Should I worry about high phosphates when using Metal Magic?

[ned8377]

I understand that Pro Team Metal Magic breaks down into phosphates over time. Can this develop into a serious problem? Thanks.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I understand that Pro Team Metal Magic breaks down into phosphates over time. Can this develop into a serious problem? Thanks.

It depends on how you plan to sanitize your pool. If you follow the recommended FC/CYA ratio, you should be ok.

Just remember that phosphates are an algae nutrient and can make your pool water more reactive to algae blooms should the FC drop below minimum levels.

 

[Swampwoman]

Ned, its not just Metal Magic...its any HEDP sequestrant.
Are you on well?
If so, this just kinda goes with the territory.
I will be performing a couple of experiments this fall, so let me know if you're on well and a heavy sequestrant user. With metals, everything's a trade off.

I run my swg about a ppm higher than spec and have never had algae. The only possible build up issue is if it scales in your heater.

 

[ned8377]

Thanks Swampwoman. As you know, the problem is if chlorine is kept at FC/CYA ratio then I am running the risk of oxidizing the metals on to the surface again.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Thanks Swampwoman. As you know, the problem is if chlorine is kept at FC/CYA ratio then I am running the risk of oxidizing the metals on to the surface again.

If you need to run your FC/CYA ratio at the floor of or below the recommended levels in order to avoid staining, then I would suggest you add a supplemental method of sanitation.

Treating for phosphates doesn't make sense when using metal sequestrants as you're simply adding back phosphates all the time. I would suggest you use a startup and then maintenance dose of Polyquat-60 algaecide as insurance. The only caution is that you should never add both the sequestrant and the PQ-60 at the same time or else you'll create a cloudy mess.

In a perfect world, you would also have test kits for both phosphonates and quaternary ammonium compounds (Taylor has both) and then accurately measure and dose both chemicals, but that can get very costly and, obviously, very annoying to have to add additional tests.

Maintaining borates is another option as it's an algae inhibitor but it's less effective in that sense as it's primary advantage is as a high pH buffer.

 

[Swampwoman]

Ned, running at FC/CYA ratio for regular treatment when using a sequestrant shouldn't be a problem if you're adequately dosed on sequestrant. Its only SLAM Process levels you'd need to worry about restaining.

If the MM isn't keeping staining in check with full dose maintained correctly, then perhaps your metal concentration is too high, in which case you'd need to dose more or consider a partial water change, or perhaps an end-of-season oxidization and filtering removal remediation. Every metal case is a bit different and I don't recall your specifics at the moment.

But in general, its always a Sophie's choice in the world of metals But you've got to maintain TFP [fc/cya] levels.

Like Matt says, we don't really know if removing spent phosphates from heavily sequestered water is worth the trouble or not, and I am going to experiment with that this coming year to see if it makes a difference, starting in a week or two with an alum floc experiment, followed by small weekly doses of lanthanum chloride while operating in winter.

But we do know that HEDP is the most effective sequestrant, pain in the butt or not

 

[ned8377]

Thanks JoyfulNoise. Thanks for confirming what I have been considering - using Polyquat 60. It seems to be a good solution because I have been through this cycle many times. It always seems that when the chlorine starts to hold then the staining returns and that is when I have been maintaining the Metal Magic. Maybe I needed a larger dose to maintain.

 

[ned8377]

SWAMPWOMAN!!!

I'm very interested in the oxidation process and whether bringing PH up to 8.0 or higher and shocking would make it possible to flock the metal out. Also, you mention lanthanum chloride which is an ingredient in Natural Chemistry's phosphate remover. It says on the bottle that the lanthanum settles in the filter creating a layer which then enables the filter to be able to filter the phosphates out. I wonder if this would also filter out metal at the same time?

Please keep us updated on the results.