was built in 2021 and during that time we had all the usual gunk fall into the pool including surrounding dirt/sand, release powder from stamped concrete, etc. Last year was a first full...

www.troublefreepool.com

Post up numbers from your kit and we'll go from there. If you still have a cloudy pool, you should continue to SLAM until the pool is clear, you pass oclt, and your CC <=5.

I'd print out the SLAM process, read it three times and continue the SLAM. Link-->SLAM Process

 

[MattiaA1]

Welcome to TFP1!!

Wooo boy, you have lots going on.

First where did those numbers come from?
What test kit do you have? Post a full set of numbers from YOUR test kit.
What test kit do you have?
Other than clarifiers and FLOC, what else did you add to the pool?

If you have used clarifiers and FLOC, I would open and inspect the sand filter and do a deep clean.

Deep clean sand filter

Getting ready to open the pool this year myself and I’m thinking I should clean out the sand filter. Pool was built in 2021 and during that time we had all the usual gunk fall into the pool including surrounding dirt/sand, release powder from stamped concrete, etc. Last year was a first full...

www.troublefreepool.com

Post up numbers from your kit and we'll go from there. If you still have a cloudy pool, you should continue to SLAM until the pool is clear, you pass oclt, and your CC <=5.

I'd print out the SLAM process, read it three times and continue the SLAM. Link-->SLAM Process

Those numbers came from my own test kit and then verified very similarly to the pool stores testing, so I trusted them. I have this test kit from Amazon, but I am going to upgrade to a Taylor test kit.

Anyways, other than adding liquid chlorine, pH up, alkalinity increaser, and stabilizer to balance the water, I added a bit of zero phos because my phosphorous levels used to be 2,500. That was about two weeks ago. That, combined with vacuuming debris, made that number go down significantly. Around that time, once my water turned cloudy blue, I added an algaecide to prevent algae from coming back. After that, I used the clarifier and then waited a week (with daily backwashes when the pressure went up 25%). After that didn't work, I used the flocculant and vacuumed to waste twice. This got all the suspended particles (that I can see with my eyes) in the water out. Now it is just hazy.

My pool equipment is all brand new. I have a new sand filter and new sand in it that is only a month old. Is it necessary to open the filter to deep clean if it doesn't have much age to it?

 

[proavia]

Welcome to TFP!

Consider ordering a TF-100 test kit from TFTestkits.
Test Kits Compared
It has more of the reagents we as residential pool owners use. The K-2006C has more of reagents we don't use as often and less of those reagents we need more often.

Suggest you review
Pool Care Basics
And become familiar with
PoolMath
FC/CYA Levels
SLAM Process

No more floc or clarifier - or any other pool store potions.
We can help you clear your pool.

Here is some inspiration
How Clear is TFP Clear?

Get the test kit ordered ASAP.
While waiting for your test kit to arrive, add 5 ppm FC daily - use only liquid chlorine.
Use PoolMath to determine how much to add based on your pool volume.

Sources of liquid chlorine - Walmart (10% Pool Essentials), Ace Hardware,Lowes, Home Depot, etc.

 

[Newdude]

First where did those numbers come from?

The min 3:1 CH/TA ratio is probably orenda.

Here's 2 excerpts from their article about it








*They said it. Not me.


From:
Ideal Calcium Hardness and Total Alkalinity Levels in Pools

@MattiaA1 we will fix you up good. Please ignore any other sources of info like the one above. They are probably just as terrible.

 

[Lake Placid]

Unfortunately your test kit cannot measure CYA so you’re dependent upon the pool stores test results of 41 which are likely wildly inaccurate. To clear your pool you will need a reliable CYA reading so you can chlorinate to the appropriate ratio during the SLAM process. Otherwise you are spinning your wheels. Please order an appropriate test kit, and add 5 ppm chlorine as others have referenced and you will get clear through proper chemistry management. You will be helped each step of the way.

As for the ratio between CH and Alk - it’s an effort to manage the PH ceiling…..

From the referenced article….

“We have found a 4:1 (or higher) CH: TA ratio consistently improves our customers' ability to control their water IF the values balance the LSI. That deserves repeating. The ratio only works if the values balance the LSI. If not, you're defeating the purpose and the chemistry will be out of balance anyway….

We should add that the 4:1 ideal ratio is not always necessary for successfully maintaining your pool. We at Orenda have found that 3:1 calcium to alkalinity is a viable minimum ratio. We have also found that going above 4:1 (e.g. 4.5:1, 5:1, 7:1, etc.) also works phenomenally well, especially in colder temperatures. Refer back to our LSI target ranges chart above and you can see our TA and CH numbers are broad enough to encompass these ratios.…

The lower your carbonate (corrected) alkalinity, the lower your pH ceiling, and therefore the easier it is to contain pH. But in order to have lower carbonate alkalinity, you need more calcium hardness to compensate for it. From Richard Falk:

"...the better way to look at it is not as a ratio, but to lower the carbonate alkalinity. And when one does that, raise the calcium hardness to compensate." - Richard Falk3

What seemed like a chemistry phenomenon turns out to be pure coincidence.” (Emphasis mine)

Bottom line on that ratio is this - the wizards at TFP have already figured this out, follow the recommended levels found here with respect to CH, ALK, PH and your CSI will be in line without having to follow the coincidental ratio as referenced. Now let’s get your pool clear.

 

[MattiaA1]

Thank you all for the resources. I have brushed up on a few things that you all sent me. While waiting for the kit to come in (Monday), what should I do in the meantime besides running filter and pump 24/7? With my current droplet test kit, I am able to measure TA and pH. My last measurement yesterday was 7.3 pH and 120 TA. Please let me know what else to do ahead of next week/what the next steps are in general. Thank you all. I know I am in good hands

 

[MattiaA1]

Hello everyone,

I used my new Taylor test kit yesterday. It is also best to tell you that we had two days worth of very heavy rainfall. Here are my results:
FC 0
CC 0
PH 7.3
TA 120
CH 190
CYA 30

Feel free to correct me, but this was my thought process. Per the resources you all gave me, I determined that alkalinity was fine. I would then move onto ph and increase that to 7.4-7.5? per pool math. Then could I take care of chlorine using pool math to get it up to slam? I figured CYA can be taken care of after slam or before?

 

[PoolStored]

Print out the slam process and read it three times. Here is the link-->SLAM Process

Your pH is fine for SLAM, so is CYA. So, start the SLAM process.

 

[MattiaA1]

Print out the slam process and read it three times. Here is the link-->SLAM Process

Your pH is fine for SLAM, so is CYA. So, start the SLAM process.

Ok sounds good! I just started the SLAM process - pool math told me to add 1 gallon and 2 quarts of 10% chlorine/my CYA level. I will continue to monitor the chlorine levels and perform the various tests as indicated in the link you sent me. Is there anything else to do in the meantime?

Also, as a side note, I want to ensure nothing is wrong with my sand filter. When I purchased the filter and sand earlier this year, the pool store gave me a 23" filter with 200 lbs of sand. When I set up my equipment, I called them and told them that the manual says that a 23" filter should have 250 lbs of sand. They said that the 200 lbs of sand that they gave me would be enough, so I went along with it and set everything up according to the manual - backwashing and rinsing upon first start-up as well. Now that I'm dealing with cloudy water only, I'm also wondering if the undercharge of sand is contributing to this cloudiness by letting the water pass through the filter too quickly. Should I buy a 50lbs #20 silica pool sand to top off my filter? Here is a picture of when I assembled the equipment and took a picture of the level with only 200 lbs of sand in the filter. It looks about 1/2 full, maybe a bit less. For reference, the normal operating pressure for my filter with a 1 1/2HP pump is 12 PSI. I backwash at 17-18 PSI since that is when the jet has a lack of flow.
Link to picture of sand filter inside, current level as indicated with my hand, and current water condition/color

 

[Lake Placid]

If the filter manual specified 250# of sand and they only supplied 200, yes that could be a contributing factor in slow clearing and turbidity issues. I'd add the recommended amount of sand. Does the manual reference a freeboard measurement? This would be helpful in adding additional sand but not 100% necessary as you know you're 50# low.