So this just happened....

[Davegvg]

so you can see what Im talking about, I shot this in december during our big rain storms.

When these soot clumps waterlog they separate into incredibly fine powder.

all the other plant stuff is annoying for sure, pods, acorns, helicopters, leaves, dust bark chunk, something that looks like string and wraps around everything you guys all know.

Thanks for helping me out. Im intrigued.

UD

Aerial pool debris in West LA - YouTube

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Here are some pictures of the "fines" I rinsed from the filter screen and captured into a container (dried in a coffee filter) -

Not only is there some pollen and sand, but some very fine powder (silt & dust) as well. The powder has the consistency of very fine talc or corn starch. When added to water, it doesn't drop right away like sand does but rather it disperses into the water and completely clouds it up.

So I would say the fine filter screens will easily capture the road dust that is making its way to your pool.

 

[bmoreswim]

Excellent! Can you see if that amalgamation of stuff would make its way through the mesh filter if you have one?

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Excellent! Can you see if that amalgamation of stuff would make its way through the mesh filter if you have one?

Like what? The hairnets in the skimmer? Or the coarse filter screen? I don't have much else to sieve with....

 

[Davegvg]

Great picts- thanks. Hmmm

it certainly "appears" to be fine enough of a filter.

A sand filter gets down to what about 20-30 microns? It goes right through that.

Zeobrite claim 3-5, a DE filter is 3-5 - both hold it back.

Its kind of expensive to try if it doesn't work.


UD

 

[JoyfulNoise]

All the shops around me have loaner/demo units that they hand out for folks to test drive. Call around and ask. I'm sure they will loan you one for a week to take for a spin.

 

[Davegvg]

All the shops around me have loaner/demo units that they hand out for folks to test drive. Call around and ask. I'm sure they will loan you one for a week to take for a spin.

A test drive seems in order.

My T5 cleaned my pool in 2.5 hours nearly perfectly this morning,
The MX8 takes about 4-5 to do the same thing but has the scrubbers (nice but i dont have growth )
The G3 takes about 8 hours that is if it ever gets to the shallow end at all.

I dont need a new cleaner, but a thought of a cool new toy in the stable is starting to get me itching.

Thanks again.



UD

 

[Davegvg]

Although I never really throught about it before, I looked up what a standard coffee filter is on a micron rating and it appears they are about 20 microns.

Seemed a worthy snippet of info to share...

UD

 

[bmoreswim]

Like what? The hairnets in the skimmer? Or the coarse filter screen? I don't have much else to sieve with....

Yes, the coarse filter screen. That will tell us if Gilligan is missing anything/much by using only mesh.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Yes, the coarse filter screen. That will tell us if Gilligan is missing anything/much by using only mesh.

I'll give it a test in the morning to see what gets through the coarse screen. I suspect any of the large pieces of dirt or pollen will get stuck on the screen but the finer stuff will get through.

Although I never really thought about it before, I looked up what a standard coffee filter is on a micron rating and it appears they are about 20 microns.

Seemed a worthy snippet of info to share...

UD

I suspect the ultra-fine filter media that Dolphin uses is probably on par with a standard cartridge style filter media, so 10-15um is the minimum it will filter out. There's no way a pool cleaner of any kind using a filter bag or mesh will be able to get lower than that. As the particle filtration size decreases, the amount of head loss will go up and the cleaner will lose power and efficiency. So there's always a balance between smallest particle size and cleaner efficiency. I still maintain and use my manual vacuum head and try to vacuum my pool at least once every 7-10 days so that anything finer than what my robot can get will be taken out by my DE filter. Once you start getting below 15um particle sizes, the particles themselves can remain suspended in solution for quite some time and so settling and vacuuming is really the only way to clear them. For my local conditions of wind-born sand, silt and dust, this robot does a great job.

Obviously you have a unique circumstance given the proximity of your pool to a major roadway. I suppose dust, soot and fine particulates will always be an issue for your pool. It sounds like you have a wide variety of pool cleaners at your disposal so I doubt adding an additional one is going to make a huge improvement. You can probably do more with chemical methods (DE in the sand filter, clarifier, or floc) to improve clarity in your pool water if you so choose.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Yes, the coarse filter screen. That will tell us if Gilligan is missing anything/much by using only mesh.

So I was able to do the experiment with the fine particle I had captured from the last cleaning round.

Here is the setup - slurry of fine debris on coarse screen with a coffee filter under it -

This is the slurry after about 15mins or so -

And what made it through to the coffee filter -

As you can see, the fine particulates make it right through the screen. It should also be noted that this test was done under gravity-fed conditions which is not at all like what is happening inside the robot. The robot's motor creates quite a bit of pressure and flow across the filter basket so that increases the penetration of fines through the coarse screen and into the ultra fine filters.

I would say that, without the ultra-fine filters, most of the fine particulates are simply going right through the robot.

 

[bmoreswim]

Very interesting. Thanks Matt!

 

[Davegvg]

Thanks!

Curious, when you picked up the wet coffee filter was any debris underneath that?

UD

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Thanks!

Curious, when you picked up the wet coffee filter was any debris underneath that?

UD

Nope. The water in the underlying dish was clear with only the slightest bit of color to it. I made the slurry from the original leftover dried debris and some distilled water so the starting water was pure. I certainly would not drink the dish water but the coffee filter trapped the fines.

Again, we're talking about particle sizes down to 15um or so, that's as good as can be expected from cartridge style filter media.

 

[Davegvg]

Nope. The water in the underlying dish was clear with only the slightest bit of color to it. I made the slurry from the original leftover dried debris and some distilled water so the starting water was pure. I certainly would not drink the dish water but the coffee filter trapped the fines.

Again, we're talking about particle sizes down to 15um or so, that's as good as can be expected from cartridge style filter media.

I get the particle size just curious how fine a debris you get in your pool...thanks for all the picts you have taken and posted.

UD

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I get the particle size just curious how fine a debris you get in your pool...thanks for all the picts you have taken and posted.

UD

I definitely get silt that's more fine than what the robot will capture. It's one reason why I still manually vacuum my pool every weekend or so. I have a dedicated manual vacuum port from my suction cleaner days so it makes it easy to do some manual vacuuming. Since that line uses my DE filter, I can remove any settled fines from my pool. It's the suspended fines that takes lots of time but since I don't have a multiport valve to vacuum to waste, I can't use any chemical settling methods.

Overall, I am well satisfied with my cleaning options and the real goal was to save some power consumption $$$'S by not having a pump driven cleaner.

 

[Geebot]

Awesome just what I needed to see. Box in Box.

Is there a micron rating on the fine filter?

Thank you!!

UD

For me, dual basket is best for effectiveness. Without the inner basket the larger particles clog the pleats in the fine filter, reducing its effectiveness. Having that first barrier layer maintains a more consistent suction level.

 

[borjis]

I have a Dolphin E10 arriving today...will get that fine basket add on.

 

[Davegvg]

For me, dual basket is best for effectiveness. Without the inner basket the larger particles clog the pleats in the fine filter, reducing its effectiveness. Having that first barrier layer maintains a more consistent suction level.

I like this design which is why I asked Joyful for more details which he provided in a grand fashion.

Given he still manually cleans the pool I suspect Ill have the same if not worse blowby.


UD

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I have always manually vacuumed my pool on a weekly to bi-weekly basis, even when I had a suction-side cleaner running all the time in the pool. It is my opinion that no cleaner, not a single one, will do as thorough a job of cleaning a pool as a simple manual vacuum head on the end of telescoping pool brush pole. Robots, cleaners, etc, are all just "convenience tools" that allow pool owners to clean out most of the "big stuff" and visible dirt that gets blown into a pool thus freeing them up to do other tasks. Finer detailed cleaning happens when one actually put a little bit of elbow grease into the mix - brush, leaf rake/skimmer bag and manual vacuum, there are no shortcuts.