thinking of emptying pool

[outdoorsgal]

11:10am
FC 6.5
CC .5
pH 7.8
TA 120
CH 275 from 4-24
CYA 50 from 4-24
salt 1600
temp 78
CSI

Here is what I've figured out: I rush or am interrupted quite a lot having 3 kids, each with special needs ranging from dyslexia to autism. They took after me in that they do not read directions in school. Buying the new salt kit caused me to notice something I was doing wrong. First, the old kit's directions said "Rinse and fill 25 mL sample tube (#9198) to 10 mL mark with water to be tested." The new directions say "Rinse and fill sample tube (#9198) to 19 mL mark with water to be tested." In doing a quick search of the directions once I saw "25 mL" that's what I went with! I filled the bottle to 25 mL! That caused more drops, thinking there was more salt in the pool than there was.

Mistake #2: I wrote what Dirk told me to about the "first change from yellow to a milky salmon ... is the end point)." Taking out the word brick helps a lot as that does caused confusion but overall, if I would've taken the time to read, again, I would've seen that.

With that, I need to go to HD and get more salt later today. According to pool math I need another 133 lbs to get to 2700. Still makes me nervous so I'll go slow, especially with the mistakes I've made.

As for CYA, still makes me nervous. I have a digital scale that I take out there and I'm not 100% clear on if it's measuring how I want it to since there are 2 decimal points, I guess measuring for pounds, then ounces, then grams? In looking at the chart, I'd like to start with 60 and see how that goes then consider going up to 70 and no more than that. The CYA from Leslies pool store is still not all dissolved in the stocking. I tried to help with my hand but it's much more difficult than the CYA from home depot. So, i'll have to wait to retest.

As for the salt cell is there a reason I should leave it "off until I think I hit the salt level?"

thx! getting on track.

 

[Dirk]

Sorry, just gonna chime in a bit until Gene checks in. Don't add any salt until you have this test kit instructions snafu sorted out. You wrote "19ml" and that's not right. Perhaps just a typo? Be sure you're clear about how to run that test before you dump in more salt!

 

[outdoorsgal]

Sorry, just gonna chime in a bit until Gene checks in. Don't add any salt until you have this test kit instructions snafu sorted out. You wrote "19ml" and that's not right. Perhaps just a typo? Be sure you're clear about how to run that test before you dump in more salt!

oops. typo. I meant 10. The zero is right next to the 9. How ironic I had this ephiphany that I need to take it slower and double check and I did it again. ale: Also, I was coming back to check on what I put for CSI. What I notice that I have done is change the actual CSI in pool math and then not put it back for the forum when I change it back. Changing the original # helps me figure out how much acid to put in. so in this I meant to put:
11:10am
FC 6.5
CC .5
pH 7.8
TA 120
CH 275 from 4-24
CYA 50 from 4-24
salt 1600
temp 78
CSI .23
I am off to add 22 oz 14.5% acid to make the CSI .03

 

[outdoorsgal]

i guess i could always use volume to measure cya.

 

[outdoorsgal]

Sorry, just gonna chime in a bit until Gene checks in. Don't add any salt until you have this test kit instructions snafu sorted out. You wrote "19ml" and that's not right. Perhaps just a typo? Be sure you're clear about how to run that test before you dump in more salt!

also, pb measured 1300 before I added 40 lbs salt. panel says 0. I could always dun, dun, dunnnnnnnn ... go to pool store to triple check.

 

[proavia]

Don't waste precious time going to the pool store - it will only frustrate you more. You have THE premiere salt test kit. Get those directions down and follow them to a 'T'.

Don't turn on the SWG until you are testing at 2500+ or higher on the salt level. Continue to dose with bleach as if you are operating a non-SWG pool until the salt cell is up and running correctly.

Work on keeping the CSI slightly negative (0 to -0.30). This will give you good practice for when the SWG is running to help prevent it from scaling.

Tomorrow, test the TA again and report the result (in addition to the tests you did today). It should have dropped a little due to your acid additions. Also test CH again and report that also. Be sure you are doing each test to their correct end points. Review the extended test procedures here on the site: Pool School - Extended Test Kit Directions - press 'Read more' for more detail.

Speaking of acid additions, I see you are using the weak ('green') 14.5% acid. Did you set PoolMath to reflect this acid percentage?

Don't bother testing CYA again until after all the stabilizer is fully dissolved. If adding more, make sure your scale is set to ounces - 16 oz=1 pound.

 

[outdoorsgal]

i went to pool store before i got this msg. he was flying through the test but it confirmed that 3 of us were in the same ballpark. he used taylor regeants, too. seemed like the same regeants. he got 1300. he got 40 for cya. i'm going to pour in another 40 lbs of salt today and then test again. feel free to tell me not to add any more salt at any point.
now i have to check that the salt is 100% salt. $10 at the pool store. cheaper than hd if it's really quick desolve like he said. I'd be surprised. thx!

 

[proavia]

Quick dissolve doesn't mean much... you still need to run pump for 24 hours after all salt is dissolved before you will get a valid test result.

Based on your earlier test, salt was at 1600 - another 40# of salt 1 bag) will put it at 1900-2000 for your pool size (14400 gal). Don't really care about the PB or PS tests -- yours are the ones that count. Explain in detail how YOU did the salt test and what result you got. While I don't have a SWG or K1766 salt test, I'm sure Dirk or someone else who know exactly how to do the test will help out.

 

[outdoorsgal]

Quick dissolve doesn't mean much... you still need to run pump for 24 hours after all salt is dissolved before you will get a valid test result.

Based on your earlier test, salt was at 1600 - another 40# of salt 1 bag) will put it at 1900-2000 for your pool size (14400 gal). Don't really care about the PB or PS tests -- yours are the ones that count. Explain in detail how YOU did the salt test and what result you got. While I don't have a SWG or K1766 salt test, I'm sure Dirk or someone else who know exactly how to do the test will help out.

sounds like i need to add another minimum 133- 3 bags of salt. hd had plenty of the ripped ones 50% off but I thought I'd play it safe with chemicals and get new unopened.

salt test= i use the sample tube the kit provided. r these tubes made so the magnet won't spin 100%? since they don't always seem to spin well i end up using the magnet and hand spinning sometimes after adding drops. i fill container to 10 mL, then add magnet. I put on magnet stirrer and add 1 drop r-0630. i turn on magnet mixer and leave it on while i add drops of e-0178. as soon as it turns salmon color, a clearly different color than before, when the whole tube full is that pink color i use that number, no longer waiting until it gets brick red. brick red is too far. i use the first solid obvious change in color to farm raised (not sockeye) salmon color.

 

[outdoorsgal]

i miss my salt pool. checking FC twice a day is not for me and I'm sure someone here has done the math but it seems more $. I'll just post FC since it's the second time I checked today. Just checking quick to see if I need chlorine.
FC= 4.5 adding 64 oz chlorine.

I DID make sure pool math reflected the 14.5% acid

 

[cfherrman]

It's given here a swg and pouring bleach cost the same, just being upfront cost is with the swg

 

[Dirk]

sounds like i need to add another minimum 133- 3 bags of salt. hd had plenty of the ripped ones 50% off but I thought I'd play it safe with chemicals and get new unopened.

salt test= i use the sample tube the kit provided. r these tubes made so the magnet won't spin 100%? since they don't always seem to spin well i end up using the magnet and hand spinning sometimes after adding drops. i fill container to 10 mL, then add magnet. I put on magnet stirrer and add 1 drop r-0630. i turn on magnet mixer and leave it on while i add drops of e-0178. as soon as it turns salmon color, a clearly different color than before, when the whole tube full is that pink color i use that number, no longer waiting until it gets brick red. brick red is too far. i use the first solid obvious change in color to farm raised (not sockeye) salmon color.

You got it, dead on. It's funny, you got tripped up just like me. I thought my spinner was kaput too, when the pill wouldn't spin and just sort of rattled around. That's just a low battery. New batteries will get you twirlin' again!

Of all the things to get just right, salt is the lowest on the list. I think you adding some at a time and waiting a good bit and then testing is a good way to go. But once it's mixed in well (a day or two), and you think you're around the bottom of the SWG's recommended salt range, then just fire up your SWG. If it works, you're done. If not, add another bag and try again in a couple days. The salt number is inconsequential. The SWG won't make any more or less chlorine based on more or less salt. Once it's happy, it's happy. So you don't have to stress about the salt so much.

But be patient. You don't want to fire up the SWG if the salt isn't mixed in well.

I should point out, that's how my Pentair works, it has a low salt indicator, and when that isn't lit, the cell is happy. This trick works if your T-15 has a similar feature.

 

[proavia]

See - there you go. You've got the salt test down!

Continue to be patient - you're almost there.

No real need to check FC twice daily as your water is balanced pretty good and you don't have algae. Just test once daily and add enough to reach the top of your target range (or a point higher) - remember to dose for your anticipated CYA if you added stabilizer to increase CYA. If your testing calls for say 60 oz of bleach, dump in 1/2 gallon (64 oz). Close enough for our purposes. Apply the KISS method - don't overcomplicate it.

As for adding more salt - you were at 1600 earlier today. Adding a total of 3 more bags (120 pounds) should raise salt by almost 1000 with your pool volume. If you already added a bag, 3 more bags should getyouto 2900 - 3000. I say add 3 bags total, wait 24 hours (pump running) and fire up the SWG. Then check the SWG to see if it's producing chlorine. If it is, great - if not, add 1 more bag of salt and you should be good.

Did you any more stabilizer to increase your CYA?

 

[outdoorsgal]

thx! can someone pls explain to me why to not fire up the salt cell when there's not enough salt? should i also shut it off when it says "low salt" when it's likely due to calcium?

i have not added more cya. i'll retest since it's almost 24 hrs and we know we have a ways to go still. That'll help me see how my measuring skills r going for salt. I only have one bag so i'll add that after i test and then need to buy more.

Dirk, It's interesting that the magnet only seems to have an issue in certain test tubes-or maybe it's a coincidence. Good to know it should spin well in all of them. It may have to do with if what side it lies on when it's battery is on it's way out?

Gene, what's the KISS method?

thx for all of your help everyone!

 

[outdoorsgal]

so, measuring, adding acid, chlorine, salt, brushing took me an hour. I hope i can get to the point where it's really 5 min a day! so, more surprises and some confirmations:

FC=4.5
CC=.5
pH=7.8
salt=2000
TA=130
CH-275 from 4-24
CYA=50 from 4-24
temp 82
CSI=.26

after I got these #s I realized I added chlorine yesterday but i must've wrote "add" without the "ed" acid yesterday, came back to write here and wait 20 min while chlorine mixed in and then must've forgotten to add acid. Even with that, would TA raise or is it due to my testing or test kit? i didn't get one of the TA regeants yet and i have to say i'm disappointed with a couple of regeants that they will expire in october. I measured TA a few times and got 140 but that was prior to changing battery (thx Dirk, works great now) and i'm pretty sure the 130 is a good # to go with so that's what i'm using.

So, I added a 40 lb bag of salt which should bring it up to 2300-2400 and with that may only need one or 2 more bags? Or we'll see about my testing.
I added 1/2 gallon chlorine and 38 oz acid to bring CSI to .04.

i'll check CYA later or tomorrow. there was just a couple table spoons that hadn't dissolved.

thx.

 

[Dirk]

thx! can someone pls explain to me why to not fire up the salt cell when there's not enough salt? should i also shut it off when it says "low salt" when it's likely due to calcium?

Dirk, It's interesting that the magnet only seems to have an issue in certain test tubes-or maybe it's a coincidence. Good to know it should spin well in all of them. It may have to do with if what side it lies on when it's battery is on it's way out?

Gene, what's the KISS method?

If I remember right, you don't run an SWG while the salt is not mixed in well, it's not about the salt being low. So you don't fire up the SWG when it could be subjected to water that has a high content of salt and then another blast right after that has little salt. Worse still if either high or low is out of range of the SWG. SWGs test for salt and only start up if there's the right amount present. And mine, for instance, only tests for salt once, when it first turns on. So you can imagine what might happen to the thing if it tests salt at one level, charges up the cell plates, and then gets subjected to no-salt water, then high-salt water, then low again, etc. Not good. So best to have the thing completely turned off until you're sure (1) the salt level is within range, and (2) it's all mixed in well.

The Taylor SpeedStir pellets are designed for the vials that come with Taylor kits and products. If you're batteries are OK, and trying to get the pellet to work in a vial other than one that is designed for the SpeedStir, maybe that's the issue. Not sure. I use mine with the intended vials and it only starts acting funny when the batteries are low.

The KISS method refers to keeping things as simple as possible. It's a general rule, not a specific set of instructions. It means don't over-complicate things...

 

[proavia]

Remember, you are trying to get the CSI to be slightly negative - as you were having issues with the build up in the salt cell. And since you previously admitted to not checking your water balance frequently enough, targeting a pH to give a slightly negative CSI gives slightly more wiggle room in case you forget to test and skip a day.

Even after the SWG is up and running, you WILL need to test at least FC and pH every day or you will wind up with an algae bloom or scaling. Plan now on how you will fit that 5 minutes testing into your daily routine.

What was the target level for your pH? Try changing that target level about 2/10 of a point lower (but not less than 7.2). So if you were targeting 7.5, change the target to 7.3. That will help lower the TA (which is a little high) and also help get your CSI in the 0 to -0.30 (negative 0.30) range.

As for the reagent expiration dates - that's why we suggest ordering from tftestkits.net - they guarentee the reagents for a year. Several posts back I suggested you just order a complete refill kit from them. It will only take 3-4 days to receive it. Next year, avail yourself of the pre-season sale on the TF-100 complete refill and you won't have to worry about the reagents expiring for at least a year (less frustration and less running around trying to find or order when you run low).

Tomorrow we will need a complete set of results with updated TA, CH and CYA numbers - along with updated results for all the otbers as well.

Your're close to being able to fire up the SWG. Keep up the good work!

Are you using the PoolMath app on your phone or accessing PoolMath via the website?

 

[outdoorsgal]

FC 4
CC 0
pH 7.8
TA 130
salt 2400
CYA 40 (yes, 40)
CH 300
temp 81 degrees
CSI .25
added 38 oz acid to get CSI to -0.04
need to add 40 lbs salt
need to add 74 oz chlorine
need to add 40 oz volume stabilizer to get 60 CYA. That's what i'll shoot for for now. I'll add less 4 now considering CYA is the hardest test and I already got 2 different #s.

- - - Updated - - -

yes, that all makes since Dirk and Gene. thx! i think i tested everything right and even did the CYA twice so only God knows why i got 40 this time. the position of the sun behind me? kids running around interrupting?

i use the website for poolmath

 

[proavia]

With your addition of acid, what was the pH target? Stay on top of the pH. Adding acid will also slowly bring down the TA - shoot for about 60 for the TA. Having a TA of 60 will help slow the pH rise - especially once the SWG is up and running.

For the CYA test, did you just pour the solution from the test tube back into the squirt bottle and try your reading again?? Doing so will help save on CYA reagent.

Get that chlorine in ASAP, don't want FC falling below minimum.

Add the salt and stabilizer as soon as you can. The sooner the better so you can get the SWG back online.

 

[outdoorsgal]

pH target was 7.5
Yes, I added chlorine, acid, and salt right after sending out the last post. I just fired up the salt cell and it still says "zero salt. Check very low salt." Hubby is not happy about taking off the salt cell today so I'll see if I can get him to take it off today or tomorrow. He doesn't understand why we would have to take it off 4 times in one month. Just got home and will check the levels in a bit.

I wasn't happy with Leslie bringing so. I hope it got it up to 2800 but I'll probably clean it and bring it in to Leslie's to have them check it since getting hubbie to take it off twice won't work. I'm not sure if pb would come out to test it.

Yes, I reused same cya tube and poured it back