The New Pentair SuperFlo VS or VST??

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

The Pentair brand cable is out of stock just about everywhere. I bought the Switchcraft one recently to automate my Supermax VS pump.

Are you connecting via RS-485? Let us know how it works out.

I posted the info in the link below and DM'd the OP:

Installation question about VS pump

Good day all, I am in the process of having a 16x40 FB pool put in ( I did my best to include everything in my sig). I also did search for this question and didn't find it specifically. The installer gave me two options with my VS pump. Hook it into the Easy Touch panel and get 2 modes, or...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[pelagicturtle]

The Pentair brand cable is out of stock just about everywhere. I bought the Switchcraft one recently to automate my Supermax VS pump.

Here's the Wiring Table

 

[dwiese42]

Nice find! II have been looking for this cable for nearly a year. Thanks so much.

Dale

 

[pelagicturtle]

Are you connecting via RS-485? Let us know how it works out.

I posted the info in the link below and DM'd the OP:

Installation question about VS pump

Good day all, I am in the process of having a 16x40 FB pool put in ( I did my best to include everything in my sig). I also did search for this question and didn't find it specifically. The installer gave me two options with my VS pump. Hook it into the Easy Touch panel and get 2 modes, or...

www.troublefreepool.com

I'm hoping to connect RS485 to an iChlor30 salt generator to take advantage of the SmartSense flow sensing. But I'm not sure if the Sta-Rite pumps use the same protocol as the Intelliflow pumps. The user manual is unclear, as has already been mentioned in this discussion. When I connected the RS485 conductors from the pump to the iChlor power center terminals I received some sort of data packet from the iChlor because I got an error message on the pump display indicating a serial error. I haven't yet investigated it any further.
For my purposes RS485 isn't a high priority because I can use the digital input signals with relays to control pump speed. But it would be useful to interface with the iChlor in a low flow condition.

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

I'm hoping to connect RS485 to an iChlor30 salt generator to take advantage of the SmartSense flow sensing. But I'm not sure if the Sta-Rite pumps use the same protocol as the Intelliflow pumps.

The iChlor manual is pretty specific in regards to compatibility with the IntelliFlo, but there's no mention of compatibility with SuperFlo or SuperMax. I'm pretty sure it won't work. Let us know one way or another.

SmartSense™ Flow Detection technology allows the connection of an IntelliFlo® Variable Speed Pump via RS-485 communication, to an iChlor® SCG power center while in stand-alone mode, by simply attaching the RS-485 cable from the pump, to the RS-485 connector located in the iChlor Power Center (see iChlor Power Center Wiring Diagram at the bottom of the next page). SmartSense is a safety feature that will continually monitor the status of the IntelliFlo pump before generating chlorine​

Thanks for sharing!

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

For my purposes RS485 isn't a high priority because I can use the digital input signals with relays to control pump speed.

I like this feature on the SuperFlo/Max pumps; they're great for DIY automation systems. The IntelliFlo models require an Interface (IntelliComm II) for DIY external relay control.

 

[pelagicturtle]

The iChlor manual is pretty specific in regards to compatibility with the IntelliFlo, but there's no mention of compatibility with SuperFlo or SuperMax. I'm pretty sure it won't work. Let us know one way or another.

SmartSense™ Flow Detection technology allows the connection of an IntelliFlo® Variable Speed Pump via RS-485 communication, to an iChlor® SCG power center while in stand-alone mode, by simply attaching the RS-485 cable from the pump, to the RS-485 connector located in the iChlor Power Center (see iChlor Power Center Wiring Diagram at the bottom of the next page). SmartSense is a safety feature that will continually monitor the status of the IntelliFlo pump before generating chlorine​

Thanks for sharing!

Yeah, that's what I mean by it's unclear. The SuperFlo/Max VS manual says that certain Pentair control systems can interface with the pump but that Intelliconnect systems cannot control the pump. But it's unclear if an iChlor in standalone mode can read the signal output from a SuperFlo/Max.

These pumps can be controlled from certain Pentair
control systems, via an RS-485 signal, when paired with
the RS-485 Automation Wiring Kit (P/N 356324Z - Black).
Note: IntelliConnect® Control and Monitoring
Systems can NOT externally control this pump via
RS-485. The pump will need to be connected via
digital inputs.

 

[pelagicturtle]

I like this feature on the SuperFlo/Max pumps; they're great for DIY automation systems. The IntelliFlo models require an Interface (IntelliComm II) for DIY external relay control.

Agreed. I'm building my own diy system. Less expensive and better functionality than the Pentair offerings.

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

Agreed. I'm building my own diy system. Less expensive and better functionality than the Pentair offerings.

Don't know what you have planned, but several members have gone this route:

GitHub - tagyoureit/nodejs-poolController: An application to control pool equipment from various manufacturers.

An application to control pool equipment from various manufacturers. - tagyoureit/nodejs-poolController

github.com

It's way over my head. Check out my automation for dummies link in my sig...

Feel free to start a new thread and throw some ideas around.

 

[pelagicturtle]

Don't know what you have planned, but several members have gone this route:

GitHub - tagyoureit/nodejs-poolController: An application to control pool equipment from various manufacturers.

An application to control pool equipment from various manufacturers. - tagyoureit/nodejs-poolController

github.com

It's way over my head. Check out my automation for dummies link in my sig...

Feel free to start a new thread and throw some ideas around.

I have a Loxone Home Automation System. It has a lot of options for relays, sensors and even RS485 interfacing (if the protocol is known). I've used it for other building systems and it's well suited for pool and spa control.

 

[pelagicturtle]

Yeah, that's what I mean by it's unclear. The SuperFlo/Max VS manual says that certain Pentair control systems can interface with the pump but that Intelliconnect systems cannot control the pump. But it's unclear if an iChlor in standalone mode can read the signal output from a SuperFlo/Max.

I received confirmation of sorts that the Supermax VS does not SEND end-user actionable RS485 data. The following is from an email I received from Pentair Tech Support:

... no this pump cannot control anything via RS data connections. The pump gets wired to its own breaker direct and always has power, program pump itself from its computer display. You then need a time clock to power the salt cell on/off inside this set schedule for the pump to run.

In order to receive a response in a timely manner, please reply directly to this email. Reference case number XXXXXXXX in all correspondence.

Thank you,
Julian J
Pentair Water Pool and Spa Inc

Your problem description:
I have a StaRite Supermax VS 1.5 hp pump and iChlor 30 chlorinator. They are not connected to a timer in the load center. The chlorinator operates standalone. However the pool equipment installer did not provide an RS485 cable for the pump. Can an RS485 cable be used with this pump to communicate with the iChlor power center in the same way that the iChlor manual recommends for an intelliflo pump?

This does not necessarily mean that the pump can't RECEIVE commands from a proprietary controller.

 

[ewaynek]

I can verify that if your Pentair SuperFlo VST pump (mine is #342002), was manufactured after 10/15/2020, it can use the RS-485 signal.

My SuperFlo was manufactured 12/8/2021.

Using the RS-485 Automation Wiring Kit (P/N 356324Z - Black) the yellow and green wires were connected to the J20 COM ports on the EasyTouch 8 panel as detailed on page 5 of the pump manual. Next, the pump keypad was used to make the necessary adjustments also detailed on page 5.

Now the pump follows the program schedules and speeds!

 

[guinness]

That's great, thanks for sharing. Interestingly both the Superflo VST and the newer Whisperflo VST pump manuals state that they are not compatible with the IntelliConnect which is odd since they both have a RS-485 interface.

Thanks to our resident RS-485 expert on this forum, it was deduced from Pentair documentation that instead of the IntelliConnect controlling the pump speeds/times directly it relies on the pumps own built-in scheduler.

Whereas the Intelliflo can be programmed with up to 4 schedules at different times and durations, the Superflo only has 1 scheduled start time with up to 3 different speeds of varying duration (running after one another).

It's conceivable that the IntelliConnect firmware could be adapted to the more limited scheduling on the Superflo, but that also mean changes to the Pentair Home application which seems unlikely unless demanded by customers.

 

[mgrubbs]

Sorry for not having a signature yet, but I wanted to chime in on how useful this thread has been and give a summary of my working setup (thanks to the information here and in This related thread that's been linked a number of times)

Pump: Super Max VS (RS-485 compatible, manufactured 2022)
Cable: Switchcraft CAEN3C8F07990
Controller: Zooz Zen16 Relay (Connected to SmartThings)

Ironically, even though my cable and pump WOULD support RS-485 comms, I didn't bother trying to find a setup to support this.

I wired up the digital inputs using the Pump's output signal (5v) chained to my 3 relays according to the diagram in the SuperMax VS manual.

The main difference is that I omitted speed 1 / relay 1 and used my 3 available relays to control the "functioning" speeds (2,3, and 4 -- as speed 1 needs to be set to 0 RPM anyway).
I control this "Off" state using the Zen16's on/off functionality -- in SmartThings and other zwave hubs, this device shows up as 4 devices (1 controller with all the advanced settings, and 3 relays). When the "Controller" device is turned off, it functions as a sort of 4th relay, cutting all of the 5v signals returning to the digital inputs and defaulting to speed 1 (which is, of course, 0 or OFF).

I haven't gotten into any scheduling / programming but the Zen16 has lots of functionality, you can connect external inputs that correlate to the 3 relays, set the "mode" of those switches to be momentary, toggle, etc... and with smartthings (or any zwave controller) you can set schedules, bypass the switches, and control everything remotely.

The "missing" element here is the ability to modify RPMs of the 3 speeds beyond what's programmed at the pump's controller. But realistically, once I figure out what 3 speeds are required for my needs, I don't anticipate touching the RPMs ever.

What's nice about this setup is that for ~100$ CAD (between the cable and relay) I've got all the functionality I need -- I can program control and automation through my existing smartthings setup, control remotely, or use the smartthings web interface.

--------------------------
If anyone needs information on the appropriate Zen16 device settings I am using, let me know.

 

[jbrazda]

I can verify that if your Pentair SuperFlo VST pump (mine is #342002), was manufactured after 10/15/2020, it can use the RS-485 signal.

My SuperFlo was manufactured 12/8/2021.

Using the RS-485 Automation Wiring Kit (P/N 356324Z - Black) the yellow and green wires were connected to the J20 COM ports on the EasyTouch 8 panel as detailed on page 5 of the pump manual. Next, the pump keypad was used to make the necessary adjustments also detailed on page 5.

Now the pump follows the program schedules and speeds!

So, what does this allow you to do? I have a superflo vst (manufactured after the date required), and an easy touch 4. I believe my PB wired it wrong. I have the same cable as you, but he wired it do the 3rd and 4th relays, which gives me 2 speed options. I am thinking I can re wire it using the green and yellow wires on J20. But what do I gain?

 

[Jimrahbe]

J,

You get the ability to set the speeds from your EasyTouch instead of speeds stored in your pump. You can change speeds at anytime.

You select a circuit and the EasyTouch automatically changes speeds. As an example.. If I turn on my waterfall, my pump automatically changes to the speed I want.

The EasyTouch was designed to use the RS-485 cable, not relays. Using relays is just a chunky way to get it done.

Why waste a relay inside your EasyTouch if you don't have to?

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[jbrazda]

J,

You get the ability to set the speeds from your EasyTouch instead of speeds stored in your pump. You can change speeds at anytime.

You select a circuit and the EasyTouch automatically changes speeds. As an example.. If I turn on my waterfall, my pump automatically changes to the speed I want.

The EasyTouch was designed to use the RS-485 cable, not relays. Using relays is just a chunky way to get it done.

Why waste a relay inside your EasyTouch if you don't have to?

Thanks,

Jim R.

Awesome. This is exactly what I'm looking for. However now I'm thinking my PB ordered the wrong cable. The one I have is almond, and it seems like the newer one is black. Or do you know, can the correct cable (P/N 356324Z) be either color?

 

[Jimrahbe]

J,

I have no idea. It appears that the Almond cable has 6 wires and the black cable has 8 wires. They do not show which pins the wires go to, so not sure if the Almond cable uses the two pins needed for RS-485 control.

Go back and read Post #54 and look at the links. It may get you pointed in the right direction.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[jbrazda]

J,

I have no idea. It appears that the Almond cable has 6 wires and the black cable has 8 wires. They do not show which pins the wires go to, so not sure if the Almond cable uses the two pins needed for RS-485 control.

Go back and read Post #54 and look at the links. It may get you pointed in the right direction.

Thanks,

Jim R.

Well, it turns out I was wrong, my PB did order the correct cable, he just hooked it up wrong. They had it wired up to 2 relays with the orang and brown wire. I disconnected it and wired up the yellow and green wires per the instructions. I can now change to any rpm I want from my phone. I can see the rpm of the pump as well as how many watts it is using. I have also now finally got it set up so I can hit one button on my phone, and the valve for my magic bowls opens, and the pump increases to 3200 RPM.

 

[gonzapa]

did anyone figure out the connector type?