Stabilizing PH

[AmyCJeff]

About 2 weeks ago, I drained and refilled my pool and am now officially using TFP method I am now in what I consider "maintenance mode".
At this point, the only struggle I am having is PH & TA.
when the pool was refilled...TA was at 180. I worked hard to get it to 100 over the course of 3 days.

Here is the dilemma, once I got TA to 100, I have been aiming for a PH of 7.0.
My Ph has been rising .4 every day (except for yesterday, it only rose by .2)
So I have been adding quite a bit of MA on a daily basis
Because of Constantly adding MA daily, my TA has dropped another 30 in 3 days.

So, I am now at TA 70 and trying to maintain PH 7.0

My question is....will the PH start to stabilize (now that TA is 70) so that I won't need to add MA everyday? One it finds the "perfect" TA level, will the PH stop raising everyday? I mean, I know it will rise...but it should be a slower rise. I am worried that my TA is going to drop so low that it will create another issue. Meaning, I am successfully address one issue (keeping Ph at 7.0) while creating another issue...driving my TA too low.

Thank you for any help you provide

 

[Mdragger88]

You don’t need to keep ph at 7.0- anywhere in the 7’s is fine.
Let it rise to 8.0 & then lower it back down to mid 7’s. This shouldn’t drop your ta too much more.
The lowering to 7.0 is just to lower ta aggressively- you have done that.
Ph may hang out in the high 7’s for a while & that is fine.
Any ta 50 or above is fine

 

[mknauss]

Your fill water has 130 ppm TA. You are using fill water every day. Most from May to September. So your pH will continually rise. You need to test pH every other day or third day and add acid. My pH is typically 7.8 when I test and I add enough acid to lower to 7.4 or so. That will keep your TA relatively constant.

 

[AmyCJeff]

Gotcha! I have been testing everyday just because I am trying to get familiar with everything. I am hoping to move to testing Ph every 2-3 days. But right now, if my Ph rises by .4 everyday...if I go 3 days before I test, I could be running well above 8.0 for Ph for some time before I add MA. Is that Ok?

I think I understand the logic though...give your fill water enough time to raise your TA a tad...so that when you add MA, it is just mostly counterbalancing the TA rise from the fill water. Is that correct?

 

[mknauss]

I think I understand the logic though...give your fill water enough time to raise your TA a tad...so that when you add MA, it is just mostly counterbalancing the TA rise from the fill water. Is that correct?

Correct.
Relax. This is pool water. Spend more energy enjoying it! Once you realize that adding chlorine every day is not fun, get a SWCG. Then things get much easier.

 

[farmy87]

Seems like kind of a quick PH rise for TA of 70. Do you have fountains, waterfalls, jets breaking the surface or any other form of aeration going on?

 

[AmyCJeff]

Seems like kind of a quick PH rise for TA of 70. Do you have fountains, waterfalls, jets breaking the surface or any other form of aeration going on?

That is kind of what I was thinking. But, I think TA just got down to 70 in the last day. That is why starting yesterday, the PH only rose .2.
When our filter is on (8hrs a day) , we have a waterfall spillover from the spa that is on (18 inch wide, by 2 ft drop). I also dropped our VSP filter speed from 60% to 50% in the last day. Other than that...no other aeration going on.

I think if TA gets to 50-60...I think I will see PH rise by .1 or less in a day...at least that is what I am thinking?

 

[AmyCJeff]

Correct.
Relax. This is pool water. Spend more energy enjoying it! Once you realize that adding chlorine every day is not fun, get a SWCG. Then things get much easier.

I'm a Type A..so relaxing is hard to do...lol! But I get what you are saying I just don't want to "ruin" my pool anymore than I have (staining due to calcium build-up). at this point, I think I pretty much know what I need to do and how to maintain....so it should be pretty straight forward from here

 

[farmy87]

That is kind of what I was thinking. But, I think TA just got down to 70 in the last day. That is why starting yesterday, the PH only rose .2.
When our filter is on (8hrs a day) , we have a waterfall spillover from the spa that is on (18 inch wide, by 2 ft drop). I also dropped our VSP filter speed from 60% to 50% in the last day. Other than that...no other aeration going on.

I think if TA gets to 50-60...I think I will see PH rise by .1 or less in a day...at least that is what I am thinking?

Ah that makes sense. PH rise of .2 seems reasonable with that water feature.

 

[an1vrsy]

In our environment, we deal with high TA with our fill water and worse high evaporation So we’re adding water all the time. Do you have a whole house water softener system? Can you get it plumbed to your auto fill for the pool?

Do you have the ability with your pool equipment to turn off the spillover? Only use it for 30 minutes twice a day to refresh the spa with chlorinated water.

 

[AmyCJeff]

You don’t need to keep ph at 7.0- anywhere in the 7’s is fine.
Let it rise to 8.0 & then lower it back down to mid 7’s. This shouldn’t drop your ta too much more.
The lowering to 7.0 is just to lower ta aggressively- you have done that.
Ph may hang out in the high 7’s for a while & that is fine.
Any ta 50 or above is fine

Sorry...I didn't see your response earlier. I am keeping my PH on the lower end because my CH is at 700. So, I am trying to keep Calcium build-up at bay (and *maybe*, just *maybe* get rid of some of the buildup that happened when my CH was 1600+...ekk). take a look at my test log and you will see my very first reading was horrible.

 

[AmyCJeff]

In our environment, we deal with high TA with our fill water and worse high evaporation So we’re adding water all the time. Do you have a whole house water softener system? Can you get it plumbed to your auto fill for the pool?

Do you have the ability with your pool equipment to turn off the spillover? Only use it for 30 minutes twice a day to refresh the spa with chlorinated water.

I honestly don't think soft water system is an option right now (money). I do not think I have the ability to just run the pool filter. I Can do just spa OR pool&spa. But NOT pool only. I will take a look though.

 

[an1vrsy]

Post photos of your equipment pad, multiple angles so the experts and mods may be able to suggest ways you might be able configure your valves to provide that functionality.

 

[Mdragger88]

Sorry...I didn't see your response earlier. I am keeping my PH on the lower end because my CH is at 700. So, I am trying to keep Calcium build-up at bay (and *maybe*, just *maybe* get rid of some of the buildup that happened when my CH was 1600+...ekk). take a look at my test log and you will see my very first reading was horrible.

Now that your ta is lower it should be a bit easier to keep csi slightly negative. You’re getting there

 

[mknauss]

When our filter is on (8hrs a day) , we have a waterfall spillover from the spa that is on (18 inch wide, by 2 ft drop).

Please put in your signature you have an integrated spillover spa. That makes a big difference. You do not have any type of automation, correct?

 

[AmyCJeff]

Please put in your signature you have an integrated spillover spa. That makes a big difference. You do not have any type of automation, correct?

Done When you say automation...I have an app on my phone that I control all pool equip with. I can set schedule times (like pool filter turns on every day an runs for 8 hrs at 50% speed). But I can also turn those schedules off. Nothing runs without me telling it to.

 

[mknauss]

That is automation. What do you have? Please add that to your signature.

It is very likely we can guide you in creating a SpillOver function to schedule that and reduce the pH rise you are getting from the spillover.

 

[AmyCJeff]

That is automation. What do you have? Please add that to your signature.

It is very likely we can guide you in creating a SpillOver function to schedule that and reduce the pH rise you are getting from the spillover.

Oh...awesome! Just added it to my signature I would happy to try it out if someone can show me.

 

[mknauss]

Hayward OmniLogic - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

From the above:
See page 18 in OmniLogic Operation Manual.
See if you have the SPILLOVER button.
If not you need to fix your configuration as described in OnmiLogic Installation Manual. You need to use the Configuration Wizard. See page 33 and answer YES for...
Do you have Spillover? Select yes to this question if you have Spillover in your system. If yes is selected, choose the valves that will operate Spillover from the following screen.
Then you can set your programming to refresh the spa water twice a day and it will not become stagnant. You can run your spillover around 9AM and 1PM for 15 minutes to refresh the water at the start of the day and mid-afternoon.

Does your plumbing have a Spa make up line or is the Return valve just open to both the spa and pool returns?

 

[AmyCJeff]

Thank you for providing all of that info. I started reading it and seeing if I could get the spillover on a shortened schedule. I was talking to my husband about it and I think he might have come up with another option. He was able to balance one of our valves so that when the pool filter turns on it can filter the pool and at the spa at the same time, but in such a way that the water from the spa does NOT spill over into the pool. So in essence, we have disabled our spillover feature. I am OK with this, if it helps keep the Ph from rising faster than it should