The Evasive Leak

[I Got This!!!!!!]

Hey guys,
So after weeks of wishing my water disappearing was from evaporation it seem the 3/4” I’m losing a day is a leak.
Bucket test confirms this.
About my system… I ran 4 suction and 5 returns. All were ran independently with shut off valves for each.
To start my leak test, I turned off the waterfall and deck jets (which I run 24/7 )
Filled the pool to a fixed printed line on my bucket and waited 24 hours.
The following morning the pool was down 3/4” again. Leaving the water features off over the next several days I would shut one of the 3 remaining returns off for 24 hours and chart my findings.
Today was the last day of return checks and there has been no changes in results so I’m going to say no leaks are in any of the 5 returns.
Now I will start the same process with the suction side. I have a main drain, a wall drain, and 2 skimmers. Today I started with the main drain and will see what happens.
I don’t have air bubbles in my system except when the water gets low and the skimmers suck some air or if I’m filling the pool with the hose pouring into the pool right next to the skimmers . The aeration from the fallen water creates bubbles and they get sucked into the skimmer.
Once I’ve gone through each line next place will be the liner. It’s only a few months old so I’ll have to wait and see.
And I guess I should run a test with the equipment off all together for 24 hours to see if there is a difference as well?
So here’s a question, can a suction pipe leak water and not suck air???
I really hate this… I spent so much time making sure I did the piping correctly. They even held pressure for over a month without any problems…..
Thanks for listening, Lou

 

[Texas Splash]

So here’s a question, can a suction pipe leak water and not suck air???

I would think that is a crack was large enough to allow water to seep out when the system was off, then it could allow air to get pulled IN once the system is on. But the depth and area around the crack may influence the amount of air available to get pulled into the line. Just a theory anyway. Did you install a hydrostatic valve in the main drain? If so, any chance it may be dirty or stuck partially open allowing water to seep out?

 

[I Got This!!!!!!]

I would think that is a crack was large enough to allow water to seep out when the system was off, then it could allow air to get pulled IN once the system is on. But the depth and area around the crack may influence the amount of air available to get pulled into the line. Just a theory anyway. Did you install a hydrostatic valve in the main drain? If so, any chance it may be dirty or stuck partially open allowing water to seep out?

Thanks TS
No, no hydrostatic value.

 

[Jimrahbe]

I,

I suggest that you live with it until your swimming season is over. Then just let the pool drain down until it stops. The leak will be right above where the water level stops.

Most pools leak from..

1. Skimmer
2. Lights
3. Main Drain
4. Returns

Does the leak rate change when the pump is off?

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[wireform]

By shutting off the returns via valves doesn't negate the the proof or their lack of, or any of the other ports that are under water because water those pipes can still in have a chance to leak under ground. I would suggest actually plugging them from the pool side with any of the winterizing plugs available which would basically sort of dismember it from your pool for the time.
With a leak that large a die test by each return and skimmer should show yes or no pretty fast.

 

[I Got This!!!!!!]

I,

I suggest that you live with it until your swimming season is over. Then just let the pool drain down until it stops. The leak will be right above where the water level stops.

Most pools leak from..

1. Skimmer
2. Lights
3. Main Drain
4. Returns

Does the leak rate change when the pump is off?

Thanks,

Jim R.

Hey Jim,
When I’m done ruling out each zone I planed on doing just that, a check with the equipment off for 24 hours. I’m guessing I should also do a test by plunging the returns and skimmers one at a time as well as having the corresponding valve closed that should rule out the pipe itself.
Thanks Lou

 

[Jimrahbe]

Lou,

I've got to ask.. When it was not leaking, did you actually run your deck jets 24/7???

I am told they are awful loud, is that true?

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

If you’re willing to spend the money, companies like American Leak Detection can find pool leaks (and other plumbing leaks) pretty effectively. Not the same thing, but I had a maddening leak on my water main line that would come and go randomly. I finally got fed up trying to track down all the things I imagined were causing it - toilets, sinks, long showers, etc. It took a helium leak detector to find it but they confirmed my main line had a tiny leak and we found this when the plumber dug it up -



The previous owners of my home built a casita on the property and it’s clear the contractor/plumber screwed up. They tapped off the main line with a T but came up short and clearly tried to yank the main line pipe to bring it closer. In doing so they snapped the PVC further down the line and fixed their mistake by cutting the pipe and sealing it with an irrigation coupler Irrigation PVC couplers are NOT intended to fix leaks in a pressurized potable water line. They did a cheap fix. And so that coupler would drip/leak on and off with fluctuating line pressure and temperatures. We fixed it all and brought shutoff valves up to grade so that all water lines can be isolated if necessary.

I hope your leak is easy to find. This one drove me nuts for years.

 

[I Got This!!!!!!]

Lou,

I've got to ask.. When it was not leaking, did you actually run your deck jets 24/7???

I am told they are awful loud, is that true?

Thanks,

Jim R.

Hey Jim,
Yes 24 /7, but the vs pump ramps up in the morning and drops as the day goes on. Also being every line is a home run, if I open or close valves it changes the pressure. So the jets change through the day louder to quiet depending on the pump speed or if I intervene. I’m attaching videos hopefully you can hear what I hear. I don’t mind the water sounds, it’s relaxing to me. Thanks Lou

Equipment Pad

youtube.com

 

[I Got This!!!!!!]

Hey Jim,
Yes 24 /7, but the vs pump ramps up in the morning and drops as the day goes on. Also being every line is a home run, if I open or close valves it changes the pressure. So the jets change through the day louder to quiet depending on the pump speed or if I intervene. I’m attaching videos hopefully you can hear what I hear. I don’t mind the water sounds, it’s relaxing to me. Thanks Lou

Forgot this one

Equipment Pad

youtube.com

 

[I Got This!!!!!!]

Lou,

I've got to ask.. When it was not leaking, did you actually run your deck jets 24/7???

I am told they are awful loud, is that true?

Thanks,

Jim R.

Morning Jim, I trust you received the videos. I was just watching them myself and realized the videos seam louder than in real life. When I play in on my phone I feel there in an echo or resonating sound.
Then again mine are not really deck jets. I made these step jets basically to keep the liner tight to the wall because the water level doesn’t cover the last riser.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Lou,

Yep, I saw the videos...

Are these just small returns that squirt the water out, like putting your finger over the end of a hose, or are these actual "Deck Jets" that pulse?

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[I Got This!!!!!!]

Lou,

Yep, I saw the videos...

Are these just small returns that squirt the water out, like putting your finger over the end of a hose, or are these actual "Deck Jets" that pulse?

Thanks,

Jim R.

They are 5 -1 1/2” return fitting fed by a 2” line. The nozzles I printed on a 3d printer.

 

[Lynx]

If you’re willing to spend the money, companies like American Leak Detection can find pool leaks (and other plumbing leaks) pretty effectively. Not the same thing, but I had a maddening leak on my water main line that would come and go randomly. I finally got fed up trying to track down all the things I imagined were causing it - toilets, sinks, long showers, etc. It took a helium leak detector to find it but they confirmed my main line had a tiny leak and we found this when the plumber dug it up -

View attachment 448425

The previous owners of my home built a casita on the property and it’s clear the contractor/plumber screwed up. They tapped off the main line with a T but came up short and clearly tried to yank the main line pipe to bring it closer. In doing so they snapped the PVC further down the line and fixed their mistake by cutting the pipe and sealing it with an irrigation coupler Irrigation PVC couplers are NOT intended to fix leaks in a pressurized potable water line. They did a cheap fix. And so that coupler would drip/leak on and off with fluctuating line pressure and temperatures. We fixed it all and brought shutoff valves up to grade so that all water lines can be isolated if necessary.

I hope your leak is easy to find. This one drove me nuts for years.

I’m in Phoenix and been trying to find a leak by my filter for the last few weeks and cannot locate it. Do you remember what you paid for American Leak Detection to coke out and look at it?

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I’m in Phoenix and been trying to find a leak by my filter for the last few weeks and cannot locate it. Do you remember what you paid for American Leak Detection to coke out and look at it?

My leak was in my main city water line running between the meter the my house. So it was a pressurized line. Unfortunately, because the line was so deep, standard audio sounding techniques weren’t not conclusive enough and he had to use a helium leak detector which cost a lot more. Standard leak detection was around $400 with no guarantee. Adding on the He leak detection raised the price to $550. The additions $100 for the extra work and $50 to pay for the He gas. In the end, he traced out all of my water lines and we found the leak.

This was at the beginning of 2022. Prices may be higher.