To calculate total dynamic head you need to know equivalent feet of pipe and the flow rate. It takes some explaining. If you want to figure this out you should start with the Hydraulics 101 post by mas985.
Stever's Pool Build
- Thread starter stever
- Start date
Sorry guys. You are all much more experienced, but I don't understand if the spa will heat quickly enough from dead cold with the low flow you will have through the heater when you running the system as you propose. Will it? I can heat my spa with my pump running at a lower flow rate or with part of the water bypassed around the heater, but it is slow and I don't like to waste the natural gas with the extra heater run time. Maybe my system is misconfigured somehow, but this has been my experience.
Also, I like to "soak" in my spa without the jets and I think that is what this system would not give you, unless you can somehow rig the spa mode to run through the spa return unless you press a "spa jet" button that would rev the pump and switch the flow over to the spa jets. Am I missing something? Are you locked into the one pump setup now? I just know that in my pool iterations, I would have loved to have a community such as this to run things by.
Also, I like to "soak" in my spa without the jets and I think that is what this system would not give you, unless you can somehow rig the spa mode to run through the spa return unless you press a "spa jet" button that would rev the pump and switch the flow over to the spa jets. Am I missing something? Are you locked into the one pump setup now? I just know that in my pool iterations, I would have loved to have a community such as this to run things by.
Heaters are more efficient at higher flow rates, but the effect is not dramatic as long as you are meeting their minimum flow rate. At 40 GPM the heater should be getting better than 90% of what it might ideally get. Also, this system will be adjustable, so the amount of flow going through the heater can be adjusted to a higher number to see if that makes any difference.
Likewise, he is going to have a return separate from the jets so there is always the option to program the automation system for a low flow, return only, spa heater mode (which is also a great pre-heat mode).
Likewise, he is going to have a return separate from the jets so there is always the option to program the automation system for a low flow, return only, spa heater mode (which is also a great pre-heat mode).
Hmmm... You are right. I like the idea of the pre-heat non-jey spa heat mode. I just need to figure out how to do it. Now the only way to get heat to the spa is to have the automatic valve switch to the pool mode and then the manual valve determines how much goes to the spa for spillover. If i set the 'spa' mode than the suction is from the spa (good) and qall return is to the spa( good) but the pump is full-speed. If I slow down the pump, the filter/heater circuit will not get enough flow.
I can solve this by another automatic valve at the pool/spa return.... but I was trying not toget too crazy (too late??). Also still need to keep valves under a certain number (don't have in front of me now) for the Intellitouch 7 (yes, I could upgrade....). Speaking of which, if two valves are always triggered together (like spa suction and spa return) will they be controlled together from one pair of wires and one valve position on the automation system?
Thanks,
Steve
I can solve this by another automatic valve at the pool/spa return.... but I was trying not toget too crazy (too late??). Also still need to keep valves under a certain number (don't have in front of me now) for the Intellitouch 7 (yes, I could upgrade....). Speaking of which, if two valves are always triggered together (like spa suction and spa return) will they be controlled together from one pair of wires and one valve position on the automation system?
Thanks,
Steve
- May 3, 2007
- 18,088
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
Stever,
As Jason pointed out, the 100 ft of extra pipe was simply a way for me to say that you had margin in your system.
Based on the numbers you gave me, your total head loss is about 59 feet of head @ 135 GPM. However, you could go up to 67 feet of head @ 120 GPM and still have enough flow.
Also, the check valve at the filter is usually a good idea with solar so the panels don't drain backwards through the filter.
As Jason pointed out, the 100 ft of extra pipe was simply a way for me to say that you had margin in your system.
Based on the numbers you gave me, your total head loss is about 59 feet of head @ 135 GPM. However, you could go up to 67 feet of head @ 120 GPM and still have enough flow.
Also, the check valve at the filter is usually a good idea with solar so the panels don't drain backwards through the filter.
Well - we don't make decisions very quickly.... but have decided - against the recomendations of many people - to use the ledge-stone/stackstone at the raised bond beam. We hope to minimize the maintenance by using a patch of the blue/green tile under the spillway. Does this look terrible? (see below)
I saw free google-sketchup program and thought I'd try it to help me visualize our future pool. I didn't make it dimentionally accurate, but close enough to help me see it in its final finishes. Here's a few pictures.
as you can see I don't know how to model stairs... among other things.
Not perfect, but not too bad for a first try.
Thought you all would like to see that Sketchup can model pools also (though it's not easy). What's cool is the ability to chasnge the angle of the sun and see how shadows will be cast intot he pool and how much sun it will get based on the time of day and the month of the year.
I saw free google-sketchup program and thought I'd try it to help me visualize our future pool. I didn't make it dimentionally accurate, but close enough to help me see it in its final finishes. Here's a few pictures.
as you can see I don't know how to model stairs... among other things.
Not perfect, but not too bad for a first try.
Thought you all would like to see that Sketchup can model pools also (though it's not easy). What's cool is the ability to chasnge the angle of the sun and see how shadows will be cast intot he pool and how much sun it will get based on the time of day and the month of the year.
Pretty nice design... I would probably soften up that pointy place, as it kind of looks like cleavage! 
I like the tile on/below the spillway! I might try to make the color of the spillway a little less bright... to blend more with the retaining wall material.
For the first try, very good overall!!
I like the tile on/below the spillway! I might try to make the color of the spillway a little less bright... to blend more with the retaining wall material.
For the first try, very good overall!!
The Mermaid Queen said:Pretty nice design... I would probably soften up that pointy place, as it kind of looks like cleavage!
:lol: That's exactly what I was thinking. I doubt it would look like that to people once completed but as a sketch it sure does. Like TMQ suggested, I would soften that angle, and maybe even make it a couple of smaller curves to give it more of a free form look.
The Mermaid Queen said:Pretty nice design... I would probably soften up that pointy place, as it kind of looks like cleavage!
I like the tile on/below the spillway! I might try to make the color of the spillway a little less bright... to blend more with the retaining wall material.
For the first try, very good overall!!
Thanks for the advice - The point looks a bit better in real life (as that portion of the build is done, it's too late anyway
). As for the tile..... We are going with a blue-green at the water line. I understand your concern about the bright color behind the spillway... I was just concerned with introducing too many material types/colors. I thought it might excentuate the spill with a blue tile behind.... but it might look too bright. Below is the tile chosen. I was not able to find a picture on the web that looked like it. The larger picture is a close-up of the texture, but believe me -- we did not pick purple tile!
The other picture makes it look too blue/grey, but it's pretty close. This tile does come in a dorado color that would match the stackstone (below). But I don't want it to look like I was trying to make the tile dissapear....as it won't. We clearly don't pick pool materials for a living, as this is shaping up to be a very difficult decision. We'll use a grey/neutral grout, as we don't want to excentuate the grout lines with white (as looks good with other tiles).Pool tile: Tico Taco Blue. This picture does not show any of the green and gold tones:
This also is Tico Taco Blue -- trust me - it's not purple -- picture just to show texture/glaze:
This is the stack-stone. They will order it in individual pieces instead of panels due to the curve. Oddly no price increase for this -- must have been marked up pretty high to start with.
SeanB said:The Mermaid Queen said:Pretty nice design... I would probably soften up that pointy place, as it kind of looks like cleavage!
:lol: That's exactly what I was thinking. I doubt it would look like that to people once completed but as a sketch it sure does. Like TMQ suggested, I would soften that angle, and maybe even make it a couple of smaller curves to give it more of a free form look.
Here's a picture of how it is. The shallow end just offsets a bit to one side. We like the design, but I hope the automatic suction cleaner (Pool Shark) will get arount the corner. It is rounded below the water line. We were trying to not make the pool a traditional kidney-like shape. I am committed at this point -- I'll make sure to keep the picture coming as it finishes and let you know how it looks in it's final form.
IKWYM about kidney shaped pools... I like a 'sort of' kidney shape, but different, like what you did.
The tile looks nice... much more blue than in the sketch, and the stacked stone has some gray-ish pieces that blend well with the blue! (heck, I sorta even like the purple!! but who can trust the judgment of a goofy mermaid??
) On the sketch, on my computer, the tile was GREEN and the stacked stone was a reddish pinkish brown.
I love the multi-levels you will have when complete!
The tile looks nice... much more blue than in the sketch, and the stacked stone has some gray-ish pieces that blend well with the blue! (heck, I sorta even like the purple!! but who can trust the judgment of a goofy mermaid??
) On the sketch, on my computer, the tile was GREEN and the stacked stone was a reddish pinkish brown. I love the multi-levels you will have when complete!
The Mermaid Queen said:IKWYM about kidney shaped pools... I like a 'sort of' kidney shape, but different, like what you did.
The tile looks nice... much more blue than in the sketch, and the stacked stone has some gray-ish pieces that blend well with the blue! (heck, I sorta even like the purple!! but who can trust the judgment of a goofy mermaid??
I love the multi-levels you will have when complete!
For yor viewing pleasure -- a color-adjusted picture...
Also, the deck will be a textured concrete with a tan pigment in the mix (I don't like the surface colors, as they wear off over time):
- Aug 16, 2007
- 300
I think it looks beautiful so far. I like your idea of using the colored tile on the spa, but if I may offer another angle...I'm not a professional but you may want to consider using the tile on the whole face of the spa rather than segmenting it to just under the spillway. If you are looking to just accentuate the spillway it will look very nice, but to highlight the design of the curved spa, it may look better overall to have it be one surface material.
Definately agree on a grout color that will blend in. If you haven't already planned this for your stacked stone, applying a sealer will make any deposits that accumulate much easier to clean.
Definately agree on a grout color that will blend in. If you haven't already planned this for your stacked stone, applying a sealer will make any deposits that accumulate much easier to clean.
Vegasmom said:
Thanks! The tile on the whole face has some definite advantages: cheaper, more uniform look, easier to clean deposits. It's just that with 24+ inches of it over the long side of the pool I'm afraid it'll be blue-tile overload. I am concerned about deposits, though and should definitely seal it. How often does the sealer have to be applied? How much easier is it to clean? Can the next sealer coat be applied to a full pool?
Anybody out there have stone like this just above the water line? I'd love some 1st have info on how quickly it gets calcium buildup. I know this varries by area.... but it'd still be nice to know.
Thanks!
Vegasmom said:
The 3d model isn't quite accurate... I have an inside corner to the left of the spa, but to the right of the spa the spa wall just blends into pool wall without the littlest bit of a corner. I love the idea of tile for the entire spa, but don't know how to end the tile at the right.... the spa just becomes the pool.... I thought of tile for the spa and the pool wall to the right of the spa -- but it was too unbalanced a look.
- Aug 16, 2007
- 300
I see what you're saying about the spa corner. A good tile guy can blend/float it and it will give the perception that there is a natural break there. It comes down to personal preference really on which look you're going for.
As for sealing the tile under the spillway, it's probably a ceramic or porcelain and won't accept a sealer. The grout will, though and you'll definately want a few coats on there. The stacked stone above the waterline should have minimal buildup because it's not directly exposed other than splash-out. Sealing it will give some protection from that and also make it easier to clean/hose off. I am using a stacked sandstone above my waterline and all of it has been sealed. We don't have any water in ours yet so I can't tell you much more.
As far as how often it needs to be sealed depends on a number of factors. There are inexpensive sealers on the shelves that IMO aren't worth the material they are packaged in. You'll just waste your time and money. Buy a better quality sealer and you'll get a better result. Anything above the waterline that needs resealing I imagine could be done while floating on a raft. 8) Just don't tip over and dump the sealer in the water! No cocktails before you attempt this, LOL....
As for sealing the tile under the spillway, it's probably a ceramic or porcelain and won't accept a sealer. The grout will, though and you'll definately want a few coats on there. The stacked stone above the waterline should have minimal buildup because it's not directly exposed other than splash-out. Sealing it will give some protection from that and also make it easier to clean/hose off. I am using a stacked sandstone above my waterline and all of it has been sealed. We don't have any water in ours yet so I can't tell you much more.
As far as how often it needs to be sealed depends on a number of factors. There are inexpensive sealers on the shelves that IMO aren't worth the material they are packaged in. You'll just waste your time and money. Buy a better quality sealer and you'll get a better result. Anything above the waterline that needs resealing I imagine could be done while floating on a raft. 8) Just don't tip over and dump the sealer in the water! No cocktails before you attempt this, LOL....
Vegasmom said:
I am hoping the same thing -- that the stone that gets wet from waves/cannonballs will not stain much compared to areas that are near the spillway. Like you I'm using real srone instead of concrete so with acid or blasting the color nexer goes away.
My construction foreman was on vacation last week so everything came to a stop. Gave us a week to make decisions on the finishes -- equipment should go in this week. Coping and tile/stone next week.
I met with a fence and deck contractor last week. Should have the numbers shortly. All these contractors are really needing work badly. I wouldn't blame them for keeping their prices up (they have to make a living) but they should be able to get right on the job and spend time to make it look right. San Diego's construciton economy is grinding to a halt - -I feel bad for some of the sub-contractors -- they are really being squeezed.
Always researching, I am second guessing the filter picked out...
Presently I have spec'd a Pentair FNS-P 60 SF DE filter. The 'Plus' makes it fiberglass instead of SS for salt systems (so I hear). But in looking at the Pentair website, looks like I have the option of the Quad filters as well.
- Can these be used with a salt pool?
- Are they good filters (or at least better than the FNS-P)?
For a couple hundred $$ more, I can upsize to a 100 SF Quad filter, thus extending the time between cleanings/backwashes and lowering the filter pressure and allowing the pump to work a little easier (more efficiently).
Am I on the right track?
Thanks,
Steve
Presently I have spec'd a Pentair FNS-P 60 SF DE filter. The 'Plus' makes it fiberglass instead of SS for salt systems (so I hear). But in looking at the Pentair website, looks like I have the option of the Quad filters as well.
- Can these be used with a salt pool?
- Are they good filters (or at least better than the FNS-P)?
For a couple hundred $$ more, I can upsize to a 100 SF Quad filter, thus extending the time between cleanings/backwashes and lowering the filter pressure and allowing the pump to work a little easier (more efficiently).
Am I on the right track?
Thanks,
Steve
The Pentair Quad DE filters are very well thought of and are fine with a SWG. The larger filter will be a good investment, less backwashing and just slightly higher system efficiency.