Still in learning curve of SWG

[Luric]

WE converted to salt about a month ago and are still having trouble balancing our water. Our salt output had been 3200 then 2850 now 2600. Is that normal to drop that much in a month? We haven't added any additional salt yet, and while the pump runs everyday, we haven't used anything but the hot tub a handful of times. Is adding salt a weekly thing?

We're also having trouble keeping the chlorine up. The pool guys left us at a salt level of 3200, 80% output and FC of 5. Two days later the chlorine was at 12, so we turned it down over the next few days. Seemed to hold at FC of 4 when the output was 30%. Then the salt level continued to drop and the FC went down to 1.5 over about 3-4 days. CYA is at 40, so is that the only culprit? OUr pump is running on high for 6 hrs and low for 5. Should I be adjusting either of those also? Pool temp is still in the upper 60s which I've heard ca affect salt readings?

Lastly, am I doing damage with an output level that low for a few days?

FC: 2
CC: .5
pH: 7.6
TA: 80
CH: 400
CYA: 40

 

[ckk81]

WE converted to salt about a month ago and are still having trouble balancing our water. Our salt output had been 3200 then 2850 now 2600. Is that normal to drop that much in a month? We haven't added any additional salt yet, and while the pump runs everyday, we haven't used anything but the hot tub a handful of times. Is adding salt a weekly thing?

We're also having trouble keeping the chlorine up. The pool guys left us at a salt level of 3200, 80% output and FC of 5. Two days later the chlorine was at 12, so we turned it down over the next few days. Seemed to hold at FC of 4 when the output was 30%. Then the salt level continued to drop and the FC went down to 1.5 over about 3-4 days. CYA is at 40, so is that the only culprit? OUr pump is running on high for 6 hrs and low for 5. Should I be adjusting either of those also? Pool temp is still in the upper 60s which I've heard ca affect salt readings?

Lastly, am I doing damage with an output level that low for a few days?

FC: 2
CC: .5
pH: 7.6
TA: 80
CH: 400
CYA: 40

Salt doesn't go anywhere unless you're losing water. How are you measuring the salt level? I recommend the Taylor K-1766 instead of relying on the SWG itself.
Your CYA also needs to be increased. Pool School - Water Balance for SWGs

 

[Jimrahbe]

L,

Salt cells have no brains.. they don't know anything but what you tell them. You are their brain, you have to routinely test the water and then tell the cell to increase or decrease their output.

You really need to try and keep your FC around 5 or 6.

Increasing your CYA to 80 will keep the sun from using so much of your chlorine.

You control the SWCG's production by doing a combination of two things.. You can adjust the % of SWCG output and/or adjust how long the pump runs with the cell working.. Running your cell at 100% output for 1 hour produces the same amount of chlorine as running your cell at 10% output for 10 hours.

What size salt cell do you have? We recommend a cell that is 2 x the volume of your pool, so in your case a 60K unit. My "guess" is that you have something smaller and will be forced to run at a higher output and longer time periods as the weather warms up..

As for the salt level the SWCG reports has a tolerance of about +/- 500 ppm and cold water makes it even worse for some SWCGs. You will not hurt anything running with a low salt level, if it gets too low the SWCG will just shut off.

As has been said it is wise to have a secondary way to confirm what the actual salt level is besides the SWCG itself..

Thanks for posting,

Jim R.

 

[Luric]

It's a thousand degrees & sunny today, so I forgot that we actually just came off a several day bout of super heavy rain over the weekend. Is it reasonable to think the salt has just been diluted? I've been meaning to get my CYA up, just keep forgetting to stop at the store.

Salt doesn't go anywhere unless you're losing water. How are you measuring the salt level? I recommend the Taylor K-1766 instead of relying on the SWG itself.
Your CYA also needs to be increased. Pool School - Water Balance for SWGs

 

[ckk81]

It's a thousand degrees & sunny today, so I forgot that we actually just came off a several day bout of super heavy rain over the weekend. Is it reasonable to think the salt has just been diluted? .

Re: Dilution- You'd need a tremendous amount of water exchanged to experience a salt level change like you've stated.

The sun and low level of CYA are killing your FC level.

 

[Luric]

L,

Salt cells have no brains.. they don't know anything but what you tell them. You are their brain, you have to routinely test the water and then tell the cell to increase or decrease their output.

You really need to try and keep your FC around 5 or 6.

Increasing your CYA to 80 will keep the sun from using so much of your chlorine.

You control the SWCG's production by doing a combination of two things.. You can adjust the % of SWCG output and/or adjust how long the pump runs with the cell working.. Running your cell at 100% output for 1 hour produces the same amount of chlorine as running your cell at 10% output for 10 hours.

What size salt cell do you have? We recommend a cell that is 2 x the volume of your pool, so in your case a 60K unit. My "guess" is that you have something smaller and will be forced to run at a higher output and longer time periods as the weather warms up..

As for the salt level the SWCG reports has a tolerance of about +/- 500 ppm and cold water makes it even worse for some SWCGs. You will not hurt anything running with a low salt level, if it gets too low the SWCG will just shut off.

As has been said it is wise to have a secondary way to confirm what the actual salt level is besides the SWCG itself..

Thanks for posting,

Jim R.

We have the Pentair Intelichlor 60 since I'd read that we should oversize. I have been testing every 2-3 days. When we ran the % high, we had FC of 12 so slowly ratcheted down till we found a consistent FC of 4 running at 30%. Until that dropped to 1 and salt level dropped to 2600. I have been fiddling with the filter run times & speeds. I'm getting the impression that that combined with our low CYA is giving us the most trouble. When we got things to "work" we were running on H (~2hp) for 8 hrs and L (~1hp) for another 6. That seemed crazy to me since before converting everything we ran our non-VS 2.5hp pump for 8 hrs total with LC and everything was great. But then I guess those schedules are actually fairly comparable. I had changed it to H for 4 hrs & L for 6 when we experienced the sudden chlorine drop. I guess I'll go back to 8 & 6!

Today I'll haul my 1, 3 & 5 yr old to the store (<--I mention their ages to demonstrate my commitment since taking a 1, 3 & 5 yr old anywhere is pretty unpleasant!) to buy stabilizer, salt level tester, and a few bags of salt. I'll backwash tonight, test, and add all my new stuff tomorrow. Should I give the salt & FC about 24 for an accurate reading? I know CYA can take up to a week and that I should start slow with amount (I do a sock in my skimmer).

Thanks for everyone's input!

 

[Jimrahbe]

We have the Pentair Intelichlor 60 since I'd read that we should oversize. I have been testing every 2-3 days. When we ran the % high, we had FC of 12 so slowly ratcheted down till we found a consistent FC of 4 running at 30%. Until that dropped to 1 and salt level dropped to 2600. I have been fiddling with the filter run times & speeds. I'm getting the impression that that combined with our low CYA is giving us the most trouble. When we got things to "work" we were running on H (~2hp) for 8 hrs and L (~1hp) for another 6. That seemed crazy to me since before converting everything we ran our non-VS 2.5hp pump for 8 hrs total with LC and everything was great. But then I guess those schedules are actually fairly comparable. I had changed it to H for 4 hrs & L for 6 when we experienced the sudden chlorine drop. I guess I'll go back to 8 & 6!

Today I'll haul my 1, 3 & 5 yr old to the store (<--I mention their ages to demonstrate my commitment since taking a 1, 3 & 5 yr old anywhere is pretty unpleasant!) to buy stabilizer, salt level tester, and a few bags of salt. I'll backwash tonight, test, and add all my new stuff tomorrow. Should I give the salt & FC about 24 for an accurate reading? I know CYA can take up to a week and that I should start slow with amount (I do a sock in my skimmer).

Thanks for everyone's input!

L,

Sounds like a plan to me... But, just so you know.. the SWCG makes the same amount of chlorine on with the pump on low as it does on high. So I would only run on high for other reasons than generating chlorine. If low keeps your pool clean, then there is no reason to run high, unless you just want too. But now I am puzzled... your signature says you have an IntelliFlo variable speed pump. If so, you can run that pump very slowly as long as you want for very little electrical cost. What pump are you saying is High (2 HP) and Low (1 HP). If this is the IntelliFlo, then please tell me the RPM when running High and Low.

I'm very glad you have the IC60... yes, wait for 24 hours before worrying about the salt reading.

I remember children, small things that resemble humans.. takes longer to get them ready to go somewhere than the trip itself...

Thanks Jim R.

 

[Luric]

I'm not sure the exact RMPs, I just know the guy who installed our Intelliflo said it was the equivalent of about 2hp on H and between 1-1.5 on L (so we could compare it to our former pump which was 2.5hp). When I use our ScreenLogic I only have the option of running the pump on high or low.

Speaking of water being clear, that's actually another concern I have because our water is still covered in debris even running the pump over 12 hrs and having a brand new DE filter. I know he changed something with the flow, diverting suction from the skimmer in the deep end to the main drain instead (we have another skimmer in the shallow end). This was taken after the pump was running on high for 6 hrs. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMjTbDTPXAA I skimmed all the leaves out myself as they weren't really doing anything. We've never opened the pool this early, so maybe this is typical spring debris, but I'm a little disappointed with our equipment across the board. Do you have a recommendation for how long I should try running the pump and at which speeds for either chlorine production or to clean up the water? We never had anything like this with our old sand filter even though literally every pool person who saw it said it was too small for our pool and way too small for our pump!

L,

Sounds like a plan to me... But, just so you know.. the SWCG makes the same amount of chlorine on with the pump on low as it does on high. So I would only run on high for other reasons than generating chlorine. If low keeps your pool clean, then there is no reason to run high, unless you just want too. But now I am puzzled... your signature says you have an IntelliFlo variable speed pump. If so, you can run that pump very slowly as long as you want for very little electrical cost. What pump are you saying is High (2 HP) and Low (1 HP). If this is the IntelliFlo, then please tell me the RPM when running High and Low.

I'm very glad you have the IC60... yes, wait for 24 hours before worrying about the salt reading.

I remember children, small things that resemble humans.. takes longer to get them ready to go somewhere than the trip itself...

Thanks Jim R.

 

[Jimrahbe]

L,

If you have ScreenLogic, you can select "IntelliFlo Pool" tab and it will tell you the pump's RPM. (This works on the PC but may not be there on a phone app) It will also let you move the speed up and down to whatever you want.
Each pool is a little different, but I run mine at 1,200 RPM most of the time. This is as slow as I can run and still generate chlorine.

It sure looks like your pool is green to me??? I can't tell for sure if it just the glare or what, but it sure looks like you have algae!!! Is this the normal color for your pool?

If you have algae, all the filters and pumps in the world will not fix the problem... Algae will reproduce faster than you can filter it out.. You have to kill the algae first, once it is dead you can then filter it out of the pool.

Your TF-100 tests do not indicate algae, so maybe it is just the video.

DE filters are very good at their job... the problem is that they can plug up very quickly when you have a chemistry issue... When you get a chance please look at the pressure gauge on top of the filter and tell me what it reads..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Luric]

The water is actually clear. If you look closely you can see the drain covers etc on the bottom in the last few seconds of the video, and I can easily make out the color variation in the pebbletec - there's just a gross coating of pollen & gunk on top. There were a bunch of leaves as well, but I got rid of them myself. FYI we are and have been having high pollen alerts the last few days. It's a black bottom/lake effect pool surrounded by tons of trees, so it does tend to look pretty dark & reflect all the vegetation around. I truly don't think it's an algae problem, at least yet. I guess it can't hurt to do the O/N test tonight.

When running on high the pressure gauge is just about at 30 which is a big jump from approaching 20 where it was over the weekend. The pump is currently running on low and the filter is barely off the 0. Is it supposed to be different depending on the speed?

I actually didn't realize I could use SL on my PC! Just configured and my RMPs are 2500 on high and 1150 on low (3000 for the spa). How would you recommend tweaking?

Sidenote: I picked up salt strips today, and it's giving me a level of 2790 while my SWG is saying 2650. Was planning to add 1-2 bags after backwashing. Can I use this salt, the only 1 at either WAlmart, Lowe's or HD near me: Morton® Pure and Natural™ - Morton Salt

 

[Jimrahbe]

L,

Sounds like it was just how it looked in the video... Based on what you said and the fact that your CC is only .5 I think we can forget algae for now..

That salt will work fine.. Two bags of salt will increase your salt level by 320 ppm, so that will get you to about 3,000 so the SWCG should be happy.

Your speeds seem ok to me, just keep in mind that you can change or add new ones if you ever wanted..

Before you add the salt you may want to look in ScreenLogic under "Delays and Alerts".. You should see the alert that says "Low Salt" .. this means the SWCG thinks the salt is below 2800 but above 2600, but the SWCG will still work.. Once the SWCG thinks the salt level is below 2600 you will see "Very Low Salt" and the SWCG will no longer work.

I am surprised that your SWCG will work at 1150 RPM because you have a heater. So this would be a good time to double check that it is working. Set the pump on low (1150) and confirm that the "Delays and Alerts" page does not show a low flow alert and that the flow light on the SWCG is green. (This might take 30 minutes or so to update) My guess is that with low RPM and dirty filter you will have a no flow fault.. If not, it is good experience to understand how this works..

When running at a low RPM, like 1,000 or so, your filter pressure will be very low. But this is a good thing. In my case at 1,200 my filter PSI is only 2 lbs. When I run at 2,500 the PSI is only 10 lbs.

I agree with you that it would make sense to backwash the filter soon. I assume you have done this before and have new DE to add???

Let's see if we can get your SWCG back to producing enough chlorine for you pool...

Keep us updated,

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Luric]

Every last bit of our equipment is new this year, so this was our first time backwashing a DE filter. I did have DE on hand from adding a little to our old sand filter last year, so the whole process was easy enough (which is easy to say because me husband actually did it while I put the kids to bed!)

I'm now to the point of adding salt, but I can't figure out how to turn the Intellichlor off? THere doesn't appear to be an ON/OFF switch. It's on the same circuit as our pump which I know I'll need to run, so I can't just flip that. Is it enough to just turn the output down to 0%? I was fiddling around with the control panel in service mode and saw an option for "disable" - is that what I'm looking for? I tried that then pressed the manual button for the filter, but the filter never turned on even though the light turned red above it. Is there a delay?

 

[Jimrahbe]

L,

Just use ScreenLogic and turn the percent down to zero.

The Service mode is like a "manual" mode. Basically there for the "Pool Service guy" to use when working on the pool without having to bother the homeowner.

For example.. if you were wanting to open the pump lid and clean out the basket, you really don't want the pump coming on automatically... So putting the system in the "Service Mode" prevents any kind automatic operation.

Sometimes there is a little delay when various buttons are pushed.

You should note the filter pressure and pump speed now that it has been backwashed, this way you will know to clean again when the pressure goes up 25%..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Luric]

Added 3 bags of salt (pool math called for 115 lbs to get to 3200, so I technically added 5 more lbs), ran pump for 24 hrs, just checked salt via strips, and got between 3280 & 3570. The whole time the percent was 0, the screenlogic salt level read 9900, but I assumed that was just a fluke because it was basically turned off. I just turned the percent back up to 40, and it still says 9900. Did I break something?? Before I added the 3 bags of salt the Intellichlor said 2600, the pool store told me 2400, and my strips told me 2790. What happened???


EDIT TO ADD: Just checked equipment itself, and everything on the intellichlor was green/good. Checked SL again, and now it's ready 3050, so I guess I was just a little too fast to the draw. Figured it's worthwhile to leave my original concern incase someone else has the same question in the future.

 

[Jimrahbe]

L,

The Intellichlor only updates the salt content every 12 hours.. Nothing you did should have hurt anything... I'm not sure what is going on.

If this were my system, I'd reboot the Automation panel, by turning off the circuit breakers and then turning them back on again. This will cause the SWCG to reboot also..

After a few minutes look at the cell and see what light are on and what color they are.

If still at 9900, I'd reboot ScreenLogic.. x out and get back in...

Thanks,

Jim R.