Test kit in ... let the SLAMing begin!

7 KIDS for 6 hours???????? Oh yeah that is were your FC went!!! You and I both know they added some "water" to the pool no matter what they say :roll:

You got this! Yeah the testing must be getting old but after a while you will start to see patterns and know what to do before it is needed.

:hug:

Kim:kim:
 
Hi buba
I havent got round to reading the last few pages but I can see that Needsajet and others have been helping you out
I can understand if you feel like you need a few days off testing, I know I would after all this time
You can just run your chlorine a little high for the next few days and enjoy swimming
You would probably be the only one to know that the FC was a bit high, the kids certainly wont notice

Thanks Caco hope all is good for you...Lucky we have a cooler day, bit of rain today which will help with chlorine consumption. I will do one test tonight..it is a good time to confirm actual SWG production and the SWG is working to its capacity anyway.

Yeh, I hear ya! About all I can say is "It will get easier." (especially as the days get shorter and the water a bit cooler)

I do three SWC pools in the fam on a twice a week schedule. At the beginning for each one it was more like daily or every other day until I got them sorted. For these last two scorchers, I had to do an extra check on the 27,500 litre pool that gets major kid load. In that pool, the daily FC demand goes up and down like a .... ummm .... yo yo.

It will become routine over time, and believe it or not, you'll even get instincts sometimes when FC or acid additions will be more or less than the routine amount.

Instinct is definitely what is becoming...its like the matrix ...I can tell by the smell and look of the water Im about to get hit with something, even from the type of pink I get when I test the chlorine I get close to the knowing the FC result. Repetition is the best educator :)

7 KIDS for 6 hours???????? Oh yeah that is were your FC went!!! You and I both know they added some "water" to the pool no matter what they say :roll:

You got this! Yeah the testing must be getting old but after a while you will start to see patterns and know what to do before it is needed.

:hug:
Kim:kim:
Thanks kimkats your support is always unwavering!
 
Well...lucky I tested...FC 0.5....I also measured it straight off the return and FC was 2. Will add some liquid chlorine and keep the swg on manual 100% until tomorrow night.

The pool colour is slightly cloudy. It hass been like that since the kids swam and assumed it was sunscreen etc which usually happens. However I thought it would be gone by now. Off to my chlorine dump :(
 
Glad to hear you're on it and adding liquid right away. That's a good way to go and then let the SWC do the maintaining. Be sure to raise it to your target level, not your minimum, after a low FC event. Was your pH ok?

I try (try being the operative word) to get them to wait 10 minutes for the sunscreen to soak in and go to the toilet while they're waiting.
 
Excellent :) You're doing everything right :)

I just asked about pH because I'm curious. It's only a sense, but it seems to me that when pH is a bit high (say 7.9) and the kids really thrash the pool, the post-swim cloudiness is more noticeable. It's gone in my pool by morning anyway, so I have no idea if my observation has any basis in reality!
 
Here's a math question:
Date/time FC PH TA CH SALT

7/02/2017 18:080.55000-0.50
8/02/2017 16:2018.07.5125200-0.29


7/2/17 FC was 0.5 added 1407ml of 12.5% chlorine to get it to 9.

Had SWG running for 22 hours with salt level at 5000ppm by the calculation below SWG should produce 22.12 and therefore FC should be at 31 or there abouts.
Measured FC 8/2 and FC was 18...what the? Assume FC consumption was 4ppm during this period, then FC would be 27?

SWG Calculator
Formula for SWG chlorine production
DescriptionAmountUnits
SWG model capacity25Grams/hour based on 6000ppm salt
Running time per day22Hours
% on LCD100%Bars on LCD, each bar = 10%
Pool volume20724Litres
Grams to PPM conversion1000Conversion
Production per day26.54PPM if salt @ 6000ppm
Production salt Level600025g/hr based on 6000ppm
Actual Salt level5000
Actual Production Per Day22.12Based on actual salt level


I see 3 scenarios:
1. The SWG does not produce 25g per hour as per the manual?
2. Does the SWG produce less chlorine when the current FC level is very low?
3. The maths is wrong?
 
Short answer and path to pool nirvana:

Do an OCLT to rule out algae or incoming organic contamination

Keep adjusting the SWC to get the pool to stay within your target band. Start high and dial down in small increments until you stay within your desired range. Don't adjust any quicker than maybe once every few days, and only when it goes over your max or under your min ppm FC. Try to adjust in small increments, e.g. 10% to 20% more or less run time or percentage. If it falls significantly below min, use liquid FC to get back to your midpoint and begin observing effectiveness again.

Long answer, haha...

I think you're doing your math just fine, but a few comments.

I haven't bumped into that calculation of "actual salt" divided by "optimum salt" times "FC production rate". I'm not able to find out how the electrochlor chlorinator works, but it's common for SWGs to adjust current to keep production the same. They have to in order to maintain the spec production level as the cell plates erode. Some adjust voltage. Most people just use the design output for this sort of calculation, but of course everyone is assuming the salt level is within range for the SWC (yours says 5,000 to 6,500), so maybe that factor exists for some chlorinators. I'm still on a quest to learn more about actual salt vs. optimum salt!! It doesn't make any electrical sense to me that it would make a difference, other than when the salt level is seriously below or above the intended range and the design range for the electronics and power supply were exceeded.

Your manual says that the salt light will come on depending on salt level, temperature and mains voltage. I'm the furthest thing from an electronics expert, but I believe that if it varies based on mains voltage, then perhaps the power supply is varying voltage to maintain constant production. If it was varying amps, the electronics could care less about mains voltage. Hopefully an electronics expert reads this and could guess. But given other gibberish in the manual, I don't have a lot of confidence in that statement anyway, and I can't see why their electronics couldn't adjust for mains voltage. Our mains voltage runs 240 to 250 VAC.

This is strictly my own suggestion, but I would give myself a high and wide range (say 5-10 ppm FC) because:
1. the chlorinator output is very high relative to the pool volume
2. high bather load per cubic metre of water has a bigger impact on residual FC
3. 10 ppm FC with 60 ppm CYA is unnoticeable in clean pool water
4. you had a problem in the past due to the cover

When chem additions aren't making sense, sometimes the pool volume is off. You can log your chem addition calcs vs. actual change and see if you're overshooting more often or undershooting more often and adjust the pool volume.

To be sure the pool is not eating chlorine beyond what it needs for UV and bather load, I would do an OCLT.

There's no material difference in SWG production rate at shock level of FC.

Hopefully TFP lands an Aussie SWC expert as good as the TFP experts are on USA chlorinators. It's sure hard to get from the manufacturer's literature! The electrochlor manual starts off with a statement about how the chlorinator works that is entirely wrong, so you don't get a lot of faith in how well they understand their product. In fairness, they stay focused on how to make it work in a pool, which is what counts at the end of the day.

It's on my list to do some measurements on the electrochlor I work with, so some day I might know more. For now with a similar volume pool and that LCD screen almost cooked off by past sunshine, it's all I can do to keep the FC between 2 and 5 (CYA 40)! On top of that, the chlorinator is randomly deciding to run overnight about once a fortnight, so I'm working on that little wrinkle, which pops the FC up to about 8. No problems and swimming is good, but I just wanna fix it!!

That's not much help, mate. But as far as I can tell, your math is certainly sound.

Sorry for long answer but I get the sense you like delving into the details. Be brutally honest if I overdo it!
 
Well I am going to say this my way LOL No math, no real back up, just from the gut.

Don't worry about the math you have done. It says you should have a FC of xx BUT it is not there when you test.

Do as needs says. Adjust your SWG to high, see what it does, adjust down slowly until you find what is right for it and your pool. Go by the facts as your tests show you.

That is just my 2 cents. Take it for what it is worth.

:hug:

Kim:kim:
 

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Wow, been out for a couple of days, but that is a deep post needsajet :). I got my FC down to 14 now with SWG at 50% so will monitor. SYdney going through a heat wave at the moment with 40 degree + days...and we are using the pool for a few hours a day. I do agree though, when in doubt an OCLT will not hurt, so may do one over the course of the weekend.

Kimkats, agreed as well, there are so many variables in the efficiency and productivity of an SWG and not enough information as to how they impact it...so it is all a guessing game. Your 2 cents worth is like gold!
 
Its been 3 days with some hot weather and some decent pool usage. FC on 10/2 was 14 and now it 9.5...pretty good considering. SWG on 50% so upped it 60% to see if it will maintain.

Pool is clear, not happy with the chlorine smell at the moment. Almost feels like it has gotten stronger the last few days so may be fighting something. Next available chance I think I will have o do an OCLT. Also thinking to raise my CYA id the OCLT is ok. At guess I was measuring 38...against the standard the reall measure is probably 55 to 60 so wont hurt raising it by 10-15 as the ideal is 70. If OCLT not ok then will drop to 30 and re do my favourite SLAM.

All Im gonna say is...it better be ok :calm:
 
You can SLAM at 60 ppm CYA (24 ppm FC) without a worry, mate. Based on 15 litre 12.5% chlorine from Bunnings, it's 4 litres or $3 to get to SLAM. After that, the maintenance amount will be much the same at 30 ppm CYA or 60 ppm CYA, so not worth draining half the water, which is more like $23. Also, you can use a 5 ml sample and measure FC at 1 drop = 1 ppm FC.

Sorry to hear about the chloramine smell. Hopefully it's just high number of people per amount of water and the chlorine is just doing its job.

You're definitely whipping that pool into shape :whip:
 
:goodpost:

I agree SLAM at 60 or 70. I wouldnt redrain just to lower CYA in this case

The extreme high temps will definitely be playing a role and the high UV wont help keep the FC up. I would assume a high bather load as well

FWIW I cannot smell CC at 0.5 but I can definitely smell it before it gets to 1.0
Your nose may just be a warning signal to say things are on the cusp of getting out of control

You may want to play with your pump and SWG run time to spread throughout the day. That way there would be no FC levels dropping too low at any point. Maybe consider a bleach topup at night after you have finished with the pool to bring it to 75%ish of slam until you can run an OCLT and check all is ok. I would also be running a CC check with every FC test you do
 
Have you had the cover off for a while? It needs to be off to help outgass the CC.

Kim:kim:

Hi Kimkats...yeah I take the cover off daily for a couple of hours and on the weekends it stays mostly off. I should get into the habit of opening it in the morning when there is a smell atleast.

You can SLAM at 60 ppm CYA (24 ppm FC) without a worry, mate. Based on 15 litre 12.5% chlorine from Bunnings, it's 4 litres or $3 to get to SLAM. After that, the maintenance amount will be much the same at 30 ppm CYA or 60 ppm CYA, so not worth draining half the water, which is more like $23. Also, you can use a 5 ml sample and measure FC at 1 drop = 1 ppm FC.

Sorry to hear about the chloramine smell. Hopefully it's just high number of people per amount of water and the chlorine is just doing its job.

You're definitely whipping that pool into shape :whip:

All good points Needs thanks. I have a tendancy to go the extreme without thinking sometimes :).

I havent done an OCLT yet or tested will need to find the time during this week, just been so busy. Water was not as clear as it should be either, just looked a bit dull..no green more a white so could be from the thunderstorms we have been having.
 
Yeh, the thunderstorms bring a load of nitrogen that needs to be neutralised. I put my pump on steady overnight and the pool looked OK in the morning.

Glad you're planning an OCLT. I don't know the ins of outs of keeping a pool covered that much. It's not good having CC odours, so maybe it's possible to include a little more sunlight time to help burn them off?
 
HI Guys and Girls,
If UV index is zero...can I do my OCLT:

ARPANSA - Sydney Realtime UV Index Data

EDIT: called off my OCLT. My pH was fine at 7.4 and my FC was bad at 2.0. Dropped in 1325mL chlorine to get back up to 10. Will run my SWG at 80% until I come home from work tomorrow evening and work out if I do an OCLT then. Either I am being ignorant or naive but I still am hoping it isnt algae and it is amount of rain and sun we have been having.

With the amount of rain does CYA drop as I have an overflow. If the rain water mixes in and over flows then in theory it is the same as water replacement as the rain I assume would sink and the good stuff goes? Not sure just a theory I thought worth asking?
 

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