Skimmer not working as well as I would like

[Redsurprise]

So awhile back I adjusted my skimmer so it had more suction, but it still isn’t skimming as well as I would like. Can someone recommend how I should adjust my levers? There are 2 vacuum and skimmer. There isn’t a separate one for main drain.

It could also be partly due to my water level. Auto leveler doesn’t work right and waiting for PB to replace. I have to keep manually adding water with hose every now and again.
Photos attached for reference.
Right lever is skimmer, left is vacuum.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Red,

As a test, rotate the handle of the Vac valve so that it points to the Main Drain pipe.. This will shut off the Vac and the main drain.
Then point the handle of the Skimmer valve straight down.. This will fully open the main drain.. Should be.. Skimmer... oops...

If the skimmer does not work with the valves set like above, then the problem is not a valve position.

What speed is your pump running.. You have smaller VS pump, so you may have to run faster..

Do you have a heater??

When was the last time you cleaned your filter??

It is hard for me to tell about the water level, but generally, the lower the water the better a skimmer works, and the higher the water, the less skimming there will be. Ideally, the water level should be in the center of your tile line.

I can see your weir door standing straight up... The weir door floats up and down with the water level.. If the water level is low, the weir door should be laying down.. If the water level if really high, then the weir door would vertical like in your pic.. If I were in your shoes, I would manually move the weir door, and make sure it moves freely and floats with the water level.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Newdude]

I can see your weir door standing straight up... The weir door floats up and down with the water level.. If the water level is low, the weir door should be laying down

+1. It's stuck 'up' and most of the pump water is being pulled from the main drain and vac line.

 

[Redsurprise]

+1. It's stuck 'up' and most of the pump water is being pulled from the main drain and vac line.

The weir door was up because the pump was off when I took the photo. When I did tests turning the main drain and vaccum, the skimmer is working fine and lots of spinning action. Put two valves back to were they were before or almost with more pull on skimmer and the vaccum won’t move. I even then tried to turn off skimmer completely and put vacuum on full open and it still doesn’t move. Any suggestions ?

 

[Redsurprise]

Well I searched in forums for similar issue and took apart the tubing to see if something clogged and looked at the vac itself. Nothing seemed amiss , then put back in pool and turned pump on high with skimmer shut off and it started moving fast. What’s the best way to adjust the vac for the suitable Rpm’s. I turned the valves back to were they were previously and vac not moving again . Not sure what to do. Could use some help with how to adjust the valves to get it to skim well and vac move. Previously the vac would move as long as pump was on 50% or more .

Also, can I adjust the skimmer and vac valves while pump is on?

 

[Jimrahbe]

Red,

Maybe the problem is what you are expecting..

You really don't need a lot of "lots of spinning action" for your skimmers to work... You should throw about 6 ping pong balls in the pool and come back in half an hour and see if they are in the skimmer..

The problem you are having is just one reason I am not a fan of suction side cleaners,, They work better when they can be turn on and off by an automation system and not running 24/7.

How high is the water level?

I see no problem at all adjusting your valves with the pump running.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Redsurprise]

The water level is a little less than half way up the tile . It is maybe a 1/4-1/3 up the tile.

My bigger issue right now is my cleaner isn’t working moving much at all . Only got it to work by turning off the skimmer and giving all juice to cleaner. When previously it was working fine

 

[Jimrahbe]

Red,

I assume after the 'test' you put the valve back to where they were...

What is your filter pressure?

When was the last time you cleaned it?

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Redsurprise]

Yes. I turned them back to where they were. I can check the pressure later when I get home from work. It I wasn’t high when I looked at it yesterday and filter has never been cleaned yet. Pool is less than 3 mo old.

 

[Redsurprise]

Red,

I assume after the 'test' you put the valve back to where they were...

What is your filter pressure?

When was the last time you cleaned it?

Thanks,

Jim R.

So I checked the filter pressure and it is like 5.
Photo attached.


I also took apart the aquqnaut per the trouble shooting directions to see if somehow something was caught in there and it was fine. Checked all the tubes to the cleaner too.

The only way I can get the vacuum to move now is to have the skimmer closed and the the vacuum suction all the way open. Previously that wasn’t the case . Also , with skimmer closed, vacuum lever fully open and , the rpms of the vacuum is only 9 when I think it should be around 13.

Anyone have any thoughts on what could be wrong?

 

[proavia]

Increase the water level in the pool so it is 1/2 way up the skimmer throat.

Chances are your 1.85 HP pump won't be able to effectively run the skimmer AND the vac at the same time at low pump speeds. 50% pump speed about 1750 RPM. Fine for skimmer only, but the vac probably isn't going to perform well.

You don't need the main drain open at all.

Turn both the vac and skimmer valve handles so the handle points to the right. This effectively shuts off flow from the main drain and the vac - pulling water only from the skimmer.

If the Hayward valves operate similar to the Jandy brand valves, you should not be able to rotate the valve handles so either faces left as this would shut off flow to the pump in certain circumstances and dead head the pump. The side opposite the handle points to what is off (or partially off).

Turn the pump speed up to 75% to 100%. Is the skimming action sufficient?
If so, rotate the skimmer valve handle CLOCKWISE maybe 45 degrees. This will keep the skimmer fully on and the vac on about 1/2 way.

If both skimmer and vac are operating well, try reducing the pump percentage in 5% increments until the vac and/or skimmer aren't doing what you want - then increase pump percentage 5% to 10%.

I'd seriously consider changing the pump from percentage to RPM. I think this let's you better fine tune the pump speed for what you need the pump to do and provides a definitive RPM for that function you are running.

One other thing to check - with pump off and pump CB off - check the pump impeller to be sure nothing is jammed in it. You can usually check the impeller by removing the pump lid and basket, then sticking your finger in and feel around for anything and also spin the impeller. BE SURE ALL POWER IS REMOVED FIRST.

 

[wireform]

Red,
As you said pool is 3 months old and you need to be sure the filter isn't packed up from the construction dust due to the finish and it may very well be part of the problem. The psi reading is relative to the pump speed and what your starting clean pressure is. You mentioned it got stronger and too fast when the valves were closed therefore you'll have to find the happy medium. If the filter is good to go I'd recommend you shut off the main drain completely while robot use and then play with the skimmer side of the valve so you have the skimmer action dialed in only by your satisfactory robot outcome. Less skimmer = more vacuum and more skimmer = less vacuum.

 

[Redsurprise]

Red,
As you said pool is 3 months old and you need to be sure the filter isn't packed up from the construction dust due to the finish and it may very well be part of the problem. The psi reading is relative to the pump speed and what your starting clean pressure is. You mentioned it got stronger and too fast when the valves were closed therefore you'll have to find the happy medium. If the filter is good to go I'd recommend you shut off the main drain completely while robot use and then play with the skimmer side of the valve so you have the skimmer action dialed in only by your satisfactory robot outcome. Less skimmer = more vacuum and more skimmer = less vacuum.

The vacuum got faster when I completely turned off the skimmer (skimmer handle pointing straight up and vac straight down and pump on 100%. But even then I wouldn’t say it was too fast. Vacuum wheel RPMs were less than the 11-14 rpms recommended for adequate cleaning (only counted about 9).

I am going to try check the filter and clean it in a day or so. I have never done so I need to watch a video on how to do it. Or i might see if I can hire a a pool company to show me how to do it and look at my cleaner and settings.
I have friends who have pools, but sadly they all leave their pools up to a pool service to do everything so they are of no help. Any there any far west valley of Phoenix Metro TFP forum members?

 

[Redsurprise]

Increase the water level in the pool so it is 1/2 way up the skimmer throat.

Chances are your 1.85 HP pump won't be able to effectively run the skimmer AND the vac at the same time at low pump speeds. 50% pump speed about 1750 RPM. Fine for skimmer only, but the vac probably isn't going to perform well.

You don't need the main drain open at all.

Turn both the vac and skimmer valve handles so the handle points to the right. This effectively shuts off flow from the main drain and the vac - pulling water only from the skimmer.

If the Hayward valves operate similar to the Jandy brand valves, you should not be able to rotate the valve handles so either faces left as this would shut off flow to the pump in certain circumstances and dead head the pump. The side opposite the handle points to what is off (or partially off).

Turn the pump speed up to 75% to 100%. Is the skimming action sufficient?
If so, rotate the skimmer valve handle CLOCKWISE maybe 45 degrees. This will keep the skimmer fully on and the vac on about 1/2 way.

If both skimmer and vac are operating well, try reducing the pump percentage in 5% increments until the vac and/or skimmer aren't doing what you want - then increase pump percentage 5% to 10%.

I'd seriously consider changing the pump from percentage to RPM. I think this let's you better fine tune the pump speed for what you need the pump to do and provides a definitive RPM for that function you are running.

One other thing to check - with pump off and pump CB off - check the pump impeller to be sure nothing is jammed in it. You can usually check the impeller by removing the pump lid and basket, then sticking your finger in and feel around for anything and also spin the impeller. BE SURE ALL POWER IS REMOVED FIRST.

With pump at 50% my cleaner has never worked, but it would work when it was at 75% or 100%. Recently I could only get it to work with pump at 100% and skimmer in off position.

I will try turning both vac and skimmer handles to the right . You recommend staring at the 3 o’clock position and then adjust the skimmer further?

on this forum mentioned putting an actuator on my cleaner handle so I can have my Omni automation system turn it off completely when not needing to clean. If the vaccum handle is off, what happens to the main drain? I know there is a fail safe so I can’t have all three (skimmer, vac and main drain) off at same time . That is why I guess there is no main drain handle. I am not sure how to turn the main drain off since there isn’t a handle for it.

But I will try your suggestions and see.

 

[wireform]

. I am not sure how to turn the main drain off since there isn’t a handle for it.

But I will try your suggestions and see.

In post #1 picture #1 you have the vacuum valve in perfect view. By having the vacuum valve handle @ the 3 o'clock position will make the main drain dead/off. Then the next valve (skimmer) will determine how much flow goes to the vacuum pipe and how much goes to the skimmer pipe.

 

[Redsurprise]

so at what clock positions do you recommend I put the two valves?

I am not sure understand the drawings.

If I have vac valve at 3’oclock position, it turns off the main drain, right? If both valves are at 3 o’clock what percent of output are the vac and skimmer at?

 

[wireform]

If the right valve has the handle at 3 o'clock position then the vacuum port is closed and all suction goes to the skimmer that's why it's now at the 50/50 setting.

 

[Redsurprise]

Ok. If the skimmer handle is like at the 5 or 6’ o’clock position what percent is going to each? I guess that is what I am not sure about.

Today I have almost no skimmer and vacuum won’t move . I tried turning off the main drain (vacuum handle at 3’oclock) and skimmer handle at various positions and nothing .

Vaccum will move slowly on medium with vac handle at 6 o’clock and skimmer at 12. But that isn’t good as I don’t have any skimmer action.

I just put skimmer handle ar 1 or 2 o’oclock with vac handle still at 6 o’oclock and then there was both skimming action and movement of the vac, but vac is still too slow even on high (6 or 7rpms).

With vac handle at 3 o’o’clock and the skimmer handle at 1 , there is decent skimmer action but vac doesn’t move. At this position, aren’t they both (vac and skimmer) getting 50/50?

I am going to try to check filter in a couple of days when I can do so during day and not before or after a 13 hour shift at hospital. Maybe that is the whole problem, but If anyone has specific suggestions on where to try to set my handles, I would appreciate it.

This pool maintenance is getting to be too for me, but I want to try to figure this out so I can take care of the basic maintenance and chemicals myself.

 

[proavia]

The valve handle is exactly opposite the diverter plate in the valve.
So if the handle is at 6 o'clock, there is a 50/50 chance to pull equally from both feed lines.
I used the word "chance" as there are additional factors involved with the plumbing - but it's basically 50/50 to each port.

 

[proavia]

Put the vac handle at or close to 3 - because opposite is where the diverter plate is and this will close off the main drain. You really don't need to pull any from the main drain.

For the skimmer handle, try putting the handle between 1 and 2 o'clock (diverter plate at 7-8 o'clock). Adjust it to the skimmer and vac needs. Only you will know where that is and what pump speed to run.

Another option may be to run with the skimmer full open and the vac full off for the majority of the pump run time (and while your're at work). Then, after you get home, set the valves to allow the vac to be on for 2-3 hours to dlean the floor.

Figure out what works best for you. Don't over think it, jist set it to do what you need it to do.

Clean the filter when you have time.