It was put in 20 years ago. Maybe that was the rate then? We know because the homeowners left us all the documentation that they were given and some of their own, just not the estimate they were given on the issue with the pool.
Skimmer sinking. Neighbors retaining wall fell.
- Thread starter Poolsnotmygame
- Start date
I am talking to a lawyer. Or two. It’s just not a guaranteed win for us. The lawyer just said it sounds like you have a case. The most we have at the moment is that the neighbors knew they had it estimated to fix, and they guy was freaking out about it. I dont know the company they contacts etc. also, we were told this could go on for years before it’s settled. If we pay an attorney by the hour we could end up paying the lawyer almost everything we win if we do end up winning.
I still maintain that it is a very slim possibility that the retaining wall failing is causing the pool to sink. The Earth simply doesn't move like that. It is far more likely that there was something buried below the pool when it was installed and that has rotted and now the ground is sinking into that cavity.
The other possibility is The pool started leaking and the water found some underground drainage which washed all the soil into it.
The best way to confirm this or prove it is incorrect is to have a simple boring done. They bore a small hole down as deep as they need to go to see what is in the soil beneath the depression. You will need this information for a proper fix and to get the correct amount of money from the lawsuit if it comes to that.
Personally I would go after the home inspector as well. That is their whole job to point out possible catastrophes like this and make you aware of them. Granted he has clause in there that says he's not responsible for the swimming pool and I could see where he would not be responsible for things like plumbing leaks or plaster issues or things beyond his scope. But I'm surprised he didn't fall in the pool when he walked by the sunken corner, if he even bothered to walk around the pool. Somebody who is supposed to look for problems should certainly have spotted that low corner.
One more note on the competency of the home inspector. The patio is not part of the pool. If there were no pool there and there was a huge dip in an existing brick patio I would think that would fall under his scope of work.
You have the original receipt for the pool?
Is the original builder still in business where you can ask them about the pool?
Did the sellers give you a copy of an estimate to repair the pool?
No they didn’t give an estimate copy, they never told me about it and deny they know about it. My neighbor told me that had it estimated.
the original builder sold the business so it’s not the original builder but another using the same name. I could see if they have any more information.
Yes I have a receipt for the pool.
It was quite common to do an inground for 20k back then with a concrete deck. Material was really cheap theres a ton of 20yo pools around me that were under 20k when built.
Problem with a whole new pool is it costs more. You would think having a hole helps but it doesnt. Anything mew would have to be bigger than what you have the walls have to sit on virgin ground otherwise theres engineering and site work involved. You can redesign that pool and make it look great. When they rip the corner out and redo it change to steel liner over stairs amd use cantilever coping. Either pour coping or use pavers. That and a new liner and deck and pool is totally different than what you have now. You need to check NY laws on disclosure. Here in NJ its lawyers fees on top of the undisclosed damage. The average lawyer would jump on this for a contingency case
Problem with a whole new pool is it costs more. You would think having a hole helps but it doesnt. Anything mew would have to be bigger than what you have the walls have to sit on virgin ground otherwise theres engineering and site work involved. You can redesign that pool and make it look great. When they rip the corner out and redo it change to steel liner over stairs amd use cantilever coping. Either pour coping or use pavers. That and a new liner and deck and pool is totally different than what you have now. You need to check NY laws on disclosure. Here in NJ its lawyers fees on top of the undisclosed damage. The average lawyer would jump on this for a contingency case
Update: called about 10 attorneys and maybe spoke to about 5 directly. We’ve either been told we have no case or they’re not interested albeit a few want money upfront to start it. I think my best move is to get a retaining wall for myself to at least stop the sinking or slow it down considerably before the pool is a complete fill in. Thanks everyone for your help, concern, and opinions. You’ve all helped me push this issue further than I probably would have on my own. If there’s anything else I’ll be sure to post it here should anyone in the future have a similar issue to deal with.
BowserB
Silver Supporter
- Jul 29, 2018
- 777
- Pool Size
- 15000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Poolsnotmygame, I feel for your situation. Starting to resemble the 1948 Cary Grant movie, "Mr. Blandings Builds His Dreamhouse." Mood lightening aside, I am astounded that New York apparently is so lacking in seller disclosure laws. Even down here in Texas, the Texas Property Code Section 5.008 puts severe liability on sellers, and even listing agents, for not disclosing everything about a property. When we sold our house three years ago, my agent really grilled us on everything. No matter how big, how small, how currently irrelevant, he said, we must disclose. Here's an example situation he sent me.
"Imagine that you sell your suburban home outside of Dallas, and neglect to mention on your disclosure form that there is a massive termite infestation eating away at the base of the home. You had treated the termites previously, and managed to keep them at bay just long enough to unload the home. The buyer closes on the home. Inevitably, the buyer discovers the issue and realizes that the cost of exterminating the critters and remediating the foundation of the house will be substantial. The buyer might sue you for breach of contract or fraud."
Surely New York has similar laws.
"Imagine that you sell your suburban home outside of Dallas, and neglect to mention on your disclosure form that there is a massive termite infestation eating away at the base of the home. You had treated the termites previously, and managed to keep them at bay just long enough to unload the home. The buyer closes on the home. Inevitably, the buyer discovers the issue and realizes that the cost of exterminating the critters and remediating the foundation of the house will be substantial. The buyer might sue you for breach of contract or fraud."
Surely New York has similar laws.
- Jul 21, 2013
- 52,486
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Nope. My son recently bought a house in LI, NY. I was surprised at the lack of required disclosure compared to NJ.
Ny does not require many disclosures, and to boot, every seller pays (I think $500?) a fine at closing to the buyer to absolve them of missing any disclosures. You are buying as is, unless you find a graveyard that the owners knew about under that retaining wall, you will most likely get nothing from them.
This. They signed a disclosure agreement which is a $500 fee so that the seller doesn’t have to disclose anything to you. Our closing lawyer suggested this could fall differently under law into fraud but attorneys who actually handle this type of thing are really not excited to take the case if they want to at all. Don’t buy in NY guys. I can’t help but imagine the scenario later where I’d want to sell this house and lose a substantial amount in the sale of the home because they got an actual pool inspector who found the issue. I can’t pawn it off to some other couple like the other owners did. Here I thought they were excited to set a young couple up with the home like they were, only $ signs matter in the end.
Honestly, you should have noticed this. If they went out of their way to hide it they are ****** people but at the end of the day, you, your agent, or your inspector should have caught it. We found termite damage and required it be fixed and exterminated. I had the inspector come back at my expense. He refused to sign off on it officially but told me it was fine. I bought and found more damage that the owner hid by laminating fresh wood over damaged sills. Whenever I get their old mail I just throw it out now.
I’m sure you could sue for false inducement or some other fraud but good luck. Maybe go small claims and just get $3K or whatever the max is just to get something. You can always threaten to sue and give them a shot clock to settle just to see what happens.
anyway I’d say this looks like a loss to me.
I’m sure you could sue for false inducement or some other fraud but good luck. Maybe go small claims and just get $3K or whatever the max is just to get something. You can always threaten to sue and give them a shot clock to settle just to see what happens.
anyway I’d say this looks like a loss to me.
It stinks that buying a house is such a learning experience when so much money is involved. And as you found out you can’t rely on anyone. Good luck.
This thread may be dead but just trying to keep the info here. I had an inspector come and he feels strongly I just have a leak which is actually washing the soil away and is likely to blame for the retaining wall falling behind me. He also feels the retaining wall isn’t doing much in the way of keep my pool intact. I put a piece of painters tape level to the pool and had the filter run 24/7 for 36 hours before I check the level. I had an algae bloom so I’m slamming. Over that time I lost about 1/4” or so in a 40k gallon pool. I read it’s a normal amount but wanted to add this to here with all you pool experts.
That is terrible news that you have found no legal recourse from such a obvious deception. Perhaps a letter to the Attorney General?
I do not think a leak from your pool would affect the entire retaining wall like that. It would have affected a section of the wall not the entire wall. Those large trees or shrubs roots were the most likely culprit for the damage to retaining wall.
You have large voids under your pool as a result of buried demo or stumps. Just my humble opinion...
I do not think a leak from your pool would affect the entire retaining wall like that. It would have affected a section of the wall not the entire wall. Those large trees or shrubs roots were the most likely culprit for the damage to retaining wall.
You have large voids under your pool as a result of buried demo or stumps. Just my humble opinion...
Do a bucket method water loss test. It’s Way more accurate to determine Evap loss Vs. leaks.
A quarter inch is normal evaporation. Is it possible you have valves that you adjusted to close a main drain for example, and there could be a leak that's not leaking now because of it?
Overall I agree that something organic has decomposed as is sinking that corner
Overall I agree that something organic has decomposed as is sinking that corner
- Jun 7, 2017
- 9,058
- Pool Size
- 29000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Jandy Aquapure 1400
I think the seller's agent knew about this and had a fiduciary duty to disclose it. I would contact the agent's real estate commission and file a formal complaint. Might not go anywhere, but it might.
- Nov 12, 2017
- 11,850
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
I find it shocking that NY doesn't protect home buyers any better. But if this sale was indeed some form of as is, then so be it. That doesn't let the home inspector off the hook, though, IMO. He can't claim or site a disclaimer in his contract that addresses inspecting the pool as an out. Look at the first picture posted. That fence post on the right is a good 8" lower than the one to the left. You don't even have to put a level on it to see that. Look at the fence line relative to the white building behind it. Plain as day. It would be obvious to anyone, seller, buyer, both realtors and certainly a professional home inspector that the back yard was sinking. That has nothing to do with inspecting a pool, whether the pool caused that or not.
Point is, find out the statute of limitations for your home inspector's liability for this failure of his, and if that hasn't passed, then seek restitution from him. Did no lawyer suggest this course of action? You contracted him to identify deficiencies in the property. That deficiency was not hidden from view in any way. He breeched the contract.
Point is, find out the statute of limitations for your home inspector's liability for this failure of his, and if that hasn't passed, then seek restitution from him. Did no lawyer suggest this course of action? You contracted him to identify deficiencies in the property. That deficiency was not hidden from view in any way. He breeched the contract.
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