TA level

[Melnox]

I'm a new user and subscriber. I see the app logs ALK-TA (total alkalinity) not ALK-C (carbonate alkalinity).

As seen on the last page of the taylor treatmet guide, the taylor kit tests ALK-TA not ALK-C. Like JamesW said above, you can subtract (CYA X CYAf) as well as borates (B x Bf) to reveal your actual ALK-C.

The taylor guide claims that CYA and Borates lead to a false high result of "TA".

My question is, if according to taylor's guide, the ideal range of TA is 80-120 ppm. Is this ideal range ALK-TA or ALK-C? It seems logical that it is meant to be ALK-C 80-120 ppm but it's not clear because it just says "TA"

So, not to beat a dead horse, but does poolmath's ideal TA range of 60-80 ppm mean ALK-TA or ALK-C, after the ALK-TA minus CYA & borate factor adjustments?

 

[PoolStored]

Taylor test is calcium carbonate (CaCO3).

Taylor describes the practice of deducting 1/3 of the CYA value which in effect is removing the cyanurate alkalinity portion to produce the carbonate alkalinity value. Taylor then use this carbonate alkalinity value to calculate their Saturation index (SI).

In practice the concentration of the cyanurate ion is pH dependent where at a pH of 7.0 it is 22% of the CYA. The percentage increases with pH where at a pH of 8.0 it is 36% of the CYA value.

When cyanuric acid is added to the water, the hydrogen ions that are released lower the TA as much as the resulting cyanurate raises the TA. So, adding cyanuric acid has no net effect on TA.

The Taylor recommendation of 80-120 is based on the use of pucks which are acidic. We don't recommend pucks. We recommend liquid chlorine and Salt Water Generators. A TA of 60-80 will lower the pH rise, using liquid or salt generator, vs. a TA of 80-120.

So, not to beat a dead horse, but does poolmath's ideal TA range of 60-80 ppm mean ALK-TA or ALK-C, after the ALK-TA minus CYA & borate factor adjustments?

It means you enter the result of the TA test using the recommended test kit. We don't use SI (the whole machination from taylor around CYA). We use CSI. Enter your test results from the TA test into pool math and it takes care of the calculations to get CSI.

TA - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

CSI and LSI - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[JamesW]

My question is, if according to taylor's guide, the ideal range of TA is 80-120 ppm. Is this ideal range ALK-TA or ALK-C?

The "Ideal" is boilerplate from the 1950s.

Their ideal range is Total Alkalinity.

To calculate the CSI, they use carbonate alkalinity, which is described in the Taylor booklet.

Taylor test is calcium carbonate (CaCO3).

The test is for total alkalinity and the result is reported in units of calcium carbonate.

The CH (Calcium Hardness) test is also reported in units of calcium carbonate.

The calcium hardness test measures calcium ion concentration.

The actual thing tested is not always the units that are used for reporting.

For example, salt can be measured as chloride or conductivity, but the units are sodium chloride for reporting.

Calcium hardness can be reported in units of calcium carbonate or in units of calcium ion concentration.

Salt is usually reported as sodium and chloride ion concentrations for things like Water Quality Reports issued by local Utilities.

So, different industries can use different reporting units.

Chlorine is reported in units of Cl2.

Cyanuric acid is reported in units of cyanuric acid.

Borate is reported in units of boron.

 

[JamesW]

Borates and Adjusted Alkalinity​

Adjusted TA = TA – (CYA X CYA C.F) – (Borate x Borate CF)

Borate C.F (correction factor) based on pH.

pH.......CF

7.2.....0.051

7.4.......0.0786

7.6......0.1248

7.8......0.1989

Cyanuric Acid correction factor based on pH.

pH........CF

7.0.......0.22

7.1.......0.24

7.2.......0.26

7.3.......0.28

7.4.......0.30

7.5.......0.32

7.6.......0.33

7.7.......0.34

7.8.......0.35

7.9.......0.36

For example, if the pH = 7.6, TA = 90, Borate = 50 and CYA = 70, the adjusted alkalinity is 90 - (70 x 0.33) – (50 x 0.1248) = 60.66.

The Taylor Wheel for CSI uses carbonate alkalinity, but I think that their calculator uses total alkalinity.

So, it can be confusing to figure out who uses what numbers.