So you want to add borates to your pool--Why and How

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Well, I targeted Borates at 40, since I bought all 7 boxes from Walmart (cheap, $3.38), and that's where 7 boxes took me. How can you tell what the level actually is, the strips go from 30 to 50, I'm between, but no telling if it's 35 or 40 or 45. Is it OK to add 1 box (with 1 qt. of MA) at a time, without the 48 hrs of pump running? ...until I can actually match the "50" color? Should only take 1 box. My pool was pretty clear before, so I'm not seeing a lot of difference... but it is still clear! Love BBB (although have never had to add Baking Soda yet), my method is more like BBA.
 
40ish is in the effective zone, so no rush to do anything in particular. Personally I would call that good enough and leave it alone until next season. It's August already. The idea is to target around 50 in the spring so the level is still 30+ when you close in the fall. From that point of view you should be just fine until next spring.
 
JasonLion said:
40ish is in the effective zone, so no rush to do anything in particular. Personally I would call that good enough and leave it alone until next season. It's August already. The idea is to target around 50 in the spring so the level is still 30+ when you close in the fall. From that point of view you should be just fine until next spring.
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What causes the decline of the levels - is it just rain and other dillution (backwash and refill)?
 
Add another "B" for me, thank you very much...

I just dumped 67 lbs of granular Boric Acid into my pool -- another first time borate user. For Southern Cali pool owners, I just wanted to reiterate a post from 2Old4This back on page 17 of this post (thanks for the tip). Del Amo Chemical (http://www.delamochemical.com), in LA, sells the stuff, now in granular form. It's not as cheap as others mentioned on this thread but is definitely cheaper if you are trading the shipping cost for gas to get there. And, they are now willing to bust down 55 lb bags to whatever size you want. Total cost for 75 lbs of granular was under $120.

Funny, when I arrived to pick up the goods (btw, not the best of neighborhoods but could be worse), I was greeted by some dude in a full hazmat suit. Thought to myself, Crud, is there a reason that I might need one of those right about now!?! Never did end up seeing his face... for some reason, he wasn't willing to shed any of the suit the whole time I was there.

Anyway, as always, I can't thank the contributors of this site enough.
 
Re: Add another "B" for me, thank you very much...

arjaygee said:
Funny, when I arrived to pick up the goods (btw, not the best of neighborhoods but could be worse), I was greeted by some dude in a full hazmat suit. Thought to myself, ****, is there a reason that I might need one of those right about now!?! Never did end up seeing his face... for some reason, he wasn't willing to shed any of the suit the whole time I was there.
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As described in the EPA link in my post Are Borates Safe?, the inhalation toxicity for boric acid is an LC50 of 0.16 mg/L so the hazmat suit is mostly to prevent breathing in dust since they are separating and packaging it multiple times every day. The No Observed Adverse Effect Limit (NOAEL) with a margin of exposure of 100 is the same 8.8 mg/kg/day as for oral exposure. Per OSHA, they are playing it safe to prevent either cumulative or accidental exposure. When you add it to the pool, you shouldn't eat it nor throw up the dust and inhale. Once diluted in the pool it isn't the same sort of issue.
 
I have completed the 'migration'. I am assuming it will take a few days to fully dissolve into the water? My pool was pretty darn sparkly already so I am not sure I see the difference yet in appearance. It might feel better but also not sure yet. The water taste is flat out disturbing though. yuck.

I will wait a couple of weeks before my 'official' opinion.
 

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I've found a source of inexpensive granular boric acid on ebay.

http://stores.ebay.com/DudaDiesel-Alternative-Energy/_i.html?_nkw=boric&submit=Search&_sid=97361327

This vendor sells in multiple quantity sizes and offers free shipping on most items.

In my particular case, I can get 25 lbs for about $54 with free shipping.

Per the Pool Calculator, I need about 31 lbs of boric acid for my 12000 gal pool.

If I mix this with 1 box of 20 Mule Team Borax, shouldn't this be approximately pH neutral? I can add additional Borax and MA as needed to get to the 50ppm target. Total cost would be under $65.

Does this seem like a reasonable approach?
 
The boric acid will be very close to ph neutral. The borax will require some MA to balance.

I think the prices direct from dudadiesel.com are slightly cheaper then through their amazon store (I have orderd from their site before). I would consider just getting a 55 pound pail, since you will need more in future years and boric acid stores fine especially in the pail the 55 comes with.
 
Duda Diesel is a good place and using boric acid is a good approach. Both have been mentioned several times on previous pages of this thread.

I wouldn't bother trying to exactly cancel out the PH change when using boric acid. The PH change from adding boric acid is small enough that you can wait till after you have added the boric acid, measure the resulting PH, and adjust as needed. In many cases no PH adjustment is required at all, since for many people the PH tends to go up anyway so a little PH lowering is a good thing.
 
Thanks for the quick responses, guys. Just wanted to make certain that I wasn't doing something stupid by combining the two.

linen said:
The boric acid will be very close to ph neutral. The borax will require some MA to balance.

I think the prices direct from dudadiesel.com are slightly cheaper then through their amazon store (I have orderd from their site before). I would consider just getting a 55 pound pail, since you will need more in future years and boric acid stores fine especially in the pail the 55 comes with.
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I hadn't considered dudadiesel.com before. I see that they have the 55lb pail for only $75, but adding the $46 shipping to California makes the 25lb quantity (w/ free shipping) more economical. I'd prefer not to buy more than I need for 1 season, especially since storage space is always at a premium at my house.

JasonLion said:
Duda Diesel is a good place and using boric acid is a good approach. Both have been mentioned several times on previous pages of this thread.

I wouldn't bother trying to exactly cancel out the PH change when using boric acid. The PH change from adding boric acid is small enough that you can wait till after you have added the boric acid, measure the resulting PH, and adjust as needed. In many cases no PH adjustment is required at all, since for many people the PH tends to go up anyway so a little PH lowering is a good thing.
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I'm not necessarily trying to balance the mixture. I just wanted to use 1 or 2 boxes of Borax to supplement the boric acid. That way I would not need to purchase more boric acid than I need for the initial dosing. In the future, I figure I can add a couple boxes of borax + MA whenever needed.

Thanks for the feedback re: Duda Diesel. Always kind of uncertain when buying stuff off of ebay.
 
linen said:
peterl1365 said:
Thanks for the feedback re: Duda Diesel. Always kind of uncertain when buying stuff off of ebay.
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ebay? I thought you were looking at http://www.dudadiesel.com/search.php?query=boric+acid. As I said, I have bought direct from duda diesel and have had a fine experience.
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Well, it turns out that Duda Diesel has an ebay store, which is how I found them. Same prices as dudadiesel.com, but I wound up buying from ebay since I could pay with paypal. Not a big deal, but easier than entering all my address and credit card info again.

I hadn't read the entire thread when I posted so I wasn't aware of dudadiesel.com. The last time I read this thread was a couple of years ago, and I wound up postponing the borates because I had small children and a new dog. I wasn't certain yet if I was ready to pull the trigger until now.
 
Happy Spring! This year I am looking into adding Borates into my pool. Have had the pool open a week and getting it stabilized. Here are my current numbers, is there adjustments I should do before working on the borates (other than increase my Salt and CYA for my SWG)?

FC - 8 (just about finished shocking)
CC- 0
PH - 7.5
TA - 130
CH - 300
CYA - 20
Salt - 3000

Thanks!

~32k gallon gunite pool.
 
kjdiver said:
Happy Spring! This year I am looking into adding Borates into my pool. Have had the pool open a week and getting it stabilized. Here are my current numbers, is there adjustments I should do before working on the borates (other than increase my Salt and CYA for my SWG)?

FC - 8 (just about finished shocking)
CC- 0
PH - 7.5
TA - 130
CH - 300
CYA - 20
Salt - 3000

Thanks!

~32k gallon gunite pool.
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Happy Spring to you, too :wave:

Go back to Page 1, Post 1, of this thread for specific instructions. Get everything balanced, especially TA, before you start working on the borates.
 

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