Stumped by SWG

[Homebrewale]

Correct. It's a choice, not a need.

But the overwhelming majority of folks who've tried 24/7 never went back.

You'll never wonder if you skimmed or filtered enough and FC will be topped off around the clock.

You're going to run half the day anyway. In the spring and fall the SWG needs less runtime but the skimming and filtering needs more. Adding 12 hours at 100something watts at low rpms may cost you $10 or $15 a month and you won't even know on the electric bill.

Let's do a calculation. Let's assume the electricity usage is higher at 200W per hour. 12 hours extra each day is 2400 Wh. If there are 30 days in a month, that is 72,000 Wh or 72 kWh. I don't know what the OP electricity cost is but mine is $0.11661 per kWh. It would cost me $8.40 per month extra to run 24 hours per day. What is the cost of the CalHypo the OP is using? What would be the cost of chlorine to do a SLAM if the pool gets algae? Running 24 hours per day is the cheaper option, even cheaper than your napkin estimate.

 

[Turniptruck]

.......Running 24 hours per day is the cheaper option, even cheaper than your napkin estimate.

As the OP, I have no problem with going to 24 hour run time, especially if it's cheaper.

I just want to figure out why the SWG is underperforming so substantially.

 

[Newdude]

I just want to figure out why the SWG is underperforming so substantially.

Without data, we're all just guessing. The overnight gain test will help us see what the unit is producing.

Running 24 hours per day is the cheaper option, even cheaper than your napkin estimate.

I aim conservatively high so nobody comes back that it cost them an extra $7. I'd rather be high than low and even high is peanuts.

Mine draws 110W/1200rpm for good skimming. For only SWG (if I had a solar cover) I could run 35W/700rpm But we like the look of more water movement so I splurge all the way to 220W. It's still peanuts.

 

[Turniptruck]

Without data, we're all just guessing. The overnight gain test will help us see what the unit is producing.

I'm on it!

 

[Turniptruck]

I did the overnight chlorine generation test last night. No signifigant amount of chlorine was made with a 60K gallon cell on 100% for 12.5 hours. 4.2 PPM in the evening and 4.2 PPM in the morning.

I had a logging meter connected and can see that the cell was being fed 25.3 volts and was drawing about 5.2 amps all night without interruption.

Can a cell be defective in a way that it would show proper electrical characteristics but not create chlorine?

 

[Lake Placid]

I know almost nothing about excel SWG’s but is it possible they overstate their production like other “value” brand manufacturers to compete in the market and you’re left with a system that will never perform to your expectations or their claims? It seems either the cell is producing in a lackluster way or something is using your chlorine the cell produces.

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

Can a cell be defective in a way that it would show proper electrical characteristics but not create chlorine?

I did the overnight chlorine generation test last night. No signifigant amount of chlorine was made with a 60K gallon cell on 100% for 12.5 hours. 4.2 PPM in the evening and 4.2 PPM in the morning.

I had a logging meter connected and can see that the cell was being fed 25.3 volts and was drawing about 5.2 amps all night without interruption.

I saw @JamesW around. Maybe he can chime in...

 

[Homebrewale]

I would run another OCLT to see if there isn't algae forming since your last test 8 days ago. You were adding Cal-Hypo just to maintain levels. Also I can't tell if you were running your pump 24/7 during the testing.

 

[Turniptruck]

I know almost nothing about excel SWG’s but is it possible they overstate their production like other “value” brand manufacturers to compete in the market and you’re left with a system that will never perform to your expectations or their claims? It seems either the cell is producing in a lackluster way or something is using your chlorine the cell produces.

While it's possible it could underperform, no production seems unlikely.

There were .2 PPM chloramides in the morning. I doubt the chlorine was used overnight.

 

[Turniptruck]

I would run another OCLT to see if there isn't algae forming since your last test 8 days ago. You were adding Cal-Hypo just to maintain levels. Also I can't tell if you were running your pump 24/7 during the testing.

There was .2 PPM chloramides in the morning. I don't think there is anything siginificant using the chlorine.

 

[Lake Placid]

While it's possible it could underperform, no production seems unlikely.

There were .2 PPM chloramides in the morning. I doubt the chlorine was used overnight.

Fall back to a standard OCLT. Then you can verify if it’s a production or consumption issue.

 

[Newdude]

+3 for a new (and proper) OCLT. Plenty could have started brewing in a week.

Cells are expensive. OCLTs are free.

 

[JamesW]

Could a faulty cell still draw normal current but produce insufficient chlorine?

Is it possible for a salt cell to have normal electrical parameters but underproduce chlorine?

Basically, no.

If the voltage and current are correct, the cell is making chlorine.

At those numbers, the production will be about 1.0 to 1.25 lb chlorine gas per day.

That is about equal to a Hayward T-9 or a Jandy AquaPure 1400 cell.

 

[JamesW]

The salt system is an Excel 60K gallon rated system.

A 60K cell will use closer to about 7.5 amps or higher.

Either the cell is underproducing or the production claims are exaggerated.

I am running the chlorine generator at 100% for 12 hours per day.

The voltage supplied to and the current drawn by the cell indicate normal operation at approx 25 volts and 5.3 amps.

For your pool, you should be good at about 70% for 12 hours.

 

[Turniptruck]

+3 for a new (and proper) OCLT. Plenty could have started brewing in a week.

Will be done tonight!

 

[JamesW]

Here is the approximate current for different sized cells at about 82 to 84 degrees and 3,200 to 3,400 ppm salt.

Cell size...........amps
60k.................7.5 to 8.0
40k............... 6.5 to 7.5
25k................5.5 to 6.8
20k...............3.5 to 4.5

 

[JamesW]

No signifigant amount of chlorine was made with a 60K gallon cell on 100% for 12.5 hours. 4.2 PPM in the evening and 4.2 PPM in the morning.

I had a logging meter connected and can see that the cell was being fed 25.3 volts and was drawing about 5.2 amps all night without interruption.

That would make about 10 oz chlorine gas, which should result in about 2.7 ppm FC.

5.2 amps is low for a 60 k rated cell.

 

[JamesW]

Production should be proportional to cell plate surface area assuming the same voltage, water temperature and salinity.

Can you see and measure the cell plate dimensions?

Can you count the number of plates?

Aquarite Cell Plates.​

Here are the dimensions of the Hayward plates.

T-15 has 13 Titanium Plates, 150 x 63mm. Produces 1.47 lbs/day.

T-9 has 13 Titanium Plates, 101 x 63mm. Produces 0.98 lbs/day.

T-5 has 7 Titanium plate, 150 x 63mm. Produces 0.735 lbs/day.

T-3 has 7 Titanium Plates, 101 x 63mm. Produces 0.53 lbs/day.

 

[mknauss]

The 60K gallon cell is a BLT15H-2W

Do a search with that model number. It comes up stating it is an equivalent to a T15.

So the 60K is grossly overstated as it does not even get to the equivalency of the 40K T15.

 

[Turniptruck]

OCLT result was no more than .2 PPM loss in 12 hours. The only difference was a shade of pink in the last drop of the test.

I'm going to 24 hour pump and SWG operation to see what I get.