Stenner Pump Controller/Automation

[MyAZPool]

Okay, bet you all thought that this thread was "dead", but not so much lol. It's only just because I've been around the world first to finally be able to end up next door on this project.

I'm just about ready to pull the plug on the IntellipH I think and control acid dosing via REM/nodejs-poolController-dashPanel, and while utilizing a Sequent MicroSystems 10A/240V 4-relay card. Dosing will occur based on pH readings obtained via the Atlas Scientific Industrial pH sensor/probe. Real-time acid tank level monitoring will occur by utilizing REM's new Tank Level Metering feature. (more details to follow in a different thread). No more need looking for a tank level sensor now.

Just a question or two before I proceed.

1. @cmc0619 or @Katodude (coz you guys know my setup). Would it be okay to obtain the 24VDC needed to power the peristaltic pump, from the same 24VDC PSU that is currently providing power to the Sequent MEGA-IND Automation and 4-relay cards? I would assume so, but like the saying goes. The one question you don't ask is the one that will cause you the most grief.

2. I would also assume that the following diagram (hey, I'm not an artist like @jonpcar is ), illustrates the correct method in which to do this right? Again, just want to make sure I'm "on track" here before I go connecting wires. (smoke coming from my new automation panel would be a very bad thing).



Thanks all...
r.
EDIT: @Dirk ... My IpH controller panel may be available sooner than I thought, if this all plays out the way I hope it will.

 

[MyAZPool]

Okay, So, I just went out and performed some "documentation confirmations" on what is in the IntellipH manual.

1. Yes, the power to drive the peristaltic pump IS 24VDC. Performed a manual dosing (60 seconds) and measured the DC volts across the two conductor terminals. Okay, good-to-go there.

2. I also needed to know how accurate the dosing amount that was listed in the manual was. This is so I can plug that number into dashPanel/REM for the RDCLM calculations
The manual states "Approximately 4 oz. of acid will be dispensed". This is based on a 60 second dosing event.
I pulled the acid injector tube from the check valve doohickey and placed it in a measuring cup. I got 105 mL which converts to approx 3.69 oz.
Pentair was off by about 8%. Not too bad.

It's a shame that I have to confirm everything that I read in Pentair documentation. But sorry Pentair, you've fooled me "one too many times".
r.

 

[Katodude]

Assuming you over spec’d the 24VDC power supply (which would be normal for you) you should be just fine.

And who said smoke coming from your OCP would be a bad thing. You could potentially cook with that smoke.

 

[MyAZPool]

Assuming you over spec’d the 24VDC power supply (which would be normal for you) you should be just fine.

@Katodude
Thanks. It's the MEAN WELL EDR-120-5. 24V, 5-amp, 120W PSU. I know that the pump specs say "Max Load, 1 amp". The Mega-Ind specs say "Power Consumption - 50 mA @+24V. And the
4-relay card, I have no idea. As you know, a user cannot download a manual from Sequent MS unless you have an account and login. Last week when I tried to order that second set of cards. I couldn't login, so I called and Mihai told me that the "login" feature of the website was down. I just checked it this morning and still not working. So I can't get to the manual to look up the power consumption of the 4-relay card at this time.

Does the method of connecting power to the peristaltic pump through the relay look correct to you?

And who said smoke coming from your OCP would be a bad thing. You could potentially cook with that smoke.

Wouldn't exactly be my "first choice" for smoking. That "plastic" taste on the ribs, just wouldn't work for me.
Thanks...
r.

 

[Flying Tivo]

Does the method of connecting power to the peristaltic pump through the relay look correct to you?

That the way i have it hooked up since i removed my intelliph box, just that im using both poles instead of one as you have it. No harm having one pole live on the iPh motor. I always though that you had to leave the + live and the - to close by the relay, but since its DC voltage i thing it does not really matter which side is live.

 

[randytsuch]

FYI, looked at a pic of your sequent pi relay card
It uses four Songle srd-05vdc-sl-c relays.
Its for a pi, and appears to run on 5V

So is a pi and a 5V power supply in the mix somewhere?

I don't know what your system looks like.

But regardless, the relay card I saw in the picture won't use much power. Each relay takes about one third of a watt to activate, so less than 1.5 watts if all are active at once. That would be most of the power, whole card would be less than 2 watts.

 

[MyAZPool]

FYI, looked at a pic of your sequent pi relay card
It uses four Songle srd-05vdc-sl-c relays.
Its for a pi, and appears to run on 5V

So is a pi and a 5V power supply in the mix somewhere?

@randytsuch
Hey, thanks very much for the reply.
Yes sir, I am using a Raspberry Pi 4B and yes, the Rpi, 2-fan hat and two Tentacle T3 shields are powered by a 5VDC PSU.

But regardless, the relay card I saw in the picture won't use much power. Each relay takes about one third of a watt to activate, so less than 1.5 watts if all are active at once. That would be most of the power, whole card would be less than 2 watts.

Great information. Thanks much.
r.

 

[MyAZPool]

But regardless, the relay card I saw in the picture won't use much power. Each relay takes about one third of a watt to activate, so less than 1.5 watts if all are active at once. That would be most of the power, whole card would be less than 2 watts.

@randytsuch
Was finally able to get their manual downloaded, yep, only about 80mA per relay... Had to revise my diagram though.. Based on some advice, looks as though I need to incorporate an RC Snubber Circuit in the mix to help prevent a possible relay fusing since the relay is controlling pump/motor etc... Ordered and now I have to wait on that.
r.

 

[randytsuch]

I use similar (if not identical) relays to control my vsp, spa heater and sprinklers. VSP and heater are easy loads, but sprinklers are through very long wires (wires are inductive) and sprinkler actuators should be similar to a small motor, load wise. Never had a problem (knock on wood) without a snubber.
So I'm not convinced you need a snubber, but I don't think it will hurt either.

BTW, I use a pretty heavy duty relay to control power to a one horsepower motor for my spa
Spa motor relay

I remember researching what pool equipment companies use, and picking a similar relay. Installed over 2 1/2 years ago, working fine so far with no snubber.

 

[MyAZPool]

UPDATE:
The snubber circuit module arrived. All connected up and working fine as far as I can tell. Connected per the below illustrations.

 

[BlueRidgePoolGuy]

So how are you monitoring chlorine in the pool? What pump did you end up using @MyAZPool

 

[MyAZPool]

So how are you monitoring chlorine in the pool? @MyAZPool

@BlueRidgePoolGuy
I don't actually monitor chlorine per se. I monitor "Oxidation Reduction Potential" (ORP), which simply put is "a measurement of sanitizer effectiveness" in the water and is measured electronically in millivolts (mV)-.

The rise or fall of ORP values will indicate a rise or fall of free chlorine levels (FC) in my pool. However, that simple explanation can be VERY deceiving unless one understands that there are a great many variables that actually affect ORP values. I use ORP as nothing more than a trend indicator since the actual ORP values are not accurate due to the higher CYA levels (70-80 ppm), that I maintain in my pool. I still backup this monitoring with regular FC testing just to insure that my chlorine levels are properly maintained.

I use an Atlas Scientific Industrial ORP probe connected to a Whitebox Stackable Tentacle T3 “sensor host” add-on board that host an Atlas Scientific “Electrically Isolated” EZO Circuit. The Tentacle T3 stackable shield is connected and “mounts” if you will, to a Raspberry Pi micro-computer via its GPIO pins. After which the EZO circuits and sensors/probes, connect to the shield. This shield eliminates the need for additional wiring, multiplexing and electrical isolation.

The software ran on the Raspberry Pi is "relayEquipmentManager" (REM), which is a sensor, relay and chemical controller. Per the REM web page, "REM is designed as a software management console for hardware interfaces. It provides an easy to configure and manage user interface that links hardware devices to software solutions such as nodejs-PoolController, MQTT interfaces, and web sockets."

Here is a screenshot of my ORP page in REM.


And how I monitor my ORP on a regular basis via my Grafana dashboard.

What pump did you end up using

If you're referring to my Muriatic Acid Pump, I'm using the Stenner type peristaltic pump (and tank) that originally came with a Pentair IntellipH. I ditched the IntellipH controller long ago when I opted to go with REM instead. The REM application (along with associated hardware) together with nodejs-poolController, is much more versatile and offers quite a bit more options (and safety features) than the IntellipH. Just one example is I can now dose MA based on pH readings versus dosing based on "time". All that is required now is for me to monitor my MA tank level (which is also indicated in the illustration above) and just keep MA in the tank. The rest is performed by REM/njspC.

Other than finding TFP back in 2018, setting up and integrating nodejs-poolController, it's associated dashPanel and REM as well as their associated hardware, is the next best thing I have ever done for my pool!

Thanks...
r..

 

[BlueRidgePoolGuy]

So @MyAZPool have you heard of anyone being able to replicate a "test kit" results with digital sensors? Do you add chlorine at a fixed rate or based off of sensor values? do you add muriatic acid based off of pH values?

 

[MyAZPool]

@BlueRidgePoolGuy

So @MyAZPool have you heard of anyone being able to replicate a "test kit" results with digital sensors?

IMO, nothing that is practical or that is not cost prohibitive. But that may change as technology advances in this area and prices for a true FC sensor comes down (if they do).

Do you add chlorine at a fixed rate or based off of sensor values?

I don't add liquid chlorine to my pool with one exception (see my note below). Instead, I run a Pentair IC-60 SWCG and I adjust the output settings of my SWCG from my njspC dashpanel on my desktop, based on trends indicated by the ORP sensor and backed up with typical FC testing.

NOTE: In the winter and once my pool water temp is around 55 degrees or lower, the SWCG will cease to generate chlorine, so then I just disable it for the winter (again from my njspC dashpanel). So, if I need to boost my FC chlorine level occasionally in the winter, then in that case I will use liquid chlorine to bump the FC up a bit.

do you add muriatic acid based off of pH values?

Yes. I utilize an Atlas Scientific Industrial pH probe. The muriatic acid (MA) is added to the pool from the MA dispensing tank/pump (via a fitting installed in the return plumbing line) automatically and based on pH readings obtained from the pH probe. Those pH readings are processed by the njspC/REM software and the software commands the MA pump (via a relay) to dispense a certain amount of MA based on various parameters that are entered in a settings page in the software by the user.

Thanks...
r.