Stumped by this Hayward Pump

[Badpump]

Hey Everyone,

I’m new the forum (looks like a great community!) and am hoping to get some help with my pump problem. My pool pump all of the sudden stopped working correctly a few days ago. This pump was purchased in 2018 and has been working perfectly until now.

The pump is a 2 speed unit but I rarely run the slow speed. Regardless, when the pump is turned on
I get a low pitched humming/buzzing sound for about 6 seconds and then it stops/shuts off.

I’ve read quite a bit about various causes of humming on this forum but haven’t seen what my pool pump is doing in any prior threads. The unit will operate normally when I switch on low speed - sucks water into the pump and pushes it through the filter and jets in the pool. It has no abnormal sounds while running on low. The motor spins freely and the centrifugal switch operates as expected

Now when I look under the back cover when I switch it on high - the motor is actually spinning in the opposite direction! It makes that horrible humming sound and then shuts off after a few seconds. If I try to “kick start” the pump by running it on low and then quickly switching to high, the motor will stop spinning in the correct direction and reverse direction and turn off after a few seconds.

I’ve replaced both the start and run capacitor and the pump is still having the same operation.

Any help would be greatly appreciated! I’m slowly watching my pool turn green since the salt cell won’t turn on when it is on low flow setting

 

[ajw22]

Welcome to TFP.

Let’s see what @JamesW says.

While you are waiting to fix your pump get liquid chlorine and stir 5ppm in daily with your pool brush. That will help keep the algae at bay.

 

[JamesW]

That's definitely odd.

Check the voltage and frequency.

 

[JamesW]

 

[willygee]

Hmmm..will be following this post and welcome to TFP.

 

[Badpump]

Thanks for the support so far fellas. That is an excellent idea about the chlorine...I will pick some up before the water gets too bad.

I have some basic knowledge with using a multimeter - where should I connect the leads to take the readings?

Here is a video of what the pump is doing. I have it cycle through Low - High - Low - High. Note the direction the motor is spinning with each cycle.

 

[JamesW]

Turn off the breaker and remove both capacitors and then test resistance from L1 to L2, L1 to A and L2 to A.

 

[Badpump]

L1 to L2 - bounces a bit up and down before settling between 2.1 and 2.5

L1 to A - bounces around but settles around 18

L2 toA - bounces but settled to around 16

These measurements were taken the the capacitors off but the pump still wired into the control box (breaker off). If you need me to disconnect the pump completely and measure again either the pump or wiring side let me know. I really appreciate the help!!!

 

[JamesW]

I think that the readings are ok.

I don't know why it would run backwards.

Check the voltage and frequency of the power on high and low with the wires off the pump.

Check each terminal to ground for continuity/resistance with the breakers off.

You might want to drop the motor off at an electrical motor repair shop for diagnosis.

 

[mas985]

Most likely it is in the starter circuit of the motor. If the capacitor is shorted or open, the motor can potentially start in the wrong direction. Have you checked the capacitor's continuity (i.e. out of circuit)?

 

[Badpump]

Unfortunately my multimeter does not have a frequency measurement setting.

I’m getting 246v between L2 and L1
L2 to A is 67v
L1 to A is 81v

I get no readings when trying L1/L2/A to ground.

I appreciate you helping me solve this issue.

 

[JamesW]

Since you have replaced both capacitors, I really don't know what exactly is the issue.

I have only seen one other case where the motor ran backwards, but I don't know why it was going backwards.

Maybe run the motor to a motor shop for diagnosis.

 

[JamesW]

With the power off, remove both capacitors, connect the two wires that go to the top run capacitor and then check the resistance from L1 to L2.

If your meter can test capacitance, check the capacitance of the run capacitor to see if it matches the label.

Did the new run capacitor have the same specs as the old capacitor?

 

[mas985]

Also check the centrifugal switch. If the contacts are corroded, they can prevent the start capacitor from engaging.

 

[JamesW]

Also check the centrifugal switch. If the contacts are corroded, they can prevent the start capacitor from engaging.

I think that the start switch and start capacitor only go to the low speed?

I think that the top run capacitor only goes to the high speed?

 

[mas985]

Capacitors are always in the starting winding. Never the main windings (low or high speed).

Since this is a CSCR two speed motor, the run capacitor is always used in the high speed mode starting winding for efficiency reason which means the motor must always start in high speed mode so the starting capacitor is also used in high speed mode configuration. When the mode switch is in low speed, the motor still starts in high speed mode but immediately switches to low speed when the governor moves the switch up (i.e. when the motor reaches a certain speed).

Because of the wiring differences between low and high speed modes, there could potentially be a problem with energizing the starting winding when in high speed mode vs low speed mode.

Forgot to mention that if the capacitors were changed, there might have been a mistake in wiring which is making the motor run backwards. Are you sure the motor was running backwards before the capacitors were changed or was there just a hum before the capacitors were changed?

 

[Badpump]

Thanks again guys for helping hash this out.

With both capacitors off, I’m getting resistance of 2.5. With just the top capacitor on I’m getting the same reading.
With the centrifugal switch disconnected, I get the same reverse slow operation of the pump on high. The low setting now makes the pump have a soft hum but there is no movement of the shaft. I cleaned the contacts in the copper plates that make the “V” of the switch and after installing again the pump is still doing the same thing where it is reverse on high and works normally on low.

I can’t say whether the pump was going in reverse when it first broke since I didn’t take the back cover off

Here are the originals and the replacements. The black one is a bit bigger than the original but it was available local to test if it was the problem.

 

[JamesW]

Does the new capacitor have 3 terminals?

 

[Badpump]

I’m thinking my silver capacitor replacement is defective? Unless I am using my multimeter wrong. Here is what the meter is showing.

 

[Badpump]

Here is the pump running on low and the switching on the high at the same time. After the clicking, I turn off the low and quickly turn on the high setting.