Spa losing water to pool even after replacing check valves

[jamieSATX]

This is my first post to TFP. I've read many of the forums and have found them really helpful, but I have a unique situation that I wanted to ask the forum about.

We live in San Antonio and bought a house with a pool in June. It's a typical spa/pool combo (gunite) that was built in 2010. We have two pumps - a brand new IntelliFlo VS pump that we had installed when we first bought the house, and a separate pump for a waterfall that isn't connected to the filter system or to the spa.

A few weeks ago, I noticed that the spa was draining to the level of the spa jets (which is roughly the same level as the pool) whenever the filter pump was on low speed (1100 rpm), the filter pump was off, or the system was in spa mode. The only time there wasn't an issue is when the filter pump was on high speed (2500 rpm).

After reading some of the forums on TFP and talking with the pool service company I've been using, we had every check valve in our system completely replaced. We also decided to hire a leak detection company to have a thorough inspection done. The leak detection company tested every valve, drain, and jet in the pool and didn't find any leaks. They did find that one of the actuator/diverter valves was busted (see the picture), so we had a pool service company come to install a new one.

Once the check valves were replaced and the new actuator/diverter valve was installed, we stopped losing water in spa mode and we were losing only minimal water in low speed - but the water in the spa goes down significantly, and quickly, whenever the filter pump is off.

We have the following valves (from left to right):
-Spa jet return (check valve installed) - this is the line that returns water to the spa in spa mode
-Spa main drain suction
-Pool deep end skimmer
-Pool shallow end skimmer
-Pool main drain
-Pool return
-Spa return (check valve installed) - this is the line that returns water to the spa in pool mode

Shutting off the spa return valve doesn’t prevent the spa from losing water when the filter is off. To me, that indicates that the issue isn't with the spa return valve, which has a new check valve installed and seems to be doing its job by preventing water from going back to the pool via the spa return.

I also don't see how water can be coming back up through the spa jet return, since there is a new check valve installed there and also an actuator valve that closes that spa jet returns except for when spa mode is on.

The only plausible explanation that I can think of is that water is always getting through the spa main drain even when the actuator valve is switched to the “off” position - and this is despite the new actuator/diverter valve that was just installed. The actuator/diverter valve is probably letting in some water from the spa main drain all of the time. We just don’t notice it when the pump is running on high speed because more water is going back into the spa than is leaving through the spa main drain – so we don’t lose water in high speed. But if the pump is off, water continues to leave through the spa main drain, finds its way to the pool, and the spa level goes down because no new water is coming in.

Do you have any ideas or suggestions on what we could do next? I was thinking of having the pool service company come back to double check that the new actuator/diverter valve that they installed is correctly aligned. It seems to me like it's not exactly 100% flush with the plumbing, but it's hard to say.

Do you think they might need to cut open the pipes and install a new three-way valve into which the new actuator/diverter can be inserted?

I'm pretty stumped and really appreciate any advice or thoughts that you have! Thank you!

 

[setsailsoon]

Jamie,

Welcome to TFP! You've certainly run the traps on most items that can cause this issue. Any chance one of the check valves was installed backwards?

Chris

 

[Jimrahbe]

Jamie,

Did you change this one??

 

[jamieSATX]

Jamie,

Did you change this one??

View attachment 460629View attachment 460629

No, I didn't! I didn't realize that was a check valve until now.
That pipe takes water to the pool and spa return lines (away from the actuator, as shown in the picture).
Thanks for suggesting that as a possibility!

 

[jamieSATX]

Jamie,

Welcome to TFP! You've certainly run the traps on most items that can cause this issue. Any chance one of the check valves was installed backwards?

Chris

Thanks for the suggestion! I can definitely look into it. All of the check valves were replaced (with genuine parts bought from my pool store) by the leak detection company technician. Is there a way to tell if they were installed backwards without taking them off?

 

[Jimrahbe]

Jamie,

Kind of disappointed that the guys you had come out and work on your pool did not point that check valve to you as its job is to prevent the spa from draining back into your pool. It is the one that causes about 90% of the drain down issues.

If your spa check valves were installed backwards, the spa jets would never work at all.


Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[jamieSATX]

Jamie,

The check valve that I pointed out is the one that causes 90% of the problems when the spa drains down when the pump is off.

If your spa check valves were installed backwards, the spa jets would never work at all.

Thanks,

Jim R.

Oh wow! Thanks so much for letting me know. The leak detection company is coming back today. I'll ask them to look at that check valve, and I'll plan to get it replaced.

Right, the spa jets work perfectly so the other check valves were probably installed correctly.

 

[JamesW]

The red arrow is your Spa check valve.

The blue arrow is the Pool return line and the check valve is because you have a tab feeder right after the check valve.

The check valve prevents chlorine from flowing from the tab feeder to the rest of the system.

The tab feeder will cause a lot of damage to everything if the feeder contains tabs when the pump is off.

Besides the spa jets returns, do you have a different spa return?

Can you show more pictures of everything?

What check valves were replaced?

 

[jamieSATX]

Jamie,

Kind of disappointed that the guys you had come out and work on your pool did not point that check valve to you as its job is to prevent the spa from draining back into your pool. It is the one that causes about 90% of the drain down issues.

If your spa check valves were installed backwards, the spa jets would never work at all.


Thanks,

Jim R.

Thanks again, Jim! Quick question - should there be a check valve on the lower pipe between the

 

[jamieSATX]

Thanks to all of you for your help!

The good news is that we found out what's going on. The technician from the leak detection company came back out today, and he found that the new actuator/diverter valve that we had installed was the wrong size. It wasn't long enough, so water was coming up the spa main drain, through the valve, and then down to the pool through the skimmer lines and pool main drain.

The technician created two really helpful videos to explain what was going on. In the first video, he explains how the water was leaving the spa. In the second video, he shows that the diverter valve was the wrong size. He's coming back tomorrow with a new part that will fit.

Interestingly, it was the technician from a pool store who installed the valve that was the incorrect size when he was here for a service call - so the service call actually created a new problem that we weren't having before.

I'll update the thread when the new valve is installed and everything is back to normal. Thanks again!

 

[jamieSATX]

Also, we actually don't use the chlorinator and have never put tabs in it, so we're not concerned about the check valve that prevents chlorine from flowing from the tab feeder to the rest of the system.

 

[setsailsoon]

Thanks to all of you for your help!

The good news is that we found out what's going on. The technician from the leak detection company came back out today, and he found that the new actuator/diverter valve that we had installed was the wrong size. It wasn't long enough, so water was coming up the spa main drain, through the valve, and then down to the pool through the skimmer lines and pool main drain.

The technician created two really helpful videos to explain what was going on. In the first video, he explains how the water was leaving the spa. In the second video, he shows that the diverter valve was the wrong size. He's coming back tomorrow with a new part that will fit.

Interestingly, it was the technician from a pool store who installed the valve that was the incorrect size when he was here for a service call - so the service call actually created a new problem that we weren't having before.

I'll update the thread when the new valve is installed and everything is back to normal. Thanks again!

Great videos and clearly a contractor that knows their stuff! Keep them on your "good guy" list.

Chris

 

[Jimrahbe]

Jamie,

How about a pic of the entire return line system.. I want to see what is to the right of your tab feeder.

Sounds like the first repair guys installed more problems than they solved.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[JamesW]

Also, we actually don't use the chlorinator and have never put tabs in it, so we're not concerned about the check valve that prevents chlorine from flowing from the tab feeder to the rest of the system.

I would remove the tab feeder and the check valve.

They both cause resistance to flow and if the check valve flapper breaks, it will block the flow of water.

 

[ferretbone]

In the first three pictures you posted of the new actuator/diverter valve, It's not closed all the way. It is clearly still open, The off is not flush with the suction line, the new actuator was not calibrated correctly. They missed it by a half inch or so. That will cause a leak.

 

[jamieSATX]

I would remove the tab feeder and the check valve.

They both cause resistance to flow and if the check valve flapper breaks, it will block the flow of water.

Thanks for the suggestion! We'll look into doing this whenever we get additional plumbing work done in the pool.

 

[jamieSATX]

In the first three pictures you posted of the new actuator/diverter valve, It's not closed all the way. It is clearly still open, The off is not flush with the suction line, the new actuator was not calibrated correctly. They missed it by a half inch or so. That will cause a leak.

Thanks! I was thinking that too. For now, it doesn't seem to be causing a problem because changing the diverter valve stopped the spa from draining, but when I have another service call I'll ask them to check the actuator and recalibrate it if necessary.

 

[jamieSATX]

Jamie,

How about a pic of the entire return line system.. I want to see what is to the right of your tab feeder.

Sounds like the first repair guys installed more problems than they solved.

Thanks,

Jim R.

Hi Jim - it's hard to get a picture of everything since the equipment is in an enclosed structure, but here are pics of both pump systems - the filter pump system and then the separate waterfall pump system.

The booster pump that you see is detached and disconnected. It was leaking when we bought the house, so we had it removed by a pool service company. We use a robotic cleaner so don't need it.

Glad that everything is working now!

 

[jamieSATX]

Just to let everyone know that the technician from the leak detection company came out today and installed a diverter valve that is the correct size. As he promised, the spa is no longer draining when the pump is off (or at any other time).

Very glad the issue is resolved. Thanks to everyone here for your help!

 

[tstex]

Glad it's resolved.

Your call, but it sounds like "the tech" from the pool store caused a lot of issues for you to have to pay more/ Have you asked for any kind of credit from them since what they did was both wrong and co$t you more to have it properly resolved?