SWG selection and installation questions

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peirek

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Jun 21, 2017
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Sachse, TX
Hi gang,
I am trying to help friends move to SWG. I just concluded a SLAM process with them and explained why their pool guy was failing them dumping liquid chlorine in their pool once a week...... They are ready to move to SWG and fire the pool guy.

Pool is ~20,000 gallons per original pool builder. However, based on measurements during SLAM, I am guessing closer to 22-23,000.

On to SWG selection and installation. They have a Pentair Intelliflo vs-3050. They do not have automation. I would recommend an IC-60 but am realizing a couple of issues.
1) The pump and SWG do not integrate without automation control.
2) Without automation, would require separate timer for SWG and have be manually synchronized with pump timer?
3) Warranty only valid if installed by certified Pool Company.
4) If installed vertically, flow must be up. They have a perfect place but flow is down..... Not a big deal but just some extra plumbing to install it horizontally.

I’ve been reading other posting but don’t have a clear view of how to define and characterize different options and ultimately a recommendation.

Simplest, but most expensive, is automation and IC-60. However, not sure on automation options and selection.
Other options are to add timer and power pump and SWG from it. I read the pump will maintain memory for at least 24 hours. This seems to complicate the controlling of two functions a bit and feels more like a band aid.

I am 100% open to your thought and wisdom.
 
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p,

I am a rabid Pentair kind of guy, but even so, I would not recommend the Pentair SWCG without automation.

If this were my pool I would probably go with one of the the CircuPool SWCGs.

The three options for running a SWCG with a VS pump are..

Run the pump at a low RPM 24/7... (I do this and the total cost is less than $20 bucks a month..)

A mechanical timer.. the simplest off the shelf approach.

Current sensor... have to build yourself..

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
Jimrahbe said:
p,

I am a rabid Pentair kind of guy, but even so, I would not recommend the Pentair SWCG without automation.

If this were my pool I would probably go with one of the the CircuPool SWCGs.

The three options for running a SWCG with a VS pump are..

Run the pump at a low RPM 24/7... (I do this and the total cost is less than $20 bucks a month..)

A mechanical timer.. the simplest off the shelf approach.

Current sensor... have to build yourself..

Thanks,

Jim R.
Click to expand...

I appreciate you input and advice! Thank you
 
Thanks Jim.
I see the automation (Pentair EasyTouch) adds about $800 to the total cost.
  1. EasyTouch8 SC-IC-60 $1929.99 (includes 8 relays, 4 valve actuators, etc. etc - likely overkill) I assume the valve actuators are a direct replacement and fit standard Jandy valves?
  2. IC60 SWG w/power center is $1,129.99.
I went with the CircuPool RJ-45 as I have a single speed pump and integration was simple. Plus warranty did not require installation by authorized pool company.

Would the T-104 timer be the timer of choice for their setup? If they decided to go with CircuPool RJ-60 could they still program the pump to run high speed during skimming actions and lower speed the rest of the time to generate chlorine? In other words is the programming maintained?
 
Paul,

The timer only controls the SWCG and has no effect on the operation of the pump.. There is little need to run at a high speed to skim, but that option is still available. The valve actuators mount to the top of a Standard manual Jandy valve.. Instead of turning the valve manually, the actuator does it electrically..

If the people that you are trying to help have a Pool and Spa, then adding automation would make a lot of sense.. Without a Spa, it is fun to have, but not at all needed..

The current sensor is a good option, but does have a few challenges... You can't just buy it and use it. As an example the timer can just be installed and connected.. It comes with a water proof box and is rated for pool use.. The current sensor has to be installed into some type of box with a terminal board for connecting all the electrical wires.. None of this is rated for pool use.. Will it work, sure it will, but it takes a little more of the DIY effort than a buy it and install it box...

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
Jimrahbe said:
Paul,

The timer only controls the SWCG and has no effect on the operation of the pump.. There is little need to run at a high speed to skim, but that option is still available. The valve actuators mount to the top of a Standard manual Jandy valve.. Instead of turning the valve manually, the actuator does it electrically..

If the people that you are trying to help have a Pool and Spa, then adding automation would make a lot of sense.. Without a Spa, it is fun to have, but not at all needed..

The current sensor is a good option, but does have a few challenges... You can't just buy it and use it. As an example the timer can just be installed and connected.. It comes with a water proof box and is rated for pool use.. The current sensor has to be installed into some type of box with a terminal board for connecting all the electrical wires.. None of this is rated for pool use.. Will it work, sure it will, but it takes a little more of the DIY effort than a buy it and install it box...

Thanks,

Jim R.
Click to expand...
They do have a spa and thus the EasyTouch may be the way to go if the cost is not prohibitive for them.

I can present a couple of options:
1) Easytouch and IC60 package deal - requires Pentair Certified Installer. Most costly upfront ($1929.99 + Install) but has additional functionality to control heater/spa valves, etc.
2) Run pump 24x7 on low speed but fast enough to enable SWG (during months water temp is above SWG generating capability) & add CircuPool RJ-60+ - can be installed by homeowner or handyman without impacting warranty. Least costly up front ($1139.00 + Install) and no need for external timer and synchronizing with pump timer. Probably adds a small cost to monthly electric bill.
3) Add CircuPool RJ-60+ and external timer. The external timer requirements of keeping pump clock and timer clock synchronized scares me a bit. Although CircuPool claims the flow switch is a safe way to control the SWG. I don't buy this after understanding a failure of a flow switch results in BOOM.

I believe the current sensing option is out as there is no commercially available product.

Has anyone considered dual/redundant flow sensors to mitigate the risk of using them to manage SWG? Wired in series both would be required to indicate flow to enable SWG.
 

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Paul,

I am big on having a primary and secondary safety for a SWCG.. That said, the actual chance of an explosion is very, very slim... So it is not like having the timer get out of sync is going to cause an immediate explosion.. Just checking the timer once a month or after any power outage would be fine.. Kind of the whole point for having two safety devices...

In my mind, if you have a Spa, it really makes the most sense to have an EasyTouch, IntelliFlo pump and IC60... Let me put it this way.. If I loaned them one for 60 days, I'd have to pry it from their cold dead hands to get it back... :)

Jim R.
 
However, the opposite view on getting the timer out of sync can also mean the SWG is not on when the pump is. So algae can make its dreaded come back......

I am with you 100% on the automation. Their pocketbooks may or may not agree. It will be something for them to ponder. :unsure:
 
L,
A couple of questions/comments.
1) Nice job and quite simple.
2) I see you passed through 3 times. Is this to ensure tripping when on low speed?
3) Is the 20A wire (yellow) large enough for your breaker? My pump has a 30A breaker.
4) I assume the one 240v leg is in series with your pump motor which requires additional set of wires into/out of pump?
5) SWG is running on 110V.
6) You opted for no delay on the relay.
7) Did you connect the pool bond wire to the metal box? Probably not required but I am a bit anal on bonding everything.
 
2) I see you passed through 3 times. Is this to ensure tripping when on low speed?
A - Yes, I wanted more trip point resolution at the low end.

3) Is the 20A wire (yellow) large enough for your breaker? My pump has a 30A breaker.
A- Max draw of my pump is 10 amps.

4) I assume the one 240v leg is in series with your pump motor which requires additional set of wires into/out of pump?
A - No, both lines comes from the breaker and through the CSR box and then onto the motor. In the CSR box one line is looped through the transformer. No other lines required.

5) SWG is running on 110V.
A - Yes. Even though my SWCG can be wired for either 220 or 110, I felt that using 110V was simpler.

6) You opted for no delay on the relay.
A - Yes, I didn't see any advantage to it especially since I was switching a completely different circuit ( 110V)

7) Did you connect the pool bond wire to the metal box? Probably not required but I am a bit anal on bonding everything.
A- No. Bringing in the pool bond into the shed would require having to bond all the other electrical equipment in the shed to it also.
 
Below is an article i wrote on pentairs pool aurtomation. I have been happy with the system-- hope it is of help to you,
 

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  • Di y pool automation.pdf
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Instead of using a current sensing relay (CSR), has anyone considered using a pressure switch on the filter head to detect when the pump is running? A relay would still be needed in my case, since I only have 220VAC and no Neutral wire available. If I use a relay to switch the two hot wires controlled by either a CSR or pressure switch, my only option would be to run only one of the 220VAC hot wires to the relay coil. Is that an acceptable wiring setup? I have yet to see a wiring diagram for a CSR with a relay in 220VAC only configuration in all the discussions on the forum.
 
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