Pool Voltage
Post 1
The issue: When entering or exiting the pool through the shallow end, and you grab the railing you are feeling like you are being shocked. This is not happening anywhere else in the pool. The deep-end ladder isn't demonstrating this issue.
Info: The pool was built in 2003 and is bonded with a #8 copper wire from the pool motor, over to the four corners of the pool, hand railing anchors in the shallow end, deep end ladder anchors, pool light, and the concrete rebar; it all passed inspection. This issue has never happened until this summer, June 2021.
Voltage from the railing to the concrete is about 1.5V and railing to the water is around 1.9V. When we disconnect the ground wire to the house, the voltage drops to .0023V at the railing in the shallow end, and the shock goes away.
solar panels on the house. We had them come out to verify that there isn't a voltage leak or grounding issue on their equipment. With all of their equipment unplugged, power off, main breaker to the house turned off, we still had the voltage in the shallow end.
the power company to see if there's a load issue. They came out, performed a load test, and everything checked out.
We've taken out breakers, disconnected all of the wires for the pool motor, timer, outdoor outlets, checked the GFCI's. Nothing, absolutely freaking nothing is leading us to the source.
I'm planning on removing the railing, cleaning up the bottom section for better contact, then taking a wire brush and running it inside the anchors to see if that helps.
Post 2
I’m not sure the power company did all they could have done. Odds are it’s a problem with their system before it gets to your house. It could also be a problem with a neighbor’s well pump or phone lines in the ground. Are there wells in the area? How close are your neighbors?
When the power company said your ground rod “measured 0”, did they disconnect the wire and measure between the wire and ground rod? That can be a key piece of info as it tells you how far the power service is offset from ground near your home.
Post 3
Are you talking the main ground wire from your main electrical panel to the ground? So you turned off everything in the box, all breakers including the main breaker and the voltage was still there.. not until the ground was removed did the voltage go away?
Post 4
All of our electricity is underground for the neighborhood. We have public water, connected to sewer, and no wells in the neighborhood.
Post 5
Correct, as soon as we disconnect the ground wire that feeds to the timer and the pump, the voltage drops. Even if we turn all breakers off including the main, we still see the voltage unless we disconnect the ground coming from the house.
There isn't an extra grounding bar near the pool. The bonding connects to the pump, then the ground wire from inside the pump runs over the timer and house ground wire.
Post 7
Try this, turn off your main breaker so no power is coming into your house... Does the voltage go away?
Post 8
The voltage still remains when we turned off the main breaker in the house.
Post 15
Ground from main breaker panel to timer and pump:
Frequency: 200-350Hz
Current: 150 mV (AC) / -180 mV (DC)
Voltage: 2.4-2.5 V
Railing to concrete with the ground from the main breaker disconnected from timer and pump:
Voltage: 6 mV (AC) / -180 mV (DC)
Frequency: 60Hz
Railing to water: ~178Hz
I checked the ground bar going to the house, and I was getting 180 mV (AC) going to external ground leads going to communication connections. I doubt that's a solid test but if you're able to point me in the right direction then I'll do it.
Also, I ran a make-shift bonding wire from the pump to the railing and I had the same result with the voltage. Yes, I did disconnect the ground wire on the pump before testing the temporary wire.
Post 17
How far away is the power transformer that feeds your house?
Is your main neutral in good shape?
Post 18
Do you have a whole hose standby generator ?
Post 20
Was this jumping all over the place?
Ground from main breaker panel to timer and pump:
Frequency: 200-350Hz
Yes, this was changing every second.
How far away is the power transformer that feeds your house?
Is your main neutral in good shape?
All of our power through the neighborhood is underground. I honestly don't know how close our relay station is or where exactly it's coming from. Yes, the main neutral is in good shape and was load tested yesterday by the power company.
Do you have a whole hose standby generator ? Have seen those causing trouble....
No, we do not have a standby generator.
If you disconnect the wiring from your house to pool pump/ timer (you mentioned disconneting thd ground) the issue is no longer present?
Correct.
Post 22
Possibly a wire underground that is making contact with the earth directly or through water.
Post 24
Unfortunately, my panel is from the late 1980's; grounds and commons share the same bar
Post 25
I think that if you can get a good read on the actual signal, you might be able to figure it out.
I don't know what specific frequency to look for.
I would start with the frequencies that you have already measured.
Once you get a good signal on the oscilloscope, you can turn things on and off and watch the signal to see if it stays the same or changes as you turn things on and off.
Maybe you can try to find the signal pattern for all of the utilities that might be responsible for the stray current.
Either measure the signal or ask the utility to tell you what to expect.
Maybe you can put some sort of signal on each individual utility and then watch the oscilloscope to see if the introduced signal shows up.
Post 26
Where are you located? Is your pool seasonal or open 12 months out of the year? Where you using your pool in May that you know this began in June?
Any work done in your house or property before this started? Go around and ask your neighbors if they had work done?
Here is a thread that has been going on for 6 years trying to find the source of a tingle - A Slight Shock.
Here the voltage source was a streetlight connected to the house power line Bonding Issue In A Pool.
Post 27
I'll certainly do my best to see if anyone has had any work done. My neighbor also has an inground pool, I'll reach out to them to see if they can do some testing as well. Thank you for the links to those other threads, I'll certainly go through them.
Post 29
So what you just stated is the solar equipment was moved about with the roof work. Maybe that's where your issue is.
I had them come out to check everything. They disconnected the entire system and the voltage was still there.
Post 32
What I was just thinking. Doesn’t that tie into the main somehow.
Yes, it ties right into the main breaker. I just undid the ground connection coming from the solar equipment and had 400 mV on it.
Post 42
What is the conduit running from the meter socket to the main panel? If it's plastic, turn off the main breaker and lift the neutral coming from the meter socket. 180Hz like James said is the third harmonic and everything electronic can add to it. By lifting the neutral coming from the meter socket you are completely eliminating anything coming into you home from the power company.
Do you have any power backups on computers, TVs or anything else?
Post 43
As for the solar panels, I did find that the Riso on the inverter isn't performing correctly. The inverter maxes out at 8.8 MΩ but generally starts at 8 MΩ when the sun rises. When the electrician came out he said that they should all operate at 20 MΩ. Yeah, that's huge and I've watched it every day since; the only way to get it back up to 20 MΩ is to reboot the inverter. I called them and they did notice that the system isn't performing properly.
Post 44
I think that if you can watch the voltage, current, frequency and waveform while connecting or disconnecting different things, you should be able to see a change in all of the readings that corresponds to what you're doing when you get to the source of the stray current.
Post 46
Thank you for your knowledge and input, I greatly appreciate it. The meter and main panel butt right up against each other, no conduit. I was thinking about scheduling the power company to turn off the power to the house and removing everything coming into the panel from the meter. There aren't any battery backups in the house.
If you do this make sure they lift the neutral in the meter as well. This will eliminate any transients coming in on the neutral. Have you bonded the railing yet?
If you have not done this, another thing you can do is get a long wire and a continuity tester. attach it to the ECG coming from the house at the pump. Take the other end of the wire and the meter with you to all metal parts around the pool that should be bonded. Touch one lead to the end of the wire and the other lead to the metal parts. You should get a beep or at most very low ohms reading. This will tell you what is bonded and what is not.
Post 47
I'll need to run out to the store to get a 100' wire to do the testing around the entire pool. I haven't attempted to run a legit separate bond to the railing yet. Hopefully, within the next week, I'll be able to test that. I'm uploading videos to YouTube now to show what the oscilloscope displayed. I'll post the links once they are finished processing.
BTW, I heard back about the solar panels. They are gathering some more days, maybe 2 or 3 more days worth, but this is what they said, "System performance has jumped a little bit since the electrician rebooted the system. Need more production data to determine site visit. Possible wiring error/string out after Removal and reinstallation of solar panels."
Post 48
Videos from the oscilloscope:
House ground to pump
Concrete to the railing
Railing to pool water
Post 49
Looks like they are all about 60 hz and about 2 to 4 volts.
The next step would be to watch the signals as you connect and disconnect things or change the power draw to see if the signal changes in some way.
If you can measure the current between the two spots at the same time, that might be helpful.
Disconnecting all 3 wires from the power company while watching the signal should show some change.
The power wires can be disconnected by shutting off the main breaker, but the neutral would have to be disconnected.
Touching the main wiring should only be done by a qualified electrician.
The neutral can carry a lot of current, so don't underestimate it as not dangerous.
Post 55
Quick update: I had a power outage the other night 7/18 at 12:30 am. I ran out to the pool to take a voltage reading:
237 mV concrete to the railing
400 mV railing to the water
Power came back on within a couple of minutes by the time I got out there:
1.14 V concrete to the railing
1.57 V railing to the water
Post 60
What about isolating circuit by circuit in the main breaker panel (flip fuses) while observing the scope? Trying to see if this is a current coming from your house and finding an unexpected ground loop?
Just trying to rule out anything on a circuit. Solar should be disconnected the whole time too.
Post 81
his has to be an issue of bonding and stray current between bond and neutral. Something isn't bonded right in your pool and you are taking a stray current.
this may be of use: Stray current???
Post 101
Is the sub panel from 2008 or newer and use 4 wires from the main panel?
Did you measure the current in your pool bonding wire or just the voltage?
Post 102
It was brought to my attention that IF there is poor grounding at the poles or boxes on lets say the cable tv coming to the house and voltage is being induced to the cable. Then if it's shield is connected to the Ground bar (as it should be) in the main disconnect. It could be carrying a small voltage on the EGC throughout the house and pool area. This would also account for lifting the EGC at the sub panel and the voltage disappearing. Just more to chew on.
Post 103
Even less likely would be the water feed from the street, but it’s exactly the freak occurrence thing we are looking for. Anything that can conduct that is tied into the electric ground. Until they are ruled out at this point, anything that could carry stray current to the house is suspect
Post 104
I would like to give all of you firm handshakes because I've really enjoyed reading all of this. I can fill in a few blanks on some questions that were asked:
* The meter panel and the home electrical panel are separated by plywood.
* I found that my water meter in the basement isn't bonded

* (how the

* did this happen? Late 1980's home)
* The pool was built in 2003, the bond runs from the pool pump. It was inspected and approved by the county.
* At that time, a sub panel was not required. We have a GFCI 30 A 2-pole breaker for the pump running out to a manual timer.
I will attempt to gather some more information over the weekend
Post 108
If inductive voltage was entering through either the buried phone/TV wires which are thicker with sheaths, and grounded to a water line, the stray current could make it to the pool through an auto fill. You guys swim energized like a bird on the high voltage lines, until you touch the ladder.
Post 114
A sprinkler like line to the pool that fills it when it’s low with a boat bilge or toilet bulb water level sensor thingy
This sounds amazing to have; no, I don't have one.
Post 117
1. Can you provide me a list of the equipment being used around the pool? Is the AC motor single speed, 2 speed or Variable speed?
2. Is each electrical device bonded? (not ground wire)
3. Is each electrical device grounded?
4. Is the bond grid isolated from ground or, are the two attached by a single wire or multiple wires?
5. Is the water bonded?
6. Had you had any equipment failures or changed anything out when you noticed this shock? (prior too)
7. Are you using any type of ground rods for the pool system?
8. The ground wire that goes from inside to outside is it a straight run (main panel to sub panel outside) or does it go through multiple panels?
9. Have the GFCI breakers been tested to ensure they function properly for the pool equipment?
Post 118
I apologize for being away for a couple of days. We're getting new carpet in all of the bedrooms and about to receive my house load full of belongings that have been in storage. The joys of juggling life
@ParB @JamesW Added to the list
@NowintersinAZ I apologize, but the pool pump is running on a double pole 20 Amp breaker, not 30. The length of the line is maybe 100'.
@Hadiguy05 I honestly don't understand how the bonding failed on the anchors at the pool railing, it really doesn't make sense since it's encased in concrete.
I'll do my best to answer your questions, and I'll try to post pictures of the wiring as soon as I can.
1. Can you provide me a list of the equipment being used around the pool? Is the AC motor single speed, 2 speed or Variable speed?
Hayward Superpump 1.5HP single speed
2. Is each electrical device bonded? (not ground wire)
The bonding wire is attached to the pump and runs underground to the pool
3. Is each electrical device grounded?
Yes, the pool light and pump are grounded
4. Is the bond grid isolated from ground or, are the two attached by a single wire or multiple wires?
Would the ground going to the pump internally and having the bond attached externally on the pump qualify as attached? Would ground wires attached to the light switch connecting to the pool light qualify as attached?
5. Is the water bonded?
Yes
6. Had you had any equipment failures or changed anything out when you noticed this shock? (prior too)
No
7. Are you using any type of ground rods for the pool system?
No
8. The ground wire that goes from inside to outside is it a straight run (main panel to sub panel outside) or does it go through multiple panels?
Straight run out to the manual timer panel
9. Have the GFCI breakers been tested to ensure they function properly for the pool equipment?
Yes, all GFCI breakers have been tested
Post 125
When we disconnect the ground wire to the house, the voltage drops to .0023V at the railing in the shallow end, and the shock goes away. This is the closest point to the pool motor from where the bonding begins.
Is this the green grounding wire from the breaker panel to the pump that you are disconnecting or the house grounding wire to the earthen metal rod?
Have you tried this?
Disconnect both the grounding wire and bonding wire from the pump. Then measure the voltage from the pump motor housing to the grounding wire. There should be no potential.
Measure the voltage difference between the bonding wire and the ground wire. Again, there should be no potential.
Post 126
I don't know nearly enough about electrical to be part of this discussion, but have you tried removing the timer from the picture? like disconnect it entirely and just use that box as a junction box and see if you're still having the issue?
Post 128
It might be an underground power wire from the power company leaking voltage into the ground.
Post 129
Thank you everyone for your input. The voltage is coming from someplace on the ground bar at the main panel in the house.
When I disconnect the ground wire coming from the main panel, everything goes away.
I took apart the timer, two GFCI's, and the pool light switch to verify it wasn't anything out there. Even with all of that disconnected, the ground coming from the main panel had voltage.
I'm planning on lifting the neutral as suggested by
@JamesW and
@NowintersinAZ, hopefully soon.
Is this the green grounding wire from the breaker panel to the pump that you are disconnecting or the house grounding wire to the earthen metal rod?
Have you tried this?
Disconnect both the grounding wire and bonding wire from the pump. Then measure the voltage from the pump motor housing to the grounding wire. There should be no potential.
Measure the voltage difference between the bonding wire and the ground wire. Again, there should be no potential.
I can certainly try this. I've been disconnecting the green grounding wire from the breaker panel.
Post 130
The voltage is coming from someplace on the ground bar at the main panel in the house. When I disconnect the ground wire coming from the main panel, everything goes away
Can you lift each wire one at a time to see which one it is ? Wouldn’t that greatly narrow down the search ?
Post 131
Remove each individual ground and neutral wire, one by one? I've already turned the main breaker off and the voltage was still there; hence lifting the neutral is the next logical step.
Post 133
Yes. Each individual wire that’s on the ground/nuetral bar that’s showing the voltage. In theory only one of them has the foreign voltage and BOOM. It’s the central AC. (Or whatevs)
I can certainly give this a go. Much appreciated
Post 143
That doesn't mean the voltage is coming from the house side. That just means you are completing the circuit back to ground. Potential is relative. The house ground is connected to neutral which in turn is connected to the power co and every other home so I would consider that to be the reference potential. Everything else should be measured relative to that.
More that likely, there is voltage source near the pool that is causing the issue. Is the pool close to your neighbors and do they have landscape lighting?
Post 146
2 ways to easily check this is to pull the street coax / phone wires *and* their grounds and test the pool.
or pull the main ground / MGN at the ground rod and see if the ground round is still hot. If it is, the source is another feed / utility sharing the ground rod. If the ground rod isn’t hot, The ground wire / MGN to the panel will be hot and the source is proven inside (although still possibly ‘outside’ like the solar panels or a neighbor). So a better way to say it is to prove it onsite or offsite by one of the 2 ways listed above. If the voltage is ‘onsite’, then pull each of the nuetrals / grounds at the hot bus bar. Test each individual wire pulled and also the bar itself at each step. If it’s only one wire the bar stops being hot when that wire is pulled. If it’s multiples the bar stays hot and the pulled wire is also hot and OP keeps going to prove the 2 or 3 sources.
10 minutes tops to pull the main ground or utilities and we have a direction to zero in on.
Post 152
I think that it would be helpful to measure the current on each hot leg, the neutral and the wire going to the ground rod all at the same time to see what each shows.
The current on on one hot leg should equal the sum of the current on the other hot leg plus the neutral.
The current should be steady for the test.
Post 154
OP pulls the main ground at the panel and the trouble goes away. But it didn’t go away. He simply broke the path of travel with no knowledge of the direction of the travel.
inside at the panel he lost the ability to test for still present voltage as the ground is disconnected. He would need another ground, say a water pipe, which is not bonded to the electric as OP found. (Also providing there is no pex anywhere). So with a new ground source OP could test properly for voltage at the bus bar on the panel. If present we have proved it ‘internal’. If not we have proved it external and the next step is to test everything connected or defacto connected to the main ground rod outside using the earth as the ground side of the meter.
Post 159
That's why when I posted to lift the neutral then walk around the house and lift the bonds from the utilities one at a time, then testing. This is all a process of elimination. Things need to be eliminated with testing to narrow down the possibilities.
Post 174
The measurements I have seen have been from the railing to the deck and the railing to the water. The railing being the common factor. 4 volts RMS and 5 peak are a couple I remember.
I have also suggested a wire and continuity tester. Wire attached to the bonding lug on the motor and then carried around with the tester and testing all metal with in 5' around the pool to see what beeps and what does not. Including all metal in contact with the water.
There is also solar on the property that he has had looked into. I am still kinda stuck on this one as a possibility.
When the main breaker is shut off the voltage persists. When the power in the neighborhood goes down it goes away. So it's fairly local to the house, within the grid he is on. That's why I suggested turning off the main and lifting the neutral, then the utilities bonding. Remove the ground rod and the make sure the bonding jumper is intact and working.
Post 177
I will attempt to make a list in the thread of suggestions, tests, and results. To really hammer this down, I'll need to do most of this testing at night. I appreciate everyone's patience with testing and trying to get more information in regards to measurements.
Also, I had the panels checked again. Three wires were not connected properly, I think on the roof. I'm now receiving my rated solar production but didn't resolve our issue.
Post 179
When you said, "with all their equipment unplugged", did that mean that the inverter was powered down (i.e. panel DC disconnected from the inverters) or did you mean that the solar system was simply disconnected from the AC mains?
Also, what do you mean by "Over by the pool motor, we were seeing around 3V on the ground. "? Measured from where to where?
Post 182
When you said, "with all their equipment unplugged", did that mean that the inverter was powered down (i.e. panel DC disconnected from the inverters) or did you mean that the solar system was simply disconnected from the AC mains?
Also, what do you mean by "Over by the pool motor, we were seeing around 3V on the ground. "? Measured from where to where?
The main power switch was flipped for the inverter which directs over to the main panel, all grounds and commons inside the inverter were pulled.
3V was from the ground wire coming from the house to the pump. When I connected the leads between the pump and the house ground I measured 3V.
Post 184
If you use the house ground to test you simply reconnect the loop and see the same voltage. You need to know the direction of travel so you need a different ground to test both halves. Can you run a wire out a basement window to make your own testing ground ?
Also, if it does end up coming from the backyard, your electric come from the street IIRC but phones and CATV may be in the backyard. Do they come from the street or the back ? If either one is faulty/damaged and close to your bonding grid the current may be straying. This would certainly help explain how it gets to the pool.
Everything comes from the street and all connect on the side of the house. Phone and CATV have ground terminations off of the ground wire. Granted, I can't even see my ground rod, only the wire coming out of the dirt.
Post 187
But did they disconnect the solar panels from the inverter? Usually there is a breaker and/or disconnect between the two.
So that means that the pool water and bonding wire have a different potential than the house ground. That probably also means that the railing is not bonded to the pool. Were you the original owner of the pool? Did you take any pictures when they were building it?
Also, just to confirm, you previously said that when you cut the power to the entire house, assuming through the main service breaker, it does not change anything correct?
Click to expand...
Yes, they disconnected the panels from inside the inverter and flipped the main outdoor breaker cut-off.
It was my parent's house, which I was there when it was built in 2003. We have some pictures of the build, low resolution, but nothing up close of the bonding.
Post 188
Fast forward and one day I get so frustrated I kill the breakers and rip the wiring out of my pool light box. Lo and behold the Ground wire was cut and stuffed up into the corner. I stripped the wire, connected it properly and knock on wood never had another problem.
Post 191
Let's begin adding some data! YOUTUBE videos are linked in this post as well!


First I went out to the side with CATV, fiber, and phones grounds. Here's what I found:
7/30/2021
| A wire was connected to a screwdriver that was driven into the ground for this testing below |
| Verizon FiOS ground going to the router |
50mA
310mVDC
2.2-2.46VAC
60Hz

| Old phone line ground |
115mVAC
| Coax from FiOS router leading into the house |

-38VDC
16VAC
60Hz
-100mA DC
880mA AC
| Coax Unplugged |


Unplugged from house coax: 22VAC
Unplugged from the house and FiOS router: 2.2VAC (How the heck does that happen?)
Unplugged without power: 843mVAC
Connected back to coax back into the house: 5.9VAC
All coax reconnected: 4.2VAC
-30 through -50mVDC
| Measurements from the screwdriver to house ground |
120mA AC
30mA DC
60Hz
465mVDC
2.3-2.9VAC
Now on to the pool....
The point of failure



| Pool without house-ground connected |
| Railing to water |
113mVDC
119mVAC
-150mA DC
0A AC
60Hz (changed)
| Railing to deck |
9mVAC
| Water to deck |
173mVAC
-147mVDC
| Screwdriver in-ground connected to bonding wire, house-ground disconnected, and pump off |
| Water to deck |
130mVAC
-137mVDC
| Railing to deck |
0VAC
-325mVDC
| Railing to water |
129mVAC
0Hz all
266mVDC
Screw driver in the ground w/ wire attached - No power | Water to Railing
| Railing to water *deep-end* |
-214mVDC
| Screwdriver wire connected to bonding wire, checking measurements over to exterior of pump ground screw (pump off) |
17mVAC
Frequency went up and down from 0 to 45 but mostly stayed at 0Hz
0VDC
-190mA DC
0A AC
| House ground over to timer (no bonding wires attached to pump) |
500mVAC
60Hz
Bonding wire detached | No power | Testing voltage at timer
| House ground over to pump (no bonding attached) |
1.32VAC
60Hz
| Checking the neutral wire inside the pump motor encasement |
Checking neutral wire stashed inside pump motor housing for voltage
| House ground attached, ground wire going to screwdriver in the yard |
Powered on but only with screwdriver with ground wire | DC Voltage
| Railing to water |
123mVAC
| Railing to deck |
0VAC
| Deck to water |
120mVAC
| Railing to water & water to deck |
560mVDC
200-450Hz all over the place
| Everything reconnected like normal |
Reconnected the bonding wire to the pump exterior and this happened
| Railing to water |
3.4VAC
| Changed common lead on oscilloscope and multimeter to screwdriver wire in the ground |
260mVAC
60Hz
430mVDC
-190mA DC
0A AC
| Water to deck |
434mVDC
320mVAC
I probably missed a valuable pointer someplace in our book. There's a ton more to dig into because I mean, we do have 10 pages worth of suggestions and ideas to go off of. Thanks again everyone
Post 192
First, it can’t be the Fios, in any capacity so that’s one thing off the list for good. The only thing coming from the street is a glass tube wrapped in rubber. It has nothing to conduct. The powered equipment could certainly fail, but they would have turned off with the main breaker and the trouble would have disappeared.
Post 196
The Comcast coax is hanging disconnected under telecommunications. FiOS is the only active coax to test.
If it’s swinging in the breeze and not attached to a splitter with a ground then Comcast is out as well.
Post 197
So, Fios and Comcast are out. It hit me at 3 AM that solar is out too. Solar checks two of the 3 boxes but misses the 3rd. It works when the main breaker is tripped. (Check). And when the Electric Co cuts the feed to the house (check).
It would not stop if the Electric Co cut the whole streets power. (No check).
The Verizon Copper interface appears to be mounted to the electric pipe. Does it swing in the breeze or did some ***Wahoo**** actually screw it into the electric’s PVC ??????? Open it to see. Then remove any grounds from inside the interface. The most suspect one if there is more than one is the one attached to the buried wire
Post 198
Here is what I think is happening. When the ground is separated from the bonding wire, the pool and railing are in isolation and at the same potential. Much like a lineman in a insulated cherry picker grabbing on to a high power line, he won't get shocked. It doesn't matter if they are at a potential higher than the house ground/neutral, everything is at the same potential so no shock will occur.
However, grounding the pump pulls the pump and water to the power companies neutral potential which is different than what the area of around your pool is due to some localized voltage source.
On to the stray voltage source. One way to find the source would be again to use that same house ground/neutral connect and measure the ground potential around the pool (one lead on screwdriver in ground near pool and one lead to house ground/neutral. See if the voltage is higher in one location than another. That might localize where the issue exists.
Post 199
is there any chance that the main breaker could be bad at 40+ years old and allow some voltage through when tripped ? So OP kills power to the house but still sees the 3V at the pool ? The electric co lifts one leg at the street and voltage persists. They put it back, lift the other and still have the voltage on the 1st leg ? To them they checked both legs but missed it ? Then once they kill the neighborhood, both legs and the pool go dark ?
Post 200
I haven't read all the comments but I had a similar situation with a customer. Found that the bond was corroded in the meter box and no bond to the water meter inside the house.
Post 201
I still think that using the oscilloscope between the ground and water while injecting a signal onto the line with a wire tracer toner/signal generator would be helpful.
Or, just watch the signal as you connect and disconnect things to see if there are any significant changes.
Post 202
Food for thought if he had 3V leaking when tripped or off on the EGC then he would most likely have 120V with the breaker on.
Post 204
Thinking on the isolating the neutral you could turn off the main breaker and lift every neutral nd EGC and pull the main neutral and clear it. But that's a lot of work. Or you could do something like this and slide it from top to bottom this would isolate the neutral from the other bare wires in the panel.
View attachment 360241
I'll make sure to pick some up.
@mas985 Thank you for the suggestions on what to check.
I'll continue hunting for this antagonist. Also, I do have a large section of concrete that has cracked over near the deep end. I've told my wife that we'll need to fix this bonding issue at the railing, and she throws in getting the large pad fixed where everyone sits as well.
Post 205
The triangle wave might be caused by harmonics.
The third harmonic and successive odd harmonics can change the shape from a sine wave to a triangular wave.
It’s basically the Fourier composition of a triangle wave from the original sine wave and successive odd harmonics.
The third harmonic has the biggest impact.
Every harmonic after the third sharpens the point of the triangle.
Since you previously saw 180 hz, which is the third harmonic, that could be relevant.
Post 206
It’s basically the Fourier composition of a triangle wave from the original sine wave and successive odd harmonics.
The third harmonic has the biggest impact.
Every harmonic after the third sharpens the point of the triangle.
Since you previously saw 180 hz, which is the third harmonic, that could be relevant.
Post 207
Corrosion between wired contacts can sometimes act like a mixer which can generate harmonics. This could also be the cause of poor bonding.
