The Great Mistake (photo heavy!)

nameBrandon

Active member
Mar 24, 2019
26
Chicago
Wow.... It takes a special kind of person to willfully pass along something like that. While I understand exactly what you're saying, regarding burden of proof and how difficult it would be, I would also say that the area directly below the cover, matches so well the state of the pool, that I'd be hard pressed to believe the entire decking wasn't in that level of disarray (unused for a VERY lengthy time. not just one winter season) and was simply sub'd out to be pressure washed for the sake of a 'beauty' sale.

Still, You've handled this with class from my perspective. Hope these guys continue to do right, by you, and you have YEARS of enjoyment to put the brief suffering well in the past.
Thanks! I agree with you. This was many years of never being touched. I met one set of neighbors a week or two ago (we still haven't moved in) and they mentioned being there 10 years, and had never once seen the pool cover off the pool. I choose to think of it as there was some sort of financial necessity on the sellers part that made them conceal this, rather than maliciously passing this along. Perhaps they needed the sale price and couldn't do with a ~$70-$80k reduction in order to pay medical bills or help out a family member. It's a little more palatable when I tell myself that story.

Anyways, plaster is going in today! The pool equipment (pumps, filter, etc..) is complete trash and all needs to be replaced, but for now the equipment is (barely) functional and we'll limp through the remainder of this season (probably 3-4 more weeks) until closing and see about new stuff next spring time.
 
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kimkats

Mod Squad
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 10, 2012
41,005
Tallahassee, FL
Today?? Today is Sunday! WOW they must be hungry! So when they go to add water to that new plaster do NOT stop the flow of water. If you do it might cause a ring around the plaster.

Wrap a sock or something around the metal part of the hose to keep it from marring the new plaster. It will also act as a filter as well.

Is there any way you can keep the pool open longer? Your new plaster will still be curing. While it cures it needs to be brushed and the pH monster fed. New plaster likes to push the pH up and you will need to add muriatic acid quite often.

Kim:kim:
 

wireform

Silver Supporter
In The Industry
Aug 15, 2017
387
Spring Valley, NY
I know about this kind of thing from a close family member who bought a home with pool. At closing there was a separate clause for the pool that there is no guarantee of the condition and all that belonged to it. It was told from the get go that it was closed for six years and it was a take it or leave it kind of thing. Yes pool was very dirty, some cracked external pvc a skimmer plumbing issue and a pump that was frozen due to exposure. All was repaired and pool has been a pleasure but it was taking a chance.

Just one question here. Why would you cover up all the piping once it's dug up. I would rather do everything else, get the pool filled, get all the equipment running and making sure there aren't any leaks. Last but not least is to pour the concrete and finishing touches. I see when new pools are installed they fill and leave as much exposed piping for several weeks just to be sure all checks out.
 

nameBrandon

Active member
Mar 24, 2019
26
Chicago
Today?? Today is Sunday! WOW they must be hungry! So when they go to add water to that new plaster do NOT stop the flow of water. If you do it might cause a ring around the plaster.

Wrap a sock or something around the metal part of the hose to keep it from marring the new plaster. It will also act as a filter as well.

Is there any way you can keep the pool open longer? Your new plaster will still be curing. While it cures it needs to be brushed and the pH monster fed. New plaster likes to push the pH up and you will need to add muriatic acid quite often.

Kim:kim:
Yep, I guess so. Thanks for the heads up.. I assume I stop it halfway up the tile line then? Will see if I can get a TF100 kit on Amazon to get here ASAP so I can independently check pH. I believe the pool company will be doing this for me as the plan was to take over doing my own maintenance next year (we're still doing interior renovations and aren't living there).. I should probably double check this with them though, thanks for the heads up. :)
 

nameBrandon

Active member
Mar 24, 2019
26
Chicago
I know about this kind of thing from a close family member who bought a home with pool. At closing there was a separate clause for the pool that there is no guarantee of the condition and all that belonged to it. It was told from the get go that it was closed for six years and it was a take it or leave it kind of thing. Yes pool was very dirty, some cracked external pvc a skimmer plumbing issue and a pump that was frozen due to exposure. All was repaired and pool has been a pleasure but it was taking a chance.

Just one question here. Why would you cover up all the piping once it's dug up. I would rather do everything else, get the pool filled, get all the equipment running and making sure there aren't any leaks. Last but not least is to pour the concrete and finishing touches. I see when new pools are installed they fill and leave as much exposed piping for several weeks just to be sure all checks out.
Good question! I can only tell you what I was told, and I'm assuming it's true but don't know much myself about any of this.

Obviously pressure tests were done at multiple point prior to the pouring of the concrete, but the concrete, being colored and stamped, needed to be poured prior to the plaster being applied, as the "color dust" (my technical term) and general concrete pouring / stamping process could potentially harm/discolor the plaster. The concrete company was insistent that concrete be poured and colored / stamped prior to plaster. After seeing the mess/dust that went into the pool during that process, it makes sense to me.

I have been very clear with the pool team that if there is a problem with the plumbing post-pour, it is on them to fix and they'll be responsible (and they've agreed the same).
 

kimkats

Mod Squad
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 10, 2012
41,005
Tallahassee, FL
If you order from the site in my signature below the test kit should get to you very fast as they are in NC so it should be a short trip! IF needed you can get a "baby" pH kit from Walmart or Lowes just of the pH.
 
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nameBrandon

Active member
Mar 24, 2019
26
Chicago
If you order from the site in my signature below the test kit should get to you very fast as they are in NC so it should be a short trip! IF needed you can get a "baby" pH kit from Walmart or Lowes just of the pH.
Thanks! Already got the shipping label info! :)

And we have plaster / water.. (updated pictures in the 2nd post). We're almost there!!
 

jimim

Bronze Supporter
Jun 20, 2016
2,424
NE/Pa
Today?? Today is Sunday! WOW they must be hungry! So when they go to add water to that new plaster do NOT stop the flow of water. If you do it might cause a ring around the plaster.

Wrap a sock or something around the metal part of the hose to keep it from marring the new plaster. It will also act as a filter as well.

Is there any way you can keep the pool open longer? Your new plaster will still be curing. While it cures it needs to be brushed and the pH monster fed. New plaster likes to push the pH up and you will need to add muriatic acid quite often.

Kim:kim:
Im with Kim in this one. I got plastered in July and I stayed open till November cause my ph was off the walls. I was adding 1 x day still in November. If you close you run a huge huge risk of opening up to scale due to ph rise over winter.

What I did was close November. I added 1 gallon of an approved scale remover/controller and opened ASAP after winter. It was April 1st I think and I was safe. Ph was high but I had zero scale. Was it the scale preventor or was it the pool wasn’t closed too long I don’t know but I had zero scale.

Stay open late as possible. When it gets cold run ur pump 24/7.
 

jimim

Bronze Supporter
Jun 20, 2016
2,424
NE/Pa
Yep, I guess so. Thanks for the heads up.. I assume I stop it halfway up the tile line then? Will see if I can get a TF100 kit on Amazon to get here ASAP so I can independently check pH. I believe the pool company will be doing this for me as the plan was to take over doing my own maintenance next year (we're still doing interior renovations and aren't living there).. I should probably double check this with them though, thanks for the heads up. :)
There is no way I would trust a builder to stop daily to add acid. My builder was awesome and he still doesn’t go daily for his customers on new plaster. He goes every other day and tells them to dump in a set amount daily. I don’t trust that either.
 

PointeTaken

Well-known member
Aug 28, 2019
57
Hoover, AL
The condition of everything is such that any reasonable seller would know/assume that the pool and its systems were in disrepair. Illinois is not a caveat emptor state. As required by state law, your sellers would have filled out a seller disclosure statement. Disclosure number 8 on that form reads:

I am aware of material defects in the plumbing system (includes such things as water heater, sump pump, water treatment system, sprinkler system, and swimming pool).
If the sellers selected "NO" or "N/A" it is reasonable to argue that the condition of the property was misrepresented to you during the sale. In my opinion, you should retain an attorney and sue for misrepresentation or more likely fraud.

EDIT: including link to Illinois disclosures form: http://mlstown.com/chicago/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Illinois-Disclosures-Packet.pdf
 
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nameBrandon

Active member
Mar 24, 2019
26
Chicago
The condition of everything is such that any reasonable seller would know/assume that the pool and its systems were in disrepair. Illinois is not a caveat emptor state. As required by state law, your sellers would have filled out a seller disclosure statement. Disclosure number 8 on that form reads:



If the sellers selected "NO" or "N/A" it is reasonable to argue that the condition of the property was misrepresented to you during the sale. In my opinion, you should retain an attorney and sue for misrepresentation or more likely fraud.

EDIT: including link to Illinois disclosures form: http://mlstown.com/chicago/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Illinois-Disclosures-Packet.pdf
Thanks, I've reviewed the disclosures many times before making sure I wasn't crazy and seeing things. The point is that it's difficult (and expensive) to prove someone knew something, especially when they were out of the state half of the year. It's a fair amount of money, but it's not the end of the world.

Im with Kim in this one. I got plastered in July and I stayed open till November cause my ph was off the walls. I was adding 1 x day still in November. If you close you run a huge huge risk of opening up to scale due to ph rise over winter.

What I did was close November. I added 1 gallon of an approved scale remover/controller and opened ASAP after winter. It was April 1st I think and I was safe. Ph was high but I had zero scale. Was it the scale preventor or was it the pool wasn’t closed too long I don’t know but I had zero scale.

Stay open late as possible. When it gets cold run ur pump 24/7.
Thank you! I've got the kit on the way and I'll discuss with the pool team. I'll independently test the pH and see how it's going! Is there a recommended app to track these values over time? I did browse the "ABC's" briefly, but didn't see any mention of tracking the values. I'm a data geek, so looking forward to this part, actually. :)
 

frogabog

Gold Supporter
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 16, 2010
2,833
Portland, Oregon
Thank you! I've got the kit on the way and I'll discuss with the pool team. I'll independently test the pH and see how it's going! Is there a recommended app to track these values over time? I did browse the "ABC's" briefly, but didn't see any mention of tracking the values. I'm a data geek, so looking forward to this part, actually. :)
PoolMath!!!
 
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frogabog

Gold Supporter
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 16, 2010
2,833
Portland, Oregon
Thanks! I did notice that on the sidebar, was hoping to get something on my phone that tracked values over time, etc.. but PoolMath certainly looks very thorough for point-in-time adjustments!!
If you subscribe to the Pool Math app it will track/log everything including notes, maintenance, etc. Also, you can set it up to share with TFP and then your logs can be seen on the forum. Click/hover over my screen name and you'll see the blue Pool Math button at bottom right.
 
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nameBrandon

Active member
Mar 24, 2019
26
Chicago
If you subscribe to the Pool Math app it will track/log everything including notes, maintenance, etc. Also, you can set it up to share with TFP and then your logs can be seen on the forum. Click/hover over my screen name and you'll see the blue Pool Math button at bottom right.
@nameBrandon , go to your App Store & download the Pool Math app to your phone and/or tablet.
AWESOME! Didn't realize you were talking about an app and not the link on the website. Thank you, this is perfect!
 
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jimim

Bronze Supporter
Jun 20, 2016
2,424
NE/Pa
Keep the pool open regardless of what ur pool builder says! He is going to want to close it so it’s off his plate. Keep it open!
 

Rollercoastr

Gold Supporter
May 18, 2016
860
West Bloomfield, MI
I wonder if the sellers of your home and the sellers of my home are sitting on a remote beach somewhere enjoying their ill-gotten equity, unaware that karma is stalking them from the bushes.

I feel your pain!

When we first viewed our home, the pool was opaque with algae. We insisted that they clear it for an inspection. They did, but what also became clear was why they wanted to show the pool while it was dirty. Chunks of missing plaster and DIY patches were evident even without the "wisdom" of the pool inspector. He recommended resurfacing, but deemed the pool functional and viable. (he didn't bother to test the water, so I discovered on my own that the pH was low enough to dissolve a body or two...)

In our counter offer, we asked for a concession for the aged plaster. The seller's reply: "the plaster is fine. I patch it frequently with epoxy and a diving mask."

o_O

The wife left us a welcome note, including heads-ups that were vast understatements of issues and contradicted their disclosure.

I'm reasonably confident that we could've won a judgment against them and recovered some of our unexpected repair costs, but aside from being risky and stressful, it would require using that small measure of goodwill against her. Like you, we decided to let karma handle it and get on with enjoying the home.

That's going to be an amazing pool. Enjoy!
 
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mguzzy

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2015
721
OV, CA
Wow! what a story!... sounds like pool variation of that movie with Tom Hanks and Shelley Long? How much coverage did you get from the home warranty? Insurance? Any pics post plaster? Since you were privileged to replace all the equipment, what did you put in?
 
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