Side suction and bottom drain problems....I give up.

[briggss3]

What is this contraption and is it why my suction cleaner (polaris maxx) won't operate? No matter the position on the jandy valve, there is little to no suction produced on the side port. This in ground clean out system has water flowing through it as you can see but it's certaiy not sealed to pull a vacuum. No matter what I do it looks like it just flows water though it.

And the water flow looks like simple gravity flow out of the pool and not a true pull from the pump. The flow does not seem like it can keep up. Looks pretty much like a half empty skimmer bowl and socks air in with the water.

 

[briggss3]

Yep. Pump simply will not run on the bottom or vacuum port suction side. Gets about a gulp of water then goes dry. I suppose I could fishtail it back to see if something is in the line but I doubt it. Strainer sock was in tact and about 1/2 full of small debris. Hopefully someone has some experience with this.

 

[briggss3]

Anyone have any advice on this? I guess I can run a fish tape through the lines to confirm if there is a block in the line. The skimmer sock seems like it would have stopped anything from plugging the line though.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Steven,

I have not seen the device in your pic, but it appears to be a leaf catcher for your vac line..

If that is what it is, then for it to work it has to seal just like your pump lid has to seal, otherwise you will just suck air instead of water.

Let's see if @1poolman1 has ever seen one..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[briggss3]

Steven,

I have not seen the device in your pic, but it appears to be a leaf catcher for your vac line..

If that is what it is, then for it to work it has to seal just like your pump lid has to seal, otherwise you will just suck air instead of water.

Let's see if @1poolman1 has ever seen one..

Thanks,

Jim R.

Thanks Jim. Just talked to a local shop here and he has seen them before but has no idea how they operate. Water just seems to flow through and does not fill up like the suction bowl does on the pump. The little plunger lid that fits on top is not secure and pops off easy.

I have a builder coming out tomorrow to see if they can figure out what's up.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Steven,

Please let us know what you find out..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[1poolman1]

Thanks Jim. Just talked to a local shop here and he has seen them before but has no idea how they operate. Water just seems to flow through and does not fill up like the suction bowl does on the pump. The little plunger lid that fits on top is not secure and pops off easy.

I have a builder coming out tomorrow to see if they can figure out what's up.

They are an inground version of what are now placed inline with the suction hose for a cleaner, a leaf/debris trap to prevent clogging the pump/pipe. I forget who made them, only saw a few, and hated every one for just this reason. No one knew what they were for and seldom serviced them causing complaints.
They were also used, in various versions, with IFCS.
It looks like the O ring that is supposed to seal the lid is missing and the area where it would sit is very dirty. Get that sealed and the suction should increase.

 

[briggss3]

They are an inground version of what are now placed inline with the suction hose for a cleaner, a leaf/debris trap to prevent clogging the pump/pipe. I forget who made them, only saw a few, and hated every one for just this reason. No one knew what they were for and seldom serviced them causing complaints.
They were also used, in various versions, with IFCS.
It looks like the O ring that is supposed to seal the lid is missing and the area where it would sit is very dirty. Get that sealed and the suction should increase.

Ok. Had a local builder with 40 years experience out. He said this is a very rare contraption to see nowadays and he thinks it's made by A&A. They spent 30 to 45 minutes screwing with it and could also NOT get the device to stop overdrawing water and pulling air in. It's a bad design and is a hard plumbed into my side suction port. He suggested to bypass it and just go out the skimmer for suction vacuum. Until he looked at that and quickly determined that won't work either as the skimmer bowl also is not typical (I can post pics later next week when i am home).

At this point I am going to have to try and squeeze a 2 inch threaded pipe with union in there and try and bypass that leaf catcher bowl.

Oh...on a side note unrelated. He said they see Circupool SWGs last 1 to 2 years max (I just installed). Said I need to get a real one when this one craps out soon. I was surprised to hear that.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Steven,

We have a ton of members with CircuPool SWCGs and they very rarely report any problems.

Edit... You could just move up into this Century and get a Robot cleaner...

New EVO 614i Robot Pool Cleaner Review

About a month ago I needed a new robot pool cleaner and I contacted Margaret at Marina Pool and Spa. My initial goal was to buy another S200 "style" robot as I have been happy with them so far. Margaret suggested that I might want to look at a new line of robot cleaners that Marina is now...

www.google.com

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[wireform]

We have a ton of members with CircuPool SWCGs and they very rarely report any problems.

Oh...on a side note unrelated. He said they see Circupool SWGs last 1 to 2 years max (I just installed). Said I need to get a real one when this one craps out soon. I was surprised to hear that.

So then I must be doing something wrong that every SWCG install for a non automation system gets a circupool branded product and works as designed. I guess they build them differently for me.

 

[proavia]

It's an A&A Indeck LeafVac

These are no longer made, but parts are available online.
There are a few posts about it on TFP - one showing a successful repair of the tabs that hold "QuikLok" device in place. The indeck unit has been superceded by the LeafVac that is co-located at the equipment pad.

Clean all the mating surfaces really well. The inner lid should be providing a seal. The "QuikLok must be in place and engaged under the lock tabs. Water can be pulled from main drain, skimmer and possibly vac port into the canister. The bottom port of the canister is plumbed to the pool pump suction.

Let's see the pipes and valves on the suction side of your pump at the equipment pad.

Does your pool also have the A&A infloor cleaning system (IFCS)?

 

[briggss3]

So then I must be doing something wrong that every SWCG install for a non automation system gets a circupool branded product and works as designed. I guess they build them differently me.

I was surprised he said what he said. I went back online and saw they had issues a few years agai and redesigned the plates. I love mine so far. Bahhh humbug

 

[briggss3]

It's an A&A Indeck LeafVac

These are no longer made, but parts are available online.
There are a few posts about it on TFP - one showing a successful repair of the tabs that hold "QuikLok" device in place. The indeck unit has been superceded by the LeafVac that is co-located at the equipment pad.

Clean all the mating surfaces really well. The inner lid should be providing a seal. The "QuikLok must be in place and engaged under the lock tabs. Water can be pulled from main drain, skimmer and possibly vac port into the canister. The bottom port of the canister is plumbed to the pool pump suction.

Let's see the pipes and valves on the suction side of your pump at the equipment pad.

Does your pool also have the A&A infloor cleaning system (IFCS)?

Yes I have the infloor cleaning system. Here are the pics I took at my pump pad
Suction on the 3 way Jandy.

Discharge through the A&A manifold.

 

[briggss3]

The "QuikLok must be in place and engaged under the lock tabs.

My quicklock looks ti be broken. It's not horrible but it's also not air tight. I am going to see if a 6 inch sewer plug will work.

 

[proavia]

What happened when you adjust the suction side 3-way 180 degrees?

Careful with that sewer plug - you don't want to crack anything.
The QuikLok is the dumbell looking thing.
Clean all the parts and the top section of the LeafVac (all to way from the top edge to below where the inner lid sits.

Search the forums for indeck leaf vac and similar terms.
Also Google - A&A indeck leafvac

 

[briggss3]

What happened when you adjust the suction side 3-way 180 degrees?

Careful with that sewer plug - you don't want to crack anything.
The QuikLok is the dumbell looking thing.
Clean all the parts and the top section of the LeafVac (all to way from the top edge to below where the inner lid sits.

Search the forums for indeck leaf vac and similar terms.
Also Google - A&A indeck leafvac

Sorry....been without my phone. If I go 180 on the 3 way the pump immediately runs dry. The leaf catcher bowl overruns and can't keep.up with the suction and the lid leakes a bit. If I back off there is very little pull from the side port, certainly not even enough to move the vacuum.

The Quiklok latch down is broken. Overall the unit is seen better days but below the lid area looks fine.

Another option if I can fit it is to direct plumb a 1.5 or 2 inch screw PVC union piece in there and bypass the bowl all together. If I can make the 90 degree work on the inlet from the pool side port.

 

[briggss3]

Sorry....been without my phone. If I go 180 on the 3 way the pump immediately runs dry. The leaf catcher bowl overruns and can't keep.up with the suction and the lid leakes a bit. If I back off there is very little pull from the side port, certainly not even enough to move the vacuum.

The Quiklok latch down is broken. Overall the unit is seen better days but below the lid area looks fine.

Another option if I can fit it is to direct plumb a 1.5 or 2 inch screw PVC union piece in there and bypass the bowl all together. If I can make the 90 degree work on the inlet from the pool side port.

Now you got me looking and zooming in. It looks like there are gaps in the lid sealing area. Previous owners even tried to caulk them in. Also I pointed to the spot where the lock is broken so the lid lock won't tighten down. Not sure it's removable and repairable without messing up my poolside surface.

 

[briggss3]

Ok. I got in there today and caulked (marine adhesive below water line) all of the gaps and possible vacuum seal breaks. I cleaned everything very well. I then let the marine adhesive cure nice. Looks great.

Set the A&A lid down in there. Nice tight fit. Snug. I then pit a nice coat of silicone sealant around the edge to ensure it won't leak. Let that cure.

I then snagged the lid.lock in place. Looks tight.
Put the suction cleaner on the side port and nothing....nada. it's pulling if you put your hand there, but not strong. As soon as your hand covers the port it looses 80 to 100 % of the weak suction.

There is something else going on.

Oh....I also installed a 3HP VSP and was running it on 75%....which is way more than I need on a.12.5K pool.

I will take a bunch of pictures tomorrow of the plumbing. There are 2 floor drains, the skimmer is somehow connected to the floor drains. It's not normal design per the local builder.

 

[briggss3]

This is the sealed up A&A infloor leaf vac canister. It is fed by a 2 inch line leading to the side port suction (next pic) that does not suck. It goes through the vac canister and into the 2 inch suction going into the ground.



There are 2 bottom drains with anto suction covers on them. I have no idea how strong they pull. There is a line that connects the two



This is the skimmer. Inside the skimmer there is a return that jets across the suction ports in the bottom. The line on the right has a small jet in it and the one on the left goes out of the pool wall just below the skimmer. The wall port has an antisuction guard on it I guess since it can also contribute water to the skimmer suction side. Because this is setup this way, I can not connect my suction cleaner to the skimmer ports.



I position the 3 way valve to about 75 bottom and 25 skimmer and the punp starts to.lose prime. The water flow through the A&A is always weak. Just more of a pouring through and not a pulling through effect. Sure the pump will pull a bit if there is no resistance. The moment resistance is introduced I assume it is going to the path of least resistance and it's not through the suction cleaner.

Please I hope someone has seen this or knows what is going on.

 

[briggss3]

Anyone?