SWG has suddenly reduced Chlorine production

markayash

Gold Supporter
Mar 21, 2016
3,604
Atlanta Ga
Hey Jay !!!

Looks like we have a classic case of over management going on, and we’ve ALL been there with our new found skills. You’re trying to combine things that are separate entities and shooting yourself in the foot in the process. Like splitting up the SWG runtime to increase skimming potential at different times. It sounds great on paper until it alters the SWG cycle because the times you chose don’t line up with the SWG cycle, making your XX% really be YY% which will be too much or not enough.

So the KISS principal applies here. Need FC production ? Run the SWG to achieve it. Need more skimming/ filtering ? Add that as a separate entity with the SWG off at that time.

Or Keep It Stupid Simple, Stupid. (KISSS :ROFLMAO:). There are far to many benefits of running the pump 24/7 to list and almost no negatives. You’ll only have to adjust cell % instead of both cell and pump. You’ll skim and filter full time and if a storm hits overnight, you are mixing already. If crud falls on a windy afternoon….. yup. You got that covered too already skimming. Filtering becomes a non issue as you’re always at your cleanest. And pumps don’t like the on/off cycle. it takes many many cycles to harm it, but it takes that much longer if you only cycle the pump a few times a year for maintenance like filter cleanings. Commercial pumps that never shut off will run for decades sometimes.

The only downside is about $20 a month on the electric bill. Mere peanuts as you already pay something to run the pump. So maybe it’s only $12 more. I feel so strongly about 24/7 I would gladly pay 4 years upfront to do so. Here ya go…. $400. Now leave me alone while I *dont* care about everything that most have to care about.

The same goes for target range. If you want to watch your FC like a Hawk you can cut it as close to minimum as possible. I targeted 10 and usually overproduced. I had a few days reserve FC at all times. It burns off a little quicker as a % at higher levels, so maybe I ‘wasted’ 1/3 of my FC. I was willing to trade that for never having to care about UV, daily loss, heavy rain, debris, etc.

If I told anyone that they could never care about algae for $50 (?) in wasted chlorine a year and maybe $10 extra in monthly electric, most folks would have dug it out of their pocket before I finished my sentence.
And once your water turns green you spend can easily spend $20 or more to correct it. That’s just buying chlorine, go to a pool store and would be closer to $200 😎
 
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geonjay

Active member
Jun 8, 2020
29
Charlotte, NC
Pool Size
15000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Hayward Aqua Rite (T-9)
Looks like we have a classic case of over management going on, and we’ve ALL been there with our new found skills. You’re trying to combine things that are separate entities and shooting yourself in the foot in the process. Like splitting up the SWG runtime to increase skimming potential at different times. It sounds great on paper until it alters the SWG cycle because the times you chose don’t line up with the SWG cycle, making your XX% really be YY% which will be too much or not enough.

So the KISS principal applies here. Need FC production ? Run the SWG to achieve it. Need more skimming/ filtering ? Add that as a separate entity with the SWG off at that time.

... If you want to watch your FC like a Hawk you can cut it as close to minimum as possible.
I believe you are describing my situation perfectly - I'm over complicating it...story of my life :)

The PB set my min pump at 40% - I need to read the book and figure out how to reduce that in the OmniHub (it's not in the readily available settings), then find the min pump setting that will keep the SWG running. I don't mind running the pump 24/7. I need to better understand how my automation system handles the switch between pump settings, and how long I need to run the SWG consecutively be sure the cycles are being run - Are those 3 x 6 hour cycles at the minimum pump RPM interleaved with 2 x 3 hour cycles with no SWG and the pump running at a good skimming speed? I know it'll be trial and error on the RPMs, but how should I time the SWG cycles?

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS!! Pool has been holding a FC of 8ppm for the last 2 days after I used 96oz of bleach to "catch me up". Is an OCLT still recommended?
 

geonjay

Active member
Jun 8, 2020
29
Charlotte, NC
Pool Size
15000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Hayward Aqua Rite (T-9)
I need to find a better balance with the testing AND acid additions. As of now I'm adding ~13oz of MA every day. I know I'm still breaking in new plaster...but I'm hoping to find a better balance with the pH.
 

Newdude

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jun 16, 2019
11,558
NY
I know it'll be trial and error on the RPMs, but how should I time the SWG cycles?
Just consider it on for however long you need. With 24/7 runtime it’s even easier as there is less maths. 50% of the day is 12 hours ‘on’. Units are rated figuring 100% runtime. With a 2X unit you need 12 hours to produce what the smaller one does in 24. So figure out your proportion and start there. As the season winds down now, you won’t need full production so you’ll fine tune it down. A few weeks from now UV/ daily demand will decrease and you’ll overproduce. Turn it down a skootch to match the next drop off. And so on. In the spring it’s the exact opposite. You’ll be on the lookout for all the times the UV increases and bump up the % to match every few weeks. It could be 2 weeks or 6. Regular testing will let you know when to listen to what your pool is telling you.
Pool has been holding a FC of 8ppm for the last 2 days after I used 96oz of bleach to "catch me up". Is an OCLT still recommended?
If you hit minimum or below while it got away from you, an OCLT is warranted for peace of mind alone. Algae grows exponentially and those last few cycles of growth are the difference between clear water and swamp. Many folks keep it at bay unknowingly and refuse to listen to the testing telling them better. But the water is CLEAR !!! Ok. Prove it. :) And if there *is* something going on, you just bought a massive leg up in the battle starting it earlier.
need to find a better balance with the testing AND acid additions. As of now I'm adding ~13oz of MA every day. I know I'm still breaking in new plaster...but I'm hoping to find a better balance with the pH.
Your acid demand will be high for a while. Many folks see 6 months to a year. It’s ok and normal, just part of the process. Again, listen to your pool. It’s telling you everything you need to know. :)

Ask away anytime for anything. We will happily fill in any blanks.
 
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Newdude

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jun 16, 2019
11,558
NY
*also, you have different things that need activating. Run the pump low and increase RPMs until the SWG kicks on. Add 100 RPMs to factor restricted flow as the filter does its thing and that’s your speed you need. Repeat for the heater. Then run the speed that you need for what you’re doing at that time. If you aren’t using the heater, the slower speed makes the SWG happy. Need the heater, run that speed and the SWG is already satisfied. (Assuming your heater needs more flow than the SWG like most do).

The same goes for skimming. Once the door is dropping away, you’re good. If that is above the SWG speed……. 2 birds with one stone. Or vice versa.
 
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ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
29,710
Northern NJ
Pool Size
35000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
how long I need to run the SWG consecutively be sure the cycles are being run - Are those 3 x 6 hour cycles at the minimum pump RPM interleaved with 2 x 3 hour cycles with no SWG and the pump running at a good skimming speed? I know it'll be trial and error on the RPMs, but how should I time the SWG cycles?

You should run your SWG the entire time your pump is running. There is no reason to cycle your SWG on and off.

Use the SWG % output setting to control the chlorine generation.
 

geonjay

Active member
Jun 8, 2020
29
Charlotte, NC
Pool Size
15000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Hayward Aqua Rite (T-9)
Just consider it on for however long you need. With 24/7 runtime it’s even easier as there is less maths.
You should run your SWG the entire time your pump is running. There is no reason to cycle your SWG on and off.

Use the SWG % output setting to control the chlorine generation.
Ok, so no SWG schedules - just leave it on and adjust output. For the pump, find the min RPM necessary to get the SWG running then bump it up a few hundred RPMs. Can I run scheduled cycles to force a higher RPM a few times a day to help with skimming - or is that nonsense? I need to refresh myself on the Omnihub schedule logic - if the run times overlap I "THINK" it will prevent the pump from ever turning off...as opposed to having one cycle end at the exact time another starts. I've noticed that when running at the lowest setting (currently 40%..I haven't switched it to RPM yet) it doesn't skim as well.
 

ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
29,710
Northern NJ
Pool Size
35000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Ok, so no SWG schedules - just leave it on and adjust output. For the pump, find the min RPM necessary to get the SWG running then bump it up a few hundred RPMs.

Bump it up 100-200 rpm. That's all you need to do.

Can I run scheduled cycles to force a higher RPM a few times a day to help with skimming - or is that nonsense?

You need to see if higher RPM and for how long gives you a significant difference in skimming.

I need to refresh myself on the Omnihub schedule logic - if the run times overlap I "THINK" it will prevent the pump from ever turning off...as opposed to having one cycle end at the exact time another starts. I've noticed that when running at the lowest setting (currently 40%..I haven't switched it to RPM yet) it doesn't skim as well.

I am more familiar with the Jandy and Pentair automation. In those when there are multipel schedules at teh same time the higher speed wins. So you set the filter/pump schedule to be the 24/7 background schedule at the lowest speed you want.
 
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Newdude

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jun 16, 2019
11,558
NY
Can I run scheduled cycles to force a higher RPM a few times a day to help with skimming - or is that nonsense
If it skims at any of the already needed RPM, you’re already good.
I've noticed that when running at the lowest setting (currently 40%..I haven't switched it to RPM yet) it doesn't skim as well.
You have to play with all of it and see what works best for what. Many find that whatever RPMs they need to skim already activate the SWG. In my case, 1200 RPMs for the SWG skimmer fine. It takes a minute to figure out all of your new toys and how they work together. Then there is chemistry ta boot. Don’t get discouraged if you miss something because everytime you mess something up, the cure will be cemented in your knowledge.

You got this.
 
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markayash

Gold Supporter
Mar 21, 2016
3,604
Atlanta Ga
If it skims at any of the already needed RPM, you’re already good.

You have to play with all of it and see what works best for what. Many find that whatever RPMs they need to skim already activate the SWG. In my case, 1200 RPMs for the SWG skimmer fine. It takes a minute to figure out all of your new toys and how they work together. Then there is chemistry ta boot. Don’t get discouraged if you miss something because everytime you mess something up, the cure will be cemented in your knowledge.

You got this.
All pumps are different but mine shows watts and going from 1700 to 1800 rpm was something like 20 watts. So don’t tweak it too much to save money, splitting pennys 😎
 
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geonjay

Active member
Jun 8, 2020
29
Charlotte, NC
Pool Size
15000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Hayward Aqua Rite (T-9)
This morning I'm at FC=11. I'm using a 10mL sample, for the first time I decided to try 1 dipper of the DPD powder and compare it to 2 dippers. 1 dipper = FC 10.5; 2 dippers = FC 11.
I had the SWG running at 60%; I've moved it down to 50% and will continue measuring. I'll target FC = 8. I'll try to do the OCLT on Sunday night.
Currently the "low" setting = 44% of pump power and consumes ~154Watts. 154Watts * 24 Hours * 30 days * $0.129 / kWh = ~$15/month. I can't easily get to the equipment pad right now (it's surrounded by mud from the rain and lack of grass) - but I'll get out there and see about switching it to RPMs and changing the "low" setting to an even lower value.
 
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Newdude

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jun 16, 2019
11,558
NY
I'm using a 10mL sample, for the first time I decided to try 1 dipper of the DPD powder and compare it to 2 dippers. 1 dipper = FC 10.5; 2 dippers = FC 11.
So the ‘heaping scoop’ of powder is subjective on the tester. You only need what the test needs and any extra doesn’t mix. If you have a grain or two swirling around the bottom, it means it’s just right. Find that amount and use that to save powder.
had the SWG running at 60%; I've moved it down to 50% and will continue measuring. I'll target FC = 8. I'll try to do the OCLT on Sunday night
(y)
Currently the "low" setting = 44% of pump power and consumes ~154Watts. 154Watts * 24 Hours * 30 days * $0.129 / kWh = ~$15/month. I can't easily get to the equipment pad right now (it's surrounded by mud from the rain and lack of grass) - but I'll get out there and see about switching it to RPMs and changing the "low" setting to an even lower value
Mere peanuts as is, and even less peanuts if you lower it.
 
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