Tested my two fill water options with Taylor K-2006-SALT - thoughts?

[haroldo]

I was planning on filling the new pool after it is completed with my soft water, but I just tested both soft and city water this this kit, and now I am not sure:

Soft water:
Free Cl 0
Combined 0
TA 250 ppm
CH 10 ppm
CYA 0
Salt 800 ppm

City water
Free Cl 1.8 ppm
Combined Cl 0.4 ppm
TA 250 ppm
CH 270 ppm
CYA 0
Salt 400 ppm

The city water doesn't seem that bad, except:
- 0.4 combined Cl - it smells like that bad chlorine smell. Would I have to shock it right away after filling to get rid of it?
- I have slight red staining on one of my sinks possibly indicating iron. I am not sure if its plumbing, or slight iron on the water

Should I buy the Taylor iron test to be sure?

My water softner is a Kinetico XP, it costs about 7K, its the most magical thing. I use maybe 4 bags of salt a year. It has 2 channels, it only regens 1 channel at a time, so soft water is always available, there is no interruption during regens.

The pool we are building is a plaster pool, about 27000 gallons.

Also, I need to point out that I just learned how to use this test kit, not sure how error proof they are. For instance, for CH, when it says "add this drop wise until it turns from red to blue", I notice that at some point it turns from red to blueish purple (is that it?), if I add a few more drops, it completely turns to light blue (which one is it, is it enough the blueish purple? or do I keep going until it is a complete light blue?) So, take my numbers with a grain of salt, I just did this for the first time.

thanks in advance for any input

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

For the CH test and most others, continue to add drops of reagent until the color no longer changes. Then subtract that last drop.

If your CH is around 270, this is a great starting point for your pool water. It's close to the minimum we recommend for a plaster pool. Fill with tap water and top off with softened water as we suggested in your other thread.

You will constantly be battling rising pH due to your high TA level.

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

For the CH and FC tests, use the 10 mL sample option to save reagents.

 

[trivetman]

I wouldn’t worry about the small level of combined CL in the fill water. I think youll see it disappear quickly as long as your fc level stays in the right range.

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

If you're on Municipal water, iron is likely not an issue. I wouldn't purchase the Tayor kit.

It's not unusual to find CCs in Municipal water. Don't worry about it.

Just Filled Your Pool with Water? Here's What To Do Next - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[ol_whistle_britches]

You were talking about filling with RO water in your other thread. Have you discarded that idea?

 

[generessler]

Interesting. Our water supplier deliberately uses chloramine as a sanitizer. (It's controversial.) I wonder if yours does, too. I'm guessing that would cause the non-zero CC.

 

[haroldo]

...
You will constantly be battling rising pH due to your high TA level.

Thanks Rancho. Noob question - what does this mean? Does it merely mean I have to control the levels with Muriatic acid routinely (which sounds ok)? Is this manageable? Your use of the word "battling" is what concerns me

 

[haroldo]

You were talking about filling with RO water in your other thread. Have you discarded that idea?

That RO system is not suitable for filling the entire pool, it is meant for the fill line after the pool is initially filled. We are still looking into it. I have an estimate in the works, but we are not sure yet if we will pull the trigger right away (is it over kill?) or if we will rock the fill line of the softner after initial tap water fill and see how it goes.

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

Your RO system will be overkill.

Does it merely mean I have to control the levels with Muriatic acid routinely (which sounds ok)? Is this manageable?

Yes, for the most part. When TA levels are high, pH rises much more quickly. This requires frequent dosing of muriatic acid to keep pH in range. Each time you add MA to drop pH, you lower your TA level as well. With top-offs, your high TA fill water will increase TA levels. This is the "battle" I'm referring to.

There is a way to lower ta by aggressively aerating and adding MA. This will be challenging with a TA level of 250. Check out the article below.

Also, let's confirm that your TA is actually that high. Use a 25 ml sample and count each drop as 10 ppm. Continue to drop until the sample no longer changes color and don't count the last drop.

Lower Total Alkalinity

A lower Total Alkalinity level can help a pool owner stabalize their pH increase. We'll explain how to lower TA with a little help from muriatic acid.

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

This is a real good set of Articles that will help you understand pool chemistry. Take a close look at the ABCs of pool chemistry and recommended levels.

Being in the construction phase, you have the unique opportunity to learn all the stuff before your pool is actually built and you make the same mistakes many of us did.

Table of Contents

List View Pool Care basics Algae Pool Equipment How To Pool Construction Miscellaneous

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[haroldo]

Your RO system will be overkill.

Yes, for the most part. When TA levels are high, pH rises much more quickly. This requires frequent dosing of muriatic acid to keep pH in range. Each time you add MA to drop pH, you lower your TA level as well. With top-offs, your high TA fill water will increase TA levels. This is the "battle" I'm referring to.

There is a way to lower ta by aggressively aerating and adding MA. This will be challenging with a TA level of 250. Check out the article below.

Also, let's confirm that your TA is actually that high. Use a 25 ml sample and count each drop as 10 ppm. Continue to drop until the sample no longer changes color and don't count the last drop.

Lower Total Alkalinity

A lower Total Alkalinity level can help a pool owner stabalize their pH increase. We'll explain how to lower TA with a little help from muriatic acid.

www.troublefreepool.com

So, I carefully re-tested TA twice, got exactly 260 both times, counting 1 drop after color stopped changing to red.

Interestingly enough, I ended up pulling the water report online for my service area:

https://www.amwater.com/caaw/resources/PDF/CCR-reports/hiddenhills_2024.pdf

The average TA is exactly what I measured (261ppm), while the range detected was 175-277

If I understand correctly there are no chemicals that can raise ph without raising alkalinity, and vice versa. So, I would end up lowering the PH while lowering PH with muriatic acid, and then would have to aerate it to rise it without also rising TA.

I do have a water feature, but I have no experience to understand how manageable this is.

 

[PoolStored]

Super manageable...you need this thread...what water features do you have? Pics?

Lower Total Alkalinity

A lower Total Alkalinity level can help a pool owner stabalize their pH increase. We'll explain how to lower TA with a little help from muriatic acid.

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[haroldo]

Super manageable...you need this thread...what water features do you have? Pics?

Lower Total Alkalinity

A lower Total Alkalinity level can help a pool owner stabalize their pH increase. We'll explain how to lower TA with a little help from muriatic acid.

www.troublefreepool.com

It will be 3 of these lion heads about 10 ft apart, powered by a 1.85hp variable speed jandy pump

Lion-Noche

Aquabella is the premier source of swimming pool tile, glass, stone, and water features.

www.aquabellatile.com

They are small like 6 inches tall I believe, hard to tell from the picture

There is also a built-in spa with 5 jets, but not sure how much that can help the rest of the pool

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

The lion heads will help a little bit. When I need to lower TA, I pull water from the pool and set returns to spa. The effect of bubbles in the spa and spillover into the pool is an aggressive means of creating aeration and driving up pH. Your spa will be your best form of creating aeration. Because my fill water is high in TA, I continually allow bit of water to spill over from the spa to the pool. This constant aeration helps me to keep TA in check on a daily basis.

 

[PoolStored]

So you will have to see how much this impact pH rise.

Another thread for you, with more technical details, pH 7.0 to 7.4 and lots of tiny bubbles is what will help you lower TA

Lowering Total Alkalinity (TA) Quickly with the Acid Aeration Method

Thought I'd make a post that might help others. We've had quite a few members this year with high TA, and I've been typing the same information over and over. I'm going to post this so I can link it to help others. High TA can cause rapid pH rise. High TA is typically caused by high TA fill...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[haroldo]

So you will have to see how much this impact pH rise.

Another thread for you, with more technical details, pH 7.0 to 7.4 and lots of tiny bubbles is what will help you lower TA

Lowering Total Alkalinity (TA) Quickly with the Acid Aeration Method

Thought I'd make a post that might help others. We've had quite a few members this year with high TA, and I've been typing the same information over and over. I'm going to post this so I can link it to help others. High TA can cause rapid pH rise. High TA is typically caused by high TA fill...

www.troublefreepool.com

thanks for that link! so for 30K pool, what would be a rough ball park of how long it could take for someone to reasonably raise pH by some delta (say, 0.1 increment) with aeration? I understand this question is vague because it depends on other things like aeration method, efficacy, etc, but what is a realistic range one should expect to be in? 24 hours range? 2 hours range? 48 hours?

 

[PoolStored]

in a 30K pool, with a good aerator, I can reduce TA by 10 in 12 hours.

 

[haroldo]

in a 30K pool, with a good aerator, I can reduce TA by 10 in 12 hours.

sorry, why do you say reduce TA? We can reduce TA with muriatic acid, I though we are discussing aeration to raise PH without raising TA, right? confused

 

[PoolStored]

pH side doesn't matter. We are trying to lower TA. So in 24 hours I can lower a TA of 120 to 100.
May take a few pH cycles to get there.