SWG and phosphates
- Thread starter kadavis
- Start date
- May 3, 2014
- 58,732
- Pool Size
- 6000
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
The author has some vested interest --
Arko is currently the recreational product specialist for NC Brands, the parent company of Natural Chemistry and SeaKlear.
Arko is currently the recreational product specialist for NC Brands, the parent company of Natural Chemistry and SeaKlear.
Everybody in my area seems to think SWG don't do well when phosphate are over 500. Even installers who aren't selling any products seem to think this as well in my area.
I actually thought I had an issue with my SWG recently which was under warranty and the original installer told me he wouldn't come test the cell until I was sure phosphate were under 100. Then a second person I used in the past that instead a pump told me the same thing. Ironically, both were just installers with no products to sale or even recommend.
Phosphate seem to be a debated topics.
My own tests at home and 3 stores had me at around 400-500. I tried an extra strength commercial phosphate remover and all I know is I stopped having issues with the SWG.
I actually thought I had an issue with my SWG recently which was under warranty and the original installer told me he wouldn't come test the cell until I was sure phosphate were under 100. Then a second person I used in the past that instead a pump told me the same thing. Ironically, both were just installers with no products to sale or even recommend.
Phosphate seem to be a debated topics.
My own tests at home and 3 stores had me at around 400-500. I tried an extra strength commercial phosphate remover and all I know is I stopped having issues with the SWG.
High levels of iron in a municipal water source?? That’s something I don’t see a lot of. I also find it so rare there’s not a single test result spoke of in the entire article. So rare from Aqua Magazine.
While phosphate scaling can be a real thing in SWG’s it’s not nearly as large of an issue as this article paints.
I would slam the pool and a few weeks later it would turn slightly green/cloudy. It was barely noticeable, but each day I noticed it getting worse and worse and chlorine levels dropping. After about 3 weeks. Another slam. Following what was in the outlined in the pool school book.
My chlorine levels were dropping pretty quick.
Removing the phosphate and it seemed to go away and not return. Might be coincidence or something else. But chlorine levels seemed more stable and if anything now on the high side.
I ordered the phosphate remover on Amazon. Seems like the little bit I used should last years.
For fifty or more years, millions of pools have been maintained in pristine condition. Now, someone "invents" phosphate removers and it's the next magic bullet we all need, I am not buying it.
I know how they work and I know how badly they are misunderstood by most pool stores and I know that some brands are good,,,,making others "bad"?
I also know that when we throw things in our pool and we don't know the specific outcome, we REALLY want them to work (after all, we paid good money) so there is a tendency to see benefit where none exists.
I know how they work and I know how badly they are misunderstood by most pool stores and I know that some brands are good,,,,making others "bad"?
I also know that when we throw things in our pool and we don't know the specific outcome, we REALLY want them to work (after all, we paid good money) so there is a tendency to see benefit where none exists.
Could the same thing be said about borates? I'm new here, so I'm not sure if people tested or added borates 50 years ago.
One thing for me is that it's really inexpensive if it's just once a year. I had a reading of around 500 in a 16k pool and I treated 1,000ppm for a 20k pool and it cost me 4 dollars. I bought a 30 ounce bottle for about 30 dollars on Amazon. I only needed 4 ounces, so as long as it doesn't go bad. It's only costing 4 dollars a year.
The subject of phosphates in general and the Op's question of Phosphates with a SWG are two separate subjects. PoolFL, I encourage you to start your own thread on the subject as I suspect some additional information surrounds your issue.
Phosphates causing scale on the cell of a SWG is something that can occur, however it's rather rare. This article from Aqua Magazine is one that I've seen before and left me rolling my eyes over and over. An "author" who works for the company writes an article mixing some truth with some far stretched truth to convince those that they need to sell a product to every customer who enters their stores. Many of the claims they make do and can occur HOWEVER it's very rare they actually occur.
Phosphates causing scale on the cell of a SWG is something that can occur, however it's rather rare. This article from Aqua Magazine is one that I've seen before and left me rolling my eyes over and over. An "author" who works for the company writes an article mixing some truth with some far stretched truth to convince those that they need to sell a product to every customer who enters their stores. Many of the claims they make do and can occur HOWEVER it's very rare they actually occur.
Borates are quite a bit more straightforward. They certainly do provide some buffering capability. The dosage is easily managed and they certainly do no harm, Whether they do much appreciable good, I have always been just a little skeptical........I can live with them or without them.
Phosphate removers seem not so forgiving. Some brands are apparently good while others are apparently not. Some folks toss in the PR and that's that. Others insist the phosphates need to be at or near zero to have ANY effectiveness at all. Pr's cannot be used if a well is your resource water, I think. I think it's because you cannot use sequestrants and PR together.
At some combination of circumstances, PR apparently turns your pool cloudy. That's a real downside and tough to explain to the newbie searching for the magic bullet,
PR's seem to have a LOT of drawbacks and the only good side is the apparent reduction of chlorine usage.........although that seem vague and/or small at best.
On top of that, I think nitrites is another excellent source of algae food found in your pool so that may have to be addressed at some point. (uh-oh.....nitrate remover?)
So, I do not consider them in the same ballpark as borates. There are too many "yeah, but"'s for me to think of them as a viable option.....especially when it seems the sole function of PR is to reduce the use of the finest algae killer on the planet.
Phosphate removers seem not so forgiving. Some brands are apparently good while others are apparently not. Some folks toss in the PR and that's that. Others insist the phosphates need to be at or near zero to have ANY effectiveness at all. Pr's cannot be used if a well is your resource water, I think. I think it's because you cannot use sequestrants and PR together.
At some combination of circumstances, PR apparently turns your pool cloudy. That's a real downside and tough to explain to the newbie searching for the magic bullet,
PR's seem to have a LOT of drawbacks and the only good side is the apparent reduction of chlorine usage.........although that seem vague and/or small at best.
On top of that, I think nitrites is another excellent source of algae food found in your pool so that may have to be addressed at some point. (uh-oh.....nitrate remover?)
So, I do not consider them in the same ballpark as borates. There are too many "yeah, but"'s for me to think of them as a viable option.....especially when it seems the sole function of PR is to reduce the use of the finest algae killer on the planet.
I tried to read what I wrote a few times and your responses. What makes you think I have an issue? I "had" an issue and explained once I removed the phosphates the issue didn't return. I can't start a thread on asking for help when I don't have an issue.
If I do have an issue I'm just unware of what current issue I have?
I'm personally trying to keep the phosphate under 100 ppb. I do see my SWG (by Hayward) is recommending on their website to kept it under 50 ppb.
My initial thought was the author also represented a chemical company, but my concern was that orthophosphates are used to protect the metal piping in some municipal water treatment delivery systems. He goes on to say that these same phosphates are found in swimming pools and can bind to the plates and interfere with the electrolysis in the cell. Thanks for all the replies
- May 3, 2014
- 58,732
- Pool Size
- 6000
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Orthophosphates in drinking water systems are used to control lead. I can find nothing on using it to protect from corrosion.
Actually I think it is zinc orthophosphate, that is used for corrosion control. Several studies on the web about this use
- May 3, 2014
- 58,732
- Pool Size
- 6000
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Sounds right. I did come across some info that it coats the metal to control the leaching of metals such as lead or copper into the water.
That could effect SWCG's. Something to consider.
That could effect SWCG's. Something to consider.
As I mentioned above, there’s so much going on in the article above it’s obsurd. It’s almost a scare article......
Phosphate scale can happen. The kicker is however, it happens so rarely it’s not worth stressing about. A user must have VERY high levels of calcium and phosphate before it could occur. Unless a user is using a metal sequestrant, it’s just not likely gonna happen.
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