Skimmer sinking. Neighbors retaining wall fell.

JamesW

TFP Expert
Mar 2, 2011
19,736
It probably wouldn't take anything more than a demand letter from your attorney because they know that you can prove that they knew.

They know that there are 10 people who would say they knew and all it would take is one person to win in court.

Call their agent and ask them straight out if they (agent) were aware of the problem.

Call the builder and ask if the seller consulted with them about the issue. They're probably going to be honest if you ask them directly.

Was the pool covered at the time you inspected the house?

Why wasn't this noticed during the walkthrough or inspection?

Did you get a house or pool inspection?
 
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Poolsnotmygame

Well-known member
Apr 25, 2019
64
Massapequa, NY
It probably wouldn't take anything more than a demand letter from your attorney because they know that you can prove that they knew.

They know that there are 10 people who would say they knew and all it would take is one person to win in court.

Call their agent and ask them straight out if they (agent) were aware of the problem.

Call the builder and ask if the seller consulted with them about the issue. They're probably going to be honest if you ask them directly.

Was the pool covered at the time you inspected the house?

Why wasn't this noticed during the walkthrough or inspection?

Did you get a house or pool inspection?
The pool was covered for the last walk thru. We were told by my home inspector that he’s not a pool inspector but it looked good here’s a page from the inspection about it. I’m honestly surprised that he did miss it.
 

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JJ_Tex

Bronze Supporter
Jul 17, 2019
1,298
Prosper, TX (DFW)
The pool was covered for the last walk thru. We were told by my home inspector that he’s not a pool inspector but it looked good here’s a page from the inspection about it. I’m honestly surprised that he did miss it.
Wait a second, in that picture the pool floats just happen to be in the corner with the issue. Is that also something covering the decking where the crack is?!?!? I would save that picture as "Exhibit A".
 

JamesW

TFP Expert
Mar 2, 2011
19,736
Those floats were definitely put there to conceal the difference.

The owner definitely knew and wants to act like they didn't know.

I would email the sellers and ask them directly if they knew about the problem.

I doubt that they would go on record in writing and deny it when they know that you can prove differently.

I would consult with an attorney to get them to pay.

It's not fair for you to get stuck with this.
 
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darinclifton

Active member
Jun 2, 2019
30
St. Louis
How far away is the pool from the back fence? Picture doesn't really show. what is the deepest part of the pool? How far is the retaining wall from the fence and what is the elevation change from the pool deck to the top of the old wall? How tall was the retaining wall, All approximates
 

JamesW

TFP Expert
Mar 2, 2011
19,736
In my opinion, the only way to really fix this is to remove everything, install a retaining wall and any other engineering required by the engineers and then reinstall the pool.

In my opinion, it's going to be at least $100,000.00.
 
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Poolsnotmygame

Well-known member
Apr 25, 2019
64
Massapequa, NY
How far away is the pool from the back fence? Picture doesn't really show. what is the deepest part of the pool? How far is the retaining wall from the fence and what is the elevation change from the pool deck to the top of the old wall? How tall was the retaining wall, All approximates
The pool is about 4 feet from the back fence and immediately drops down 5 or 6 feet to the neighbors yard where the retaining wall is. Whoever installed the pool was scam artist I think. Retaining wall looks to be about 4 feet tall. Retaining wall is about 4 or 5 feet from the fence line.
 

Poolsnotmygame

Well-known member
Apr 25, 2019
64
Massapequa, NY
Those floats were definitely put there to conceal the difference.

The owner definitely knew and wants to act like they didn't know.

I would email the sellers and ask them directly if they knew about the problem.

I doubt that they would go on record in writing and deny it when they know that you can prove differently.

I would consult with an attorney to get them to pay.

It's not fair for you to get stuck with this.
That’s some shifty business. I could consult with an attorney soon. We’ll see where the estimates takes us.
 

jimmythegreek

TFP Expert
Bronze Supporter
In The Industry
Aug 10, 2017
2,626
Morris Cnty NJ
I dont do NY, with how busy we are with covid demand its next years work already. That is a serious mess. You have a great case for legal recourse. They knew amd clearly hid the sinking corner. If it wasn't disclosed they are on the hook. I think NY law entitles you to attorney fees as well I'd bet a lawyer would take this on based on contingency of settlement payment.
For a steel wall pool it's a big repair honestly. That would take my crew anout 2 weeks. You have to remove all coping and pavers and lose the newer liner too. Dig behind the walls to get to the collar. Its obviously either missing of poorly done thin concrete that broke off and let that corner sink. The wall panels would be removed and floor cut back. New base and level then re attach wall panels, new concrete collar, patch floor. Backfill, compact, set coping and pavers then hang liner and fill. That is best case scenario hoping you dont hit plumbing or electrical doing the repair amd the coping/pavers are reusable otherwise a patch will be obvious. And that's counting on reusing the existing pool frame if it's not tweaked or rusted out.
All this is after fence removal and building a new engineered wall that is stamped off by a licensed PE. That's a job itself then reinstall fence. That's a huge repair overall 40k wouldn't cover it. More than half would just be the wall with the tight access. Go after the previous owners dont let them get away with it
 

jgofnj

Well-known member
May 28, 2013
204
Hillsborough, NJ
What street do you live on. I have family members who lived in massapequa for over 30. They moved to a 50 plus about 3 months ago. Slim chance but maybe they know the previous owners.
 

Poolsnotmygame

Well-known member
Apr 25, 2019
64
Massapequa, NY
I dont do NY, with how busy we are with covid demand its next years work already. That is a serious mess. You have a great case for legal recourse. They knew amd clearly hid the sinking corner. If it wasn't disclosed they are on the hook. I think NY law entitles you to attorney fees as well I'd bet a lawyer would take this on based on contingency of settlement payment.
For a steel wall pool it's a big repair honestly. That would take my crew anout 2 weeks. You have to remove all coping and pavers and lose the newer liner too. Dig behind the walls to get to the collar. Its obviously either missing of poorly done thin concrete that broke off and let that corner sink. The wall panels would be removed and floor cut back. New base and level then re attach wall panels, new concrete collar, patch floor. Backfill, compact, set coping and pavers then hang liner and fill. That is best case scenario hoping you dont hit plumbing or electrical doing the repair amd the coping/pavers are reusable otherwise a patch will be obvious. And that's counting on reusing the existing pool frame if it's not tweaked or rusted out.
All this is after fence removal and building a new engineered wall that is stamped off by a licensed PE. That's a job itself then reinstall fence. That's a huge repair overall 40k wouldn't cover it. More than half would just be the wall with the tight access. Go after the previous owners dont let them get away with it
Wow this is truly depressing.
 

Poolsnotmygame

Well-known member
Apr 25, 2019
64
Massapequa, NY
It's one thing to not disclose something, but when they deliberately conceal the problem, that's a whole new level.
New game plan. See what a lawyer says. I really didn’t want to be that person but if it’s this big of a problem and no way around it, I even excused the fact they never mentioned there was asbestos tiles in the house. Just thought I’d drop that dime now too.
 
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darinclifton

Active member
Jun 2, 2019
30
St. Louis
The pool is about 4 feet from the back fence and immediately drops down 5 or 6 feet to the neighbors yard where the retaining wall is. Whoever installed the pool was scam artist I think. Retaining wall looks to be about 4 feet tall. Retaining wall is about 4 or 5 feet from the fence line.
You need to look for a local civil engineer. (and attorney) With out knowing the exact soils condition, with the parameters you have and assuming the pool is 5'6 in the deep end, the load path is outside the existing earth and most likely will fail completely at some point. This can be Somewhat verified by when the retaining wall started to fail and knowing if the retaining wall is failing from the top to the bottom, normally a retaining will fail or buckle vertically but based on your situation it will start failing at the top horizontally.

A huge thing that will exacerbate this problem is if you have a plumbing leek, that will accelerate the failure. Unfortunately as the earth yields the chance that a plumbing leek will occur becomes greater and and thus will accelerate the failure. Fun Right!

Another thing I would do is go to your local building department and ask to see the permit for the project. Just to verify that they building authority signed off on the project. Given the situation any building department worth a D&mm should have asked for engineering for the install at the first inspection!
 

markayash

Gold Supporter
Mar 21, 2016
2,088
Marietta Ga
Sad part is like my dad taught be, can't get blood from a turnip. If that guy doesn't have any money who knows.
I can relate, my wife was in a bad car wreck and I refused to call a lawyer ( too many car wreck lawyers on tv ) but after 3 months of run around I had to.
 
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Jimrahbe

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 7, 2014
18,239
Bedford, TX
OK guys... Let's keep in mind this is a pool forum and not a law or lawyers forum.. We've already told the OP to talk with a lawyer about 25 times.. That is now up to him..

Let's stick to pools, and structure and repair actions... or move along..

Thanks,

Jim R.
 

Poolsnotmygame

Well-known member
Apr 25, 2019
64
Massapequa, NY
I dont do NY, with how busy we are with covid demand its next years work already. That is a serious mess. You have a great case for legal recourse. They knew amd clearly hid the sinking corner. If it wasn't disclosed they are on the hook. I think NY law entitles you to attorney fees as well I'd bet a lawyer would take this on based on contingency of settlement payment.
For a steel wall pool it's a big repair honestly. That would take my crew anout 2 weeks. You have to remove all coping and pavers and lose the newer liner too. Dig behind the walls to get to the collar. Its obviously either missing of poorly done thin concrete that broke off and let that corner sink. The wall panels would be removed and floor cut back. New base and level then re attach wall panels, new concrete collar, patch floor. Backfill, compact, set coping and pavers then hang liner and fill. That is best case scenario hoping you dont hit plumbing or electrical doing the repair amd the coping/pavers are reusable otherwise a patch will be obvious. And that's counting on reusing the existing pool frame if it's not tweaked or rusted out.
All this is after fence removal and building a new engineered wall that is stamped off by a licensed PE. That's a job itself then reinstall fence. That's a huge repair overall 40k wouldn't cover it. More than half would just be the wall with the tight access. Go after the previous owners dont let them get away with it
So I had one masonary come for an estimate (best I could do). Estimates $5k to build a retaining wall on my property by lifting the pavers digging down and then redoing the pavers. Saying this will give me another 10 years on the pool. This doesn’t lift the skimmer or completely solve the problem just slows it down.
Thoughts?