SO many questions!

[Palacemanager]

Hello TFP Members! I am questioning everything about our pool and how it is maintained. I will try and make this post concise so that answers and recommendations can be easily offered. I have already done much reading here and have concluded that most of what I have been doing in maintaining my pool DON'T work and were sold to me by the pool installer to secure future business from me! I have already purchased the TFP pro test kit with smart stir. I have not Slammed the pool. I feel overwhelmed by that process!

Current situation:
*We live in Michigan, so cold winters.

*My main struggle this year has been with alkalinity and PH. I have literally put in 10 gallons of MA over the course of the summer and have never gotten the alkalinity to budge below even 120 and it's mostly sat near 180. started the spring at 280! PH has not really fluctuated much but is slightly high at 7.8. I've been expecting it to drop with all the MA I've added.

*Pentair VS pump with Cristal Flow II filter with glass media. (This was highly suggested by the pool installer) I don't know now, as I question everything I was told!
Pump runs at the following schedule:
Daytime run is at 1850 for 6 hours. Evening is at 1700 for 8 hours. Overnight is at 2200 for 10 hours. My hunch is that if I had my chemistry regulated and was using the TFP protocol, I could probably change those speeds and save a ton of money on electricity.

*Frog Leap twin that uses a mineral pack and chlorine torpedo packs. My plan is to discontinue this and remove from the set up and continue with the TFP protcols for water chemistry and maintenance. I am considering an SWG, but haven't researched the cost to install yet, so I need to do that over the winter and make a decision.

I am sick and tired of the whole thing right about now and was considering closing the pool this weekend because the water temp has cooled enough that no one is using it anyway. I decided not to after watching a video on TFP You Tube, talking about waiting until the water temp is near 60 degrees. It's at about 76 right now. Also, because my chemistry is off, this will give me time to correct that before closing it.

So, the simple yet complex question is.....where should I start? If MA isn't affecting the alkalinity, what should I do? I should mention that we have well water straight from the hose, or softened if I use our garage faucet to add water.

I could go on with other questions, but maybe there is enough here for now that the answers I get will likely solve some of the other things I'm frustrated with.

So have at me.....with suggestions and advice! Thank you so much!

 

[Flying Tivo]

Welcome to TFP! You landed at a safe place. To beginning with you already stared with the right foot by ordering the TF Kit, you wont regret it. The only test we would like from the pool store is for Metals(iron and copper) they will test all but dont pay attention to the rest. This is because your prolonged used of the Frog system which adds copper. As for now, how is your water? Clear? cloudy? green? You have paid way to much attention to TA which is the least important parameter or the last to fix if off. For now just wait for your test kit to arrive, start by reading Pool Care Basics and reviewing SLAM Process, i know it seams daunting, but we are here to help. Review it sever times, it takes time, we all been there. You can lower your VS pump to run at 1100rpms for 8 hrs to start with if its able to skim properly, if not you can raise the rpms. So relax, you already are on your way to a truly Troublefreepool!

 

[pjt]

My main struggle this year has been with alkalinity and PH.

TA is the least critical part of pool chemistry. Keep the pH in the 7s.

What's your FC/CC and CYA? Is the water clear?

I have already purchased the TFP pro test kit with smart stir.

This is the best investment you'll ever make for your pool. Have you received it yet? How have you been testing until now?

Once we have solid test numbers from your TF-Pro, we can work on a solid plan of attack.

Pentair VS pump

What model #?

I could probably change those speeds and save a ton of money on electricity.

Yes.

Frog Leap twin that uses a mineral pack and chlorine torpedo packs. My plan is to discontinue this and remove from the set up and continue with the TFP protcols for water chemistry and maintenance.

Good decision.

 

[JJ_Tex]

Agree with the above that TA should not be a priority now, but once you get the other stuff figured out, here are the steps to lower your TA which can take days/weeks.

Lower Total Alkalinity

A lower Total Alkalinity level can help a pool owner stabalize their pH increase. We'll explain how to lower TA with a little help from muriatic acid.

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[newdude]

What a beautiful day to start over from scratch, with a 3 day weekend to follow.

New gameplan : get your kit and never fall below FC target range per the FC/CYA Levels. Add daily to end up free and clear above minimum tomorrow. If you have to overshoot target range in the peak season to accomplish that, so be it.

*anything else* we have time to work on. So no more fussing and struggling. No long term harm will come from the PH being out of range for 2 days (etc etc etc). So have a lemonade while we figure out how to address XYZ. If the FC is good, we have time.

 

[SecoSteve]

Great advice so far. I have a question on which Muriatic acid you are using. There are different grades available at the store. Let the forum know if you are using 31.45 or 14 Baume. If you're using the lower strength, then you may not be getting the proper results you are looking for. Also, let us know if it is "green", which could indicate it is NOT what you want for your pool(additives to make it less odorous, etc.)

Also, test your two sources of fill water( the softened and direct from the well) for Ph and TA, and it can't hurt for CH as well.

Post those results and what type acid you have used. Pool care and ownership can be frustrating at times, especially if you are given the wrong advice from your installer. Having a pool should be a great experience and I know this forum will get you to where you love your pool!

 

[ccbill]

.....where should I start? ...

• Since you are going to stop using your Frog Leap twin sanitizer go buy some liquid chlorine and start using it now..
• Use your TFP Test kit to make sure your FC is at the high end of the FC/CYA chart. Test often to get a feel for how your pool consumes chlorine - think in terms of PPM/day.
• Looks like you use the PoolMath app but your logs are sparse - get used to entering your test results every time you test. It is a valuable tool.

 

[Palacemanager]

Welcome to TFP! You landed at a safe place. To beginning with you already stared with the right foot by ordering the TF Kit, you wont regret it. The only test we would like from the pool store is for Metals(iron and copper) they will test all but dont pay attention to the rest. This is because your prolonged used of the Frog system which adds copper. As for now, how is your water? Clear? cloudy? green? You have paid way to much attention to TA which is the least important parameter or the last to fix if off. For now just wait for your test kit to arrive, start by reading Pool Care Basics and reviewing SLAM Process, i know it seams daunting, but we are here to help. Review it sever times, it takes time, we all been there. You can lower your VS pump to run at 1100rpms for 8 hrs to start with if its able to skim properly, if not you can raise the rpms. So relax, you already are on your way to a truly Troublefreepool!

My water is totally clear. I just ran a full test with my kit which I do already have.
FC: 2
CC: 0
PH: 8.2! haha.....that's a first that it elevated to that!
TA: 130
CYA: 60
BOR: 50
Temp: 76
I had some life interruptions in the past couple of weeks so I knew my chlorine was going to be low. The drop test for that was 3ish. Those colors are hard to see exactly what the number is!

When I started the season, I was totally on board with the whole Frog Leap system so I purchased their opening kit which included their BAM 90 day algaecide. What a disaster that was! the water was a yellowish/green which I thought was algae. But after testing, the Copper was sky high so used some little packets from the pool place that I put in the skimmer. That took away the yellow look to the water and lowered the copper level to normal. Still have the mineral pack in the unit, but will be discontinuing that as well. Didn't realize BAM was a copper based algaecide. Lesson learned!

So, I don't need to be concerned with the TA? That's what the pool place said was my first thing to correct and then everything else would fall into line. But now my PH is high, so I think I add baking soda? My pool is a 21 x 41 with a 7ft deep end. We have 2 skimmers and returns. Our equipment is in our garage so a little ways from the pool with a slight incline up. Not sure 1100 will circulate it well enough, but I can play with that. And then only for 8 hours total in a 24 hr period?

 

[Palacemanager]

• Since you are going to stop using your Frog Leap twin sanitizer go buy some liquid chlorine and start using it now..
• Use your TFP Test kit to make sure your FC is at the high end of the FC/CYA chart. Test often to get a feel for how your pool consumes chlorine - think in terms of PPM/day.
• Looks like you use the PoolMath app but your logs are sparse - get used to entering your test results every time you test. It is a valuable tool.

So liquid chlorine is all I need ever, right? No shocking? Just daily checks and additions if necessary? I just tested my pool again after a couple of week of interruptions with my husbands health, so I've added those to the logs. How do you see them? I was wondering about that and how I could share them. In the above post I added them manually.

 

[newdude]

So liquid chlorine is all I need ever, right?

A dose a day keeps the algae away.

No shocking?

Shocking is a Hail Mary correction due to skipping the daily attention. A Hail Mary is called a Hail Mary for a reason, as you've run out of better options than to pray.

How do you see them

You already have them linked. Click on someone's username and it comes up under their profile if they have it shared. Which you do.

 

[Palacemanager]

TA is the least critical part of pool chemistry. Keep the pH in the 7s.

What's your FC/CC and CYA? Is the water clear?


This is the best investment you'll ever make for your pool. Have you received it yet? How have you been testing until now?

Once we have solid test numbers from your TF-Pro, we can work on a solid plan of attack.


What model #?


Yes.


Good decision.

water is clear.
My Model number is 353133
Do you see you see my test numbers now?

 

[Palacemanager]

Great advice so far. I have a question on which Muriatic acid you are using. There are different grades available at the store. Let the forum know if you are using 31.45 or 14 Baume. If you're using the lower strength, then you may not be getting the proper results you are looking for. Also, let us know if it is "green", which could indicate it is NOT what you want for your pool(additives to make it less odorous, etc.)

Also, test your two sources of fill water( the softened and direct from the well) for Ph and TA, and it can't hurt for CH as well.

Post those results and what type acid you have used. Pool care and ownership can be frustrating at times, especially if you are given the wrong advice from your installer. Having a pool should be a great experience and I know this forum will get you to where you love your pool!

I buy it at Home Depot or Ace Hardware, They both carry the same one and for the life of me I can't find anything that describes the strength of it! I looked when I was buying it. Great idea to test the water directly! I will do that now.

 

[Palacemanager]

I buy it at Home Depot or Ace Hardware, They both carry the same one and for the life of me I can't find anything that describes the strength of it! I looked when I was buying it. Great idea to test the water directly! I will do that now.

water is clear.
My Model number is 353133
Do you see you see my test numbers now?

So adding MA is also the way I will lower the PH? I'm so confused! Especially now that my PH has bounced up so high. It hasn't been above 7.8 all summer. We did have a lot of rain earlier this week, so that it probably why? Since the MA has been ineffective in lowering the TA, how do I lower the PH now?

 

[SecoSteve]

I buy it at Home Depot or Ace Hardware, They both carry the same one and for the life of me I can't find anything that describes the strength of it! I looked when I was buying it. Great idea to test the water directly! I will do that now.

That tells me that you are using the "green" muriatic acid. This is the one you want, but a lot of Home Depot stores don't have it.

HDX 1 Gal. Muriatic Acid Balancer (2-Pack) 10031HDX - The Home Depot

HDX 1 Gal. Muriatic Acid (2-Pack) is a powerful pH reducer for your swimming pool. It comes ready to use, with no pre-mixing required. This fast-working chemical helps prevent scaling caused by calcium-based

www.homedepot.com

 

[SecoSteve]

That tells me that you are using the "green" muriatic acid. This is the one you want, but a lot of Home Depot stores don't have it.

HDX 1 Gal. Muriatic Acid Balancer (2-Pack) 10031HDX - The Home Depot

HDX 1 Gal. Muriatic Acid (2-Pack) is a powerful pH reducer for your swimming pool. It comes ready to use, with no pre-mixing required. This fast-working chemical helps prevent scaling caused by calcium-based

www.homedepot.com

Be very careful with this though, it has a very strong odor. Try to stay up wind of it when pouring.

 

[ccbill]

We can see your PoolMath logs. You definitely need to add some liquid chlorine to get the FC up. If your pool is 33000 gallons you need to add a couple of gallons of 10% chlorine just to get it in range.
Adding a little too much chlorine will be OK. PoolMath has an "Effects of Adding" section that will tell you what happens when you add chemicals - your logs show your pool size so the effects should be pretty close.

Yes, use muriatic acid to lower the pH. I'd say the free chlorine should be adjusted first. "Effects of Adding" in PoolMath will also help you decide how much MA to use..
Post a picture of the label for the MA you are using.

You should spend some time reading through Pool Care Basics - no particular order - maybe with a glass of wine or a beer or some hot chocolate. Or Ice Cream!

 

[pjt]

The drop test for that was 3ish. Those colors are hard to see exactly what the number is!

Are you using the FAS-DPD test (powder and drops) or the OTO (color block) test? You should be using the FAS-DPD.

That took away the yellow look to the water and lowered the copper level to normal.

The only way to remove copper from your pool is draining, which is one of many reasons never to use copper products.

So, I don't need to be concerned with the TA?

Correct.

But now my PH is high, so I think I add baking soda?

No, do not add baking soda. Add muriatic acid to lower the pH. The MA will also lower your TA slightly.

So liquid chlorine is all I need ever, right?

Yes. For chlorination, all you need (or want) is LC.

No shocking?

Correct. Just maintain your FC at or above the target for your CYA.

Just daily checks and additions if necessary?

Until you get your chemistry under control, daily checks of pH and FC are good. Once things are under control, you can test FC and pH a couple times a week. You'll dose LC almost every day.

Not sure 1100 will circulate it well enough, but I can play with that. And then only for 8 hours total in a 24 hr period?

Do some experimenting to determine the minimum RPM that still achieves your purposes. Many people (including myself) run their systems constantly at low RPM.

So adding MA is also the way I will lower the PH?

Yes.

Since the MA has been ineffective in lowering the TA, how do I lower the PH now?

What's the TA of your fill water? Any baking soda additions?

MA to lower your pH will reduce your TA over time. Use full strength 31.45% MA. You can find it at Lowes or Home Depot.

Here's the best and safest method for adding MA: Adding Muriatic

 

[Flying Tivo]

BOR: 50

Have you added Borates to your pool??? If not then you dont need to test for this. In the pool math app also track CSI in settings. You are doing great, you will soon get the hang of it.

 

[Palacemanager]

That tells me that you are using the "green" muriatic acid. This is the one you want, but a lot of Home Depot stores don't have it.

HDX 1 Gal. Muriatic Acid Balancer (2-Pack) 10031HDX - The Home Depot

HDX 1 Gal. Muriatic Acid (2-Pack) is a powerful pH reducer for your swimming pool. It comes ready to use, with no pre-mixing required. This fast-working chemical helps prevent scaling caused by calcium-based

www.homedepot.com

Have you added Borates to your pool??? If not then you dont need to test for this. In the pool math app also track CSI in settings. You are doing great, you will soon get the hang of it.

I did add borate in the beginning of the season.
I went to Home Depot and got this MA. I put in 231 oz per the pool math app recommendation. I also added 2 gallons of liquid chlorine, brushed the sides and bottom and started the dolphin vacuum for tonight. Will test again tomorrow and probably vacuum with the pool system vacuum. Thankfully, we don't have many trees around the pool so we don't get a lot of debris. Oh, I also backwashed and rinsed the filter. So for today I think I am on a roll to getting things settled and then I will monitor over the next couple of weeks before closing when the temps drop more.
Thanks so much to everyone who replied with great suggestions! You all made me feel more competent and relaxed about getting things straightened out! Have a wonderful Labor weekend!

 

[Palacemanager]

I did add borate in the beginning of the season.
I went to Home Depot and got this MA. I put in 231 oz per the pool math app recommendation. I also added 2 gallons of liquid chlorine, brushed the sides and bottom and started the dolphin vacuum for tonight. Will test again tomorrow and probably vacuum with the pool system vacuum. Thankfully, we don't have many trees around the pool so we don't get a lot of debris. Oh, I also backwashed and rinsed the filter. So for today I think I am on a roll to getting things settled and then I will monitor over the next couple of weeks before closing when the temps drop more.
Thanks so much to everyone who replied with great suggestions! You all made me feel more competent and relaxed about getting things straightened out! Have a wonderful Labor weekend!

btw....what is CSI again? I'm sure I read about it someplace!