just a reminder from two previous posters that you didnt answer. do you have a ladder or underwater light where some algae could be hiding?
SLAM ing 3.0ppm combined chlorine
- Thread starter mikefamig
- Start date
I've been trying to reply to all posts but I guess I missed a couple.
My pool is very simple 16x32 rectangle with 4' staircase in the center of one end. No ladders and no lights or accessories. One skimmer and four return ports, two in one of the long walls and two in the staircase. It has a Hayward sand filter, Hayward 3/4hp pump and Rheem milivolt LP gas heater.
Mike.
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Took another test at 5:45pm and got 17ppm free cl and 2.5ppm combined which is the same combined as it was this morning. As I said I did remove a mouse from the skimmer basket this morning that was not there yesterday. I'm disappointed that I got the same reading this evening as this morning but I decided to add 1/2 gallon of chlorine and test again in the morning. If it is still 2.5 then I am going to quit adding shock, let the free cl drop to normal levels and try to dilute the combined chlorine with rainwater and adding fresh tap water a little at a time.
If at that point the combined cl starts rising again I will have to go back to finding a source of contamination.
That or fill the hole with dirt and plant tomatoes.
Mike.
If at that point the combined cl starts rising again I will have to go back to finding a source of contamination.
That or fill the hole with dirt and plant tomatoes.
Mike.
This is a tough one. Did you take off the return jet nozzles and feel around inside the pipes? might be something in there. running out of ideas.
I'm not ready to start taking things apart yet.
It is interesting to me that the CC decreases and stays at that decreased level when rain water is added to the pool but maintaining the free chlorine at 20+ ppm does not lower it. I tested this morning and free cl was 20ppm and conbined cl was 2.5 ppm, the same as last night. Overall I have lowered the CC from 3.5 to 2.5 but it is after rain storms that the CC fell.
After testing this morning I decided to add one more gallon to get the chlorine up to about 25ppm which will satisfy the 10x combined chlorine rule. If this has no effect by this evening then I will let the chlorine drop to below 10ppm and start the long slow process of diluting the water.
Mike.
And I just ran my hand around inside the sand filter again just to be certain that there is nothing in there. Clean filter, clean pump basket and clean skimmer basket outside of a few bugs.
Mike.
Mike.
When you are testing the CC does it ever go clear, even for a brief time? Does the water have a strong bleach smell?
No and No. The water has no odor and everything seems perfect.
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I'm sorry but my previous post is wrong. The sample does go clear when testing for combined chlorine. I use a 10Ml sample and it goes clear after 5 drops of 871 reagent.
Mike.
sorry, my nozzles simply unscrew, a minor thing. not sure what you have. was just a thought. i have found stuff in mine before, when i was on baquacil, and slime/mold reared its head.
How long are you pausing between drops of 871? Try swirling for a slow count of 10 between each drop.
A few thoughts that may help.
Skimming this thread tells me you are fairly new to the key measurements. So I'll suggest you take a look at the TFTest kit videos and the taylor videos. There may be some simple ah-ha moment.
For example, your CYA can't be 45. If you follow the directions to the letter you round up.
Second, if you have a good amount of DPD reagents, why not try the 25ml test? It is more precise, and may tell you something that the less precise measurement it not. If you are low on reagent, get to TFT and get some more. Knowledge is power here for sure. I find accuracy helps, especially when you are looking for trends.
Are you swirling a lot? Maybe consider buying a speedstir?
As for replacing water to lower CC, this may or may not help. The CCs tell you you are killing off a lot of stuff. If you lower FC you will stop or slow down the ammo you are slinging at the enemy. So whatever it is that you are killing will start growing more.
Another question; with CYA at 50 your shock level is 20; are you keeping it at 20 all day and all night? The more you keep your side armed with a constant onslaught of FC, the faster you will vanquish the enemy. Said another way, CCs is measuring the enemy's casualties; as the enemy's size is diminished, this will lower. Basically, what I'm saying here is, since you are letting your FC drop below the SLAM, you may be in a stalemate. You get the FC up, you start to beat back the algae, then the algae uses up the FC such that it falls below the SLAM level, allowing the algae to recover, meanwhile creating plenty of CCs. Then you raise it up again, and make a whole bunch of CCs, but then the depleted FC allows more Algae to grow, etc. Basically, I'm speculating that maybe you just are not getting it up there enough to win the fight, so you are just holding and killing a lot of growing Algae, but it keeps getting replenished because you are not up there all the time.
So...Keep that FC at 20 all day and all night. Any chance this could be mustard algae? If so, the SLAM levels are significantly higher, and this could explain what is going on too.
Also, if the CYA test measured a little on the low side, and it is actually 60, your slam level would be 24, so that may be an explanation why you are neither winning nor losing the war. Since emptying the water could be diluting the CYA, this also could be evidence that your CYA is higher than you think.
TFTest kits has a slightly different CYA test [the tube is larger], that I find easier to get a good CYA measurement. If you wanted to go all out, you can buy a CYA reference [TFT happens to have a CYA standard at 50]. So you can compare the standard to your water, if they match, you are at fifty.
Also, test CYA with your back to the bright sun so that your body creates a shadow in front of you and do the CYA test in your body shadow--don't stare at the dot, take a quick look, add a little more solution, take a quick look, add a little more, etc.
Skimming this thread tells me you are fairly new to the key measurements. So I'll suggest you take a look at the TFTest kit videos and the taylor videos. There may be some simple ah-ha moment.
For example, your CYA can't be 45. If you follow the directions to the letter you round up.
Second, if you have a good amount of DPD reagents, why not try the 25ml test? It is more precise, and may tell you something that the less precise measurement it not. If you are low on reagent, get to TFT and get some more. Knowledge is power here for sure. I find accuracy helps, especially when you are looking for trends.
Are you swirling a lot? Maybe consider buying a speedstir?
As for replacing water to lower CC, this may or may not help. The CCs tell you you are killing off a lot of stuff. If you lower FC you will stop or slow down the ammo you are slinging at the enemy. So whatever it is that you are killing will start growing more.
Another question; with CYA at 50 your shock level is 20; are you keeping it at 20 all day and all night? The more you keep your side armed with a constant onslaught of FC, the faster you will vanquish the enemy. Said another way, CCs is measuring the enemy's casualties; as the enemy's size is diminished, this will lower. Basically, what I'm saying here is, since you are letting your FC drop below the SLAM, you may be in a stalemate. You get the FC up, you start to beat back the algae, then the algae uses up the FC such that it falls below the SLAM level, allowing the algae to recover, meanwhile creating plenty of CCs. Then you raise it up again, and make a whole bunch of CCs, but then the depleted FC allows more Algae to grow, etc. Basically, I'm speculating that maybe you just are not getting it up there enough to win the fight, so you are just holding and killing a lot of growing Algae, but it keeps getting replenished because you are not up there all the time.
So...Keep that FC at 20 all day and all night. Any chance this could be mustard algae? If so, the SLAM levels are significantly higher, and this could explain what is going on too.
Also, if the CYA test measured a little on the low side, and it is actually 60, your slam level would be 24, so that may be an explanation why you are neither winning nor losing the war. Since emptying the water could be diluting the CYA, this also could be evidence that your CYA is higher than you think.
TFTest kits has a slightly different CYA test [the tube is larger], that I find easier to get a good CYA measurement. If you wanted to go all out, you can buy a CYA reference [TFT happens to have a CYA standard at 50]. So you can compare the standard to your water, if they match, you are at fifty.
Also, test CYA with your back to the bright sun so that your body creates a shadow in front of you and do the CYA test in your body shadow--don't stare at the dot, take a quick look, add a little more solution, take a quick look, add a little more, etc.
No, how much or what sort of a difference will that make? I wait about a second between drops.
Mike.
1 - Yes i am new at testing and will look at some more videos but I have viewed a couple. I have also experienced a low CC reading a month or so ago so I know what it should look like.
2 - I already have two means of measuring the cya. I have the taylor kit and I also have another test kit with a larger vial that has a plastic slide that you slide up and down in order to read the dot. I'm pretty confident that I have a reliable reading.
As for having a deadlock, I figure either that is true or my test kit is giving a false positive on the CC. I have been keeping the free cl at or above 20 since Monday morning this week. I liked Richard's suggestion that the vial could be dirty but I washed it well with no help.
Is it possible that the algae is defeating 20ppm free chlorine while my water is crystal clear? How much algae can there be when the water is clear? It just doesn't make sense to me. And how high can I raise my chlorine without ruining my vinyl liner?
If I lower the chlorine and the CC starts increasing again then I have a problem. If it does not then there is something wrong with the testing procedure here. There has to be something really big that I am overlooking or missing.
Mike.
I just tested again and the CC is till 3.5, the same as this yesterday evening and this morning. Based on suggestion here that I may have higher cya than I think that that I am in a deadlock with the bacteria, I have added 1 gallon of 12% liquid and 2 cups of 65% cal hypo which I estimate will add about 10ppm to the existing 23 that I measured.
If THAT does not lower the CC then I absolutely quit this procedure. I said twice before that I was going to quit but I want to be certain that I was not too timid with the shock and missed the mark to break up the CC. That much chlorine I hope will take into account any miscalculation or mis-reading that I have done in testing the cya.
Again I ask, how much chlorine is TOO much chlorine for a vinyl liner?
Mike.
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No I am not using a stirrer.
If THAT does not lower the CC then I absolutely quit this procedure. I said twice before that I was going to quit but I want to be certain that I was not too timid with the shock and missed the mark to break up the CC. That much chlorine I hope will take into account any miscalculation or mis-reading that I have done in testing the cya.
Again I ask, how much chlorine is TOO much chlorine for a vinyl liner?
Mike.
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No I am not using a stirrer.
I think how you add the chlorine is just as if not more important. Since SLAM levels for SWG systems would be in the neighborhood of what you are doing, i think that level is fine. If you add that much chlorine then turn off the pump, i can pretty much guarantee you are going to fade your liner in spots. or if you dump it in all in one spot. That is not a specific answer; i dont know one.
I thought that you meant to remove the faceplate on the return port. I am not using any nozzles on the ports right now.
Mike.
I was thinking pretty much the same. I have seen charts with shock levels up to 40 so I take that to mean that it has been done. I add the chlorine slowly at the output ports and run an aquabot to mix it with the pump running 7x24.
Get yourself a SpeedStir, $26.50 + $4.50 shipping on Amazon right now. Worth every penny.
Besides being a 'neat gadget' it will absolutely help you get more precise and accurate measurements with your chemical testing. You turn it on, the stirring bar starts stirring immediately, no need to try and shake/stir the vial with one hand while you're trying to slowly squeeze the bottle with your other and count drops at the same time.
Besides being a 'neat gadget' it will absolutely help you get more precise and accurate measurements with your chemical testing. You turn it on, the stirring bar starts stirring immediately, no need to try and shake/stir the vial with one hand while you're trying to slowly squeeze the bottle with your other and count drops at the same time.
I'm hesitant to buy it because I probably won't need or use it when this crisis is over.