Stain Removing: Cloudy Blue Water Stage

Briar

Silver Supporter
Aug 28, 2019
64
Asheville, NC
I see you are in northern NJ! I lived in Bloomingdale on a little lake for years. I’m Southern by birth but I will always have that Jersey girl side to me. I loved it there especially after living so many years in NYC. I had a sign over the garage door that read Escape From New York!
 

duraleigh

Admin
Mod Squad
TFP Expert
Platinum Supporter
LifeTime Supporter
In The Industry
Apr 1, 2007
34,051
Sebring, Florida
To all responders....

THIS IS A BROMINE POOL AS OP HAS STATED. There is no FC in this pool and the advice for this pool is different than a chlorine pool.

I have no experience with bromine sanitation and cannot comment on how to clear it.
 

Briar

Silver Supporter
Aug 28, 2019
64
Asheville, NC
It is usually just so easy to clear by adding two pouches of non-chlorine shock and boom it’s clear. I can’t do that now as it would probably just bring back the stains. I will follow ajw22’s advice and keep the use of chems down, run the pump, keep a check on the ph and see how it goes.
 

Briar

Silver Supporter
Aug 28, 2019
64
Asheville, NC
I would greatly appreciate the help. Bromine works so well for this pool. When I bought the house, it was a chlorine pool. There are proper barriers installed between the house and pool but if I had the door open to the pool, I have two pekingese dogs who insist on being out here if I am here, the chlorine smell would permeate the entire house and this house has 6 levels. So we switched it over to bromine and then poof! No more chlorine smell. Plus I am a bit allergic to chlorine but not so much to the bromine. There are quite a few indoor pools in the Asheville due to the climate, so the good fellow who switched me over has a lot of experience with it. But he is retiring now, the co. that renovated the pool no longer does maintenance (they only build luxury pools now) so I am on my own these days. I have a big array of solar panels installed on the roof of the pool and the previous owners used a combo of solar/gas to heat. But I have yet to find anyone who can figure out how to plumb it back in. It’s ashamed. Heating this poll with propane is a heavy lift! And it always has to be heated to swim. It’s odd as Asheville is so solar oriented. I figure the right person will come along one day that will know how to manage it.

I have the vac running now and that seems to be making a little dent in the cloudiness. I’ve been reading my pump manual and WOW this thing can do a lot of stuff. Good to know. I should be ashamed of myself for not taking more time to get to know this pool and its works.
 

mknauss

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
Bronze Supporter
May 3, 2014
30,971
Laughlin, NV
There should be no 'chlorine' smell from a pool. You had a build up of Combined Chloramines. That is what smells of chlorine.

Indoor pools need a UV device to run the water through to eliminate the CC.

You were allergic to CC, not chlorine.
 

Briar

Silver Supporter
Aug 28, 2019
64
Asheville, NC
No one ever told me that. The pool company that renovated the pool installed an ozone machine but we took it out when we converted over to bromine. I haven’t had any issues with the bromine. Ive been very pleased with it. But now I have this cloudy issue from the AA, sequestrants and so I am out of my depth. I have some Brom start liquid and I thought that might be a better way to trigger the bromine over the shock. Not sure what effect that would have on the stain removing process.
 

JoyfulNoise

TFP Expert
Platinum Supporter
May 23, 2015
17,056
Tucson, AZ
How do you brominate (ie, activate and maintain bromine levels) this pool? Do you use tablets? If so, how many do you go through in a given season.
 

Briar

Silver Supporter
Aug 28, 2019
64
Asheville, NC
Hi!
Thanks so much for jumping in. I heard you were the one to turn to for all things bromine. I use Nava 1” tablets. I just added a new packet in the brominator so I would say I typically use about 2-3 packets filling brominator per year. My bromine levels usually stay 4-5 ppm. I had one algae bloom in 7 yrs and that was my fault for completely neglecting the pool for a long period. It cleared right up with liquid bleach, a potassium monopersulphate shock and then a dose of Nat Chem Pool First aid. I’ve read quite a few of your posts referring to DMH. Thank you for that. I’m not sure I have a problem with that yet as the bromine levels stay very stable at a low setting on the brominator. I do have a couple bottles of Brom Start on hand and wondered if that would be better to trigger the bromine than a mono shock. Trying not to bring the stains back. The water is a little clearer today, running the vac. The ph is 7.0 right now but the TA is pretty high at 150. Whatcha’ think?
 

JoyfulNoise

TFP Expert
Platinum Supporter
May 23, 2015
17,056
Tucson, AZ
Hi!
Thanks so much for jumping in. I heard you were the one to turn to for all things bromine. I use Nava 1” tablets. I just added a new packet in the brominator so I would say I typically use about 2-3 packets filling brominator per year. My bromine levels usually stay 4-5 ppm. I had one algae bloom in 7 yrs and that was my fault for completely neglecting the pool for a long period. It cleared right up with liquid bleach, a potassium monopersulphate shock and then a dose of Nat Chem Pool First aid. I’ve read quite a few of your posts referring to DMH. Thank you for that. I’m not sure I have a problem with that yet as the bromine levels stay very stable at a low setting on the brominator. I do have a couple bottles of Brom Start on hand and wondered if that would be better to trigger the bromine than a mono shock. Trying not to bring the stains back. The water is a little clearer today, running the vac. The ph is 7.0 right now but the TA is pretty high at 150. Whatcha’ think?
So it takes about 20lbs (very roughly) of BCDMH tablets to get to a 50ppm concentration of DMH in the water. Not much is published about the overstabilization effects of DMH on bromine but it does happen. If you haven't done any significant water exchanges in years, then I would say that your bromine sanitizer is probably very slow acting at this point due to high DMH levels. It may be fine for general bather swimming and comfort since this is an indoor, residential pool but that's not the situation you are in. You added ascorbic acid to your pool which dropped your sanitizer levels to zero and made your water very amenable to all sorts of pathogen growth. Your cloudiness might be from the metal chelators you added but it could also be the growth of water mold or bacteria.

What you need to do now is get your sanitizer back up and I would not rely on tablets to do that. You need to add liquid chlorine at this point to covert the bromide into bromine and to neutralize any remaining AA. You're going to have very high sanitizer demand while all of the metal removers breakdown. So you'll need to keep filtering to try to capture any solids that might precipitate out. Also, while MPS can be used to regenerate bromine, it is generally not recommended in a plaster pool with a heater. Sulfates will build up over time in your water and they can cause degradation of plaster ("sulfate attack") and cement surfaces as well as enhance certain forms of corrosion in metals.

Bottom line is I think at this point you need to worry more about your lack of sanitizer than about the stains returning.

Brom-Start (the HTH brand) is nothing more than sodium bromide salt and will not do anything for your pool. Your pool already has enough bromide (Br-) in it, you need to get to activating it.
 

Briar

Silver Supporter
Aug 28, 2019
64
Asheville, NC
Ok. I really appreciate this. So how much bleach/liquid chlorine would you start with? I have the pump running high at 3285 rpm and the pressure is around 19psi. The pool cleared a bit over the day running the vac and then high pump. I’m supposed to get some more Jack’s Fiber stuff early this week. I washed all of it out of the filter and could not replace it. It had some really gummy, light tea stain masses in it so I think it was helping filtering out the yuck. I can’t see the bottom of the pool at this point but the steps and spa are so much clearer. I hope I don’t undo it. I think I had a buildup of something on the entire surface. It has always been very rough and hard to brush. When I brush now, it seems to just glide and the steps have a very smooth feel now. I tried to find info if AA will have any effect on calcium/scale buildup but only the pool product people make that claim. If it did remove a layer of calcium, could that be part of what is in the water. The water is blue and milky. I’m not swimming right now so I am not freaked out not to use the pool. Do you recommend a different shock for my pool? I have used the mono stuff once and have a whole box of it left. Sorry for so many questions but it is very clear that I don’t know what I am doing and this help is so very appreciated.
 

JoyfulNoise

TFP Expert
Platinum Supporter
May 23, 2015
17,056
Tucson, AZ
Bring the chlorine/bromine up slowly until it starts to hold. Use PoolMath to see how much liquid chlorine is needed to add 2ppm FC; that will be about 4.5ppm Bromine. Add that much, let it circulate for 20-30mins while you give the pool a good brushing and then test. If you’re still getting zero on your total bromine, then add another 2ppm FC. Keep doing this until you can get a sanitizer reading and it starts to hold.
 

Briar

Silver Supporter
Aug 28, 2019
64
Asheville, NC
Bless You! I can’t believe I have found someone who knows how to manage the dreaded “B” word. I’m so happy and I thank you thank you. I downloaded pool math a few days ago but couldn’t figure out how to use it with the bromine. So I just use the liquid chlorine in the calculations and it will show me the way! I’ll get some bleach tomorrow. I guess that is ok to use. It’s all I have ever used. Thanks again.
 

ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
18,959
Northern NJ
! I’ll get some bleach tomorrow. I guess that is ok to use. It’s all I have ever used. Thanks again.
Plain bleach with no additives. Not Clorox bleach. No scents, not Cloromax Technology, no polymers, not splash-free.read the labels carefully.

Or HDX Chlorine from Home Depot...

 

Briar

Silver Supporter
Aug 28, 2019
64
Asheville, NC
Pool math calculated 83 oz. I had just enough plain bleach. No additives, not Clorox, no scent, no polymers. Iadded it and brushed. I will leave the pump on high and hopefully tomorrow the Bromine will start to come back up. I tested a few minutes ago and there was a slight tinge there but not enough to register. Too early to tell. Thanks bunches. I love that Pool Math. I can just use it testing the FC but I don’t know how it will work in total. It says my CSI .46 so I get that is too low. My CH always runs low. I need to add about 8 lbs of cal chlor to get it from 200 to 250 but I guess. I should wait on that while all of this other stuff is going on.