Spa losing level

[TexasYellowJacket]

About 3 weeks ago I switched to spa mode for my daughter and some friends. A short time later I noticed that the level in spa had dropped almost 1 foot. I had to keep switching back to pool mode allowing the spa to fill up through the single discharge to spa, then return to spa mode and turn the heater back on. This happened several times throughout the day. Since then, the spa loses level when the pump shuts down. While running in normal pool mode, the pool will flow a little into the spa overflowing back to the pool. After shutting down, the level drops more than a foot. I suspect that my discharge valve is not sealing, allowing the spa to flow back to the pool after shutting down, and allowing it to directly flow to the pool when in spa mode. The level was down to just below the jet on the left. I tried to measure the spa level relative to the pool and it's pretty close. We got some rain a few days ago and the level in both pool and spa are higher now. I suspect the head is equalized across the piping. Thoughts?

Is there anything special about Jandy valves or are the internals essentially the same and I should order the o-rings? Diverter also?
Thanks,
James

 

[bradgray]

About 3 weeks ago I switched to spa mode for my daughter and some friends. A short time later I noticed that the level in spa had dropped almost 1 foot. I had to keep switching back to pool mode allowing the spa to fill up through the single discharge to spa, then return to spa mode and turn the heater back on. This happened several times throughout the day. Since then, the spa loses level when the pump shuts down. While running in normal pool mode, the pool will flow a little into the spa overflowing back to the pool. After shutting down, the level drops more than a foot. I suspect that my discharge valve is not sealing, allowing the spa to flow back to the pool after shutting down, and allowing it to directly flow to the pool when in spa mode. The level was down to just below the jet on the left. I tried to measure the spa level relative to the pool and it's pretty close. We got some rain a few days ago and the level in both pool and spa are higher now. I suspect the head is equalized across the piping. Thoughts?

Is there anything special about Jandy valves or are the internals essentially the same and I should order the o-rings? Diverter also?
Thanks,
James

There should be a check-valve (one way valve) on your spa return.

Sometimes builders don't use these and rely on diverters and only put a check-valve on the make-up lines.

Can you give us a couple more photos of your equipment and valves from a bit further back?

 

[Jimrahbe]

Tex,

In the Spa mode, the automated Intake Valve should be set so that it sucks water from only the spa drain and the Automated Return valve should be set so that it returns all the water to the Spa.

In most pools, this means that when you switch between the Pool mode and the Spa mode (Or switch back) both valves should move about 180 degrees at the same time.

Go out and see if both of your valves are moving and also ensure that they point where they should when in the Spa mode.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[TexasYellowJacket]

Thanks all for the help. The actuated valves do turn fully. We've been in the house for over 2 years and used the spa many times without issues. I suspect the diverter valve on the return. This would explain why the level drops while in spa mode and also in pool mode after the pump shuts down.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Tex,

When in the spa mode, with the pump running, if the spa water level drops, it should be because not all the water is being returned to the spa.

I agree that the first thing to look at would be the Return valve. I suspect the diverter inside the Jandy valve is leaking badly.

Does the Spa hold its level when the pump is off??

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[bradgray]

Your photo shows the system in pool mode, which means there should be a small amount of water given to your spa. Yet I don't see a make-up valve and the actuator is at full lock. I'm not sure where the water to the spa is coming from while in pool mode.

I'm also not sure why one of your pool returns has a check valve; what pool feature do you have that is above the water line or otherwise would require one-way flow?

 

[Jimrahbe]

Brad,

The pipe on the pool side, with a check valve, is most likely going to the spa to cause it to spill over into the pool.

This particular setup does not appear to have an adjustment valve so that you can control the amount of flow to the spillover. Sigh!!

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[bradgray]

Brad,

The pipe on the pool side, with a check valve, is most likely going to the spa to cause it to spill over into the pool.

This particular setup does not appear to have an adjustment valve so that you can control the amount of flow to the spillover. Sigh!!

Thanks,

Jim R.

This is exactly what I was thinking. And a failure in the check valve there could explain the loss when in pool mode AND spa mode.

@TexasYellowJacket can you confirm this for us regarding the check valve?

Edit* I removed my last suggestion. Let's start with the above.

 

[TexasYellowJacket]

The line with the check valve in it must be the single line to the spa that causes the spillover. I never knew what that line was for. I assumed the spillover was just a branch off one of the main pool lines. To me, the check valve doesn't look like it is working at all. I tried to attach a video but it is too large. Had my daughter start the pump while I watched the check valve. Saw no change. I would assume the flap would push down towards the glass upon flow. I can see how the spa can gravity flow back through this line to the pool in spa mode, and also in pool mode after the pump stops.

The spa will not hold level now when pump is off.
The valve / pipe next to the check valve is to misting spray nozzles along the edge of the pool.

I read on Inyopools website that the flow must be up through this valve. Obviously this is not the setup for my spa. Is this a problem?

 

[Jimrahbe]

Tex,

The check valve in the line going to the spa is only there to send water to the spa (for spillover) when the system is in the Pool mode. It should have zero effect when in the Spa mode. This same check valve is what keeps your spa from draining down, when the pump if off. The normal flow for that check valve is DOWN.. You want water to go down to the spa and not have water come up from the spa.

The check valve could be bad or it could just be stuck.. Take the check valve out and see what it looks like. Activate it with your hand to make sure it works, then put it back in. Water may come out the open pipe depending on how high your spa is and the water level.

Your problem with the spa losing water when in the Spa mode should be your Return Jandy valve. I suggest that you take off the actuator, and then open the Jandy valve and see what the 'guts' look like.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[bradgray]

The check valve in the line going to the spa is only there to send water to the spa (for spillover) when the system is in the Pool mode. It should have zero effect when in the Spa mode.

Your problem with the spa losing water when in the Spa mode should be your Return Jandy valve.

@Jimrahbe , this would be accurate if it sat on the spa return side because even a failed CV would have pressure in Spa mode. But his is on the pool return, so in his case that spillover return is wide open to the pool returns which are not pressurized in Spa mode; it becomes one big equalizer line to the pool anytime the line isn't pressurized which is every moment except when the pump is actively running in Pool mode.

@TexasYellowJacket short of replumbing your system (which I would admittedly do if it was mine) I would suggest ordering two check-valves for this repair. Then you'll have one ready to go next time it fails (it will).

 

[bradgray]

I would assume the flap would push down towards the glass upon flow. I can see how the spa can gravity flow back through this line to the pool in spa mode, and also in pool mode after the pump stops.

Yessir.

I read on Inyopools website that the flow must be up through this valve. Obviously this is not the setup for my spa. Is this a problem?

Direction (up, down, left, right) is wholly dependent on the goal of the system. Your CV flap should be at the very top of the valve when closed. Which means it will drop down to the sight glass when in pool mode from the hinge at the top. Imagine an attic staircase that folds down from the ceiling.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Brad,

I now see your point.. Since the spillover line (Used in the Pool mode) and the spa jets line (Used in the Spa mode) essentially tie together at the spa, some of the spa water is being forced up through the spillover check valve and then back into the pool. This would certainly cause the spa to lose water when in the Spa mode.

I agree the first thing to do would be to replace the guts of the spillover check valve. @TexasYellowJacket

Thanks for the feedback..

Jim R.

 

[bradgray]

Brad,

I now see your point.. Since the spillover line (Used in the Pool mode) and the spa jets line (Used in the Spa mode) essentially tie together at the spa, some of the spa water is being forced up through the spillover check valve and then back into the pool. This would certainly cause the spa to lose water when in the Spa mode.

I agree the first thing to do would be to replace the guts of the spillover check valve. @TexasYellowJacket

Thanks for the feedback..

Jim R.

Yep! I have to admit I was doubting my mental/visual assessment a couple times. It's a unique set up that we never see in my area and less than ideal for the reason you mentioned earlier (flow control) but also for the reason this thread now exists!

 

[TexasYellowJacket]

Final resolution: Removed the check valve. The flapper looked good. The spring was strong (thus the reason it never appeared to open to me). I rinsed it off, relubed the o-ring, put it back together, and it is fixed. Obviously, some piece of debris was lodged keeping it slightly open at all times.

 

[bradgray]

Final resolution: Removed the check valve. The flapper looked good. The spring was strong (thus the reason it never appeared to open to me). I rinsed it off, relubed the o-ring, put it back together, and it is fixed. Obviously, some piece of debris was lodged keeping it slightly open at all times.

Thanks for the follow-up! It's helpful to future readers