Serious help needed
- Thread starter richardc
- Start date
I vacuumed this afternoon;not alot of stuff. I still see what looks like a "sandy" type material with black something on it. I doubt if it is regular sand, but I am not a pathologist. I did examine some of the waste water while my Son pushed the vacuum in the middle to shallow end of the pool. We observed tiny brown/black specs of dirt/algae/who knows. Also, the skimmer basket contained some leaves from vacuuming. I would say they were a normal amount for an average pool.
My pool vacuum is a bright blue color along with blue hoses. I could barely see the vacuum head on the lowest stair. It was not clear but it was somewhat visible.
I have a baracuda vacuum G3 model that worked beautifully years ago. It did a great job of vacuuming. Is it advisible to use it now even though one cannot see down inthe water. My thought is it did a superior job of cleaning the bottom and sides of the pool, and I could let it run for a while. Of course the downside would be if it fell off the hose I would be unable to find it except by braille fishing !
What say you??
My pool vacuum is a bright blue color along with blue hoses. I could barely see the vacuum head on the lowest stair. It was not clear but it was somewhat visible.
I have a baracuda vacuum G3 model that worked beautifully years ago. It did a great job of vacuuming. Is it advisible to use it now even though one cannot see down inthe water. My thought is it did a superior job of cleaning the bottom and sides of the pool, and I could let it run for a while. Of course the downside would be if it fell off the hose I would be unable to find it except by braille fishing !
What say you??
Another advantage of using the Baracuda is that I would be able to monitor the waste discharge while the machine works independently. Right now I am a one man operation, so that would help.
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Regular pool sand, I think it is #20 silica sand. But it is defintely pool sand only!
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Regular pool sand, I think it is #20 silica sand. But it is defintely pool sand only!
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How much faster would a different filter operate on clearing things up? I like the concept of the cartridge filters.
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Regular pool sand, I think it is #20 silica sand. But it is defintely pool sand only!
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Regular pool sand, I think it is #20 silica sand. But it is defintely pool sand only!
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How much faster would a different filter operate on clearing things up? I like the concept of the cartridge filters.
You already confirmed sand was not coming out of your return. The material you are seeing in the backwash is the decomposed organic material that the pool rake cannot pick up. Some particles are too fine for the net, and other particles are just pushed away when the net moves through the water. The vacuum is able to pick those up.
Running the Baracuda is a good idea. It can vacuum from one skimmer while the other skimmer continues to gather material from the top 3 inches of water.
Running the Baracuda is a good idea. It can vacuum from one skimmer while the other skimmer continues to gather material from the top 3 inches of water.
ok, I also called Zodiac and they said use it as well.
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Test results as of 3:45 CST, July 5th.
FC 14.5
CC 1.5
Pool math indicates adding 49 oz.
You may want to open the filter and verify the amount of sand in it. My SLAM stalled, I had just recently filled a brand new filter. Turn out once the sand settled, there wasn't enough sand in it. Once I added more, my pool cleared up in a few days. (I was SURE I added enough, ha ha.)
Totally agree with PAGirl. I also suspect something is wrong with the filter & you need to take a look inside. A DE filter will have it clear in 24 hours. Probably not much longer with a cartridge filter. With either one you will need to clean it multiple times due to clogging.
I put in 300 lbs of sand myself. Ill check it once my lid opener arrives.
What about a cartridge filter? Would that do the trick?
What about a cartridge filter? Would that do the trick?
Tonight's test results:
July 5th, at 9 PM
FC 13
CC 2
Added chlorine to bring it up to 16
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Is it my filter that is holding things up? Or is it the degree of algae ? It has to be one or the other, correct ? Could there be a third variable?
How much more efficiently would a cartridge or DE filter operate compared to my old sand filter?
I like the idea of a cartridge filter for simplicity sake, no backwashing etc ? What do you think?
July 5th, at 9 PM
FC 13
CC 2
Added chlorine to bring it up to 16
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Is it my filter that is holding things up? Or is it the degree of algae ? It has to be one or the other, correct ? Could there be a third variable?
How much more efficiently would a cartridge or DE filter operate compared to my old sand filter?
I like the idea of a cartridge filter for simplicity sake, no backwashing etc ? What do you think?
The type of filter has nothing to do with killing algae and clearing up the pool. Any filter will filter the pool. There are thousands and thousands of people who have slammed and cleared up their pool with a sand filter. Chlorine is the only thing that kills algae and clears up the pool. When I had some algae and my pool was barely cloudy I had to take my cartridge filter apart and clean the cartridges every 2-3 days, it took about an hour each time. If you installed a cartridge filter right now you'd have to take it apart and clean it every day. I would have much preferred to be able to just backwash when the pressure rose 20-25%.
Once the pool is fairly clear and the chlorine holds better you can add DE to the sand filter to help it clear faster, Pool School - Add DE to a Sand Filter. Or you can add DE now but don't leave because you'll probably have to backwash in an hour or less.
Once the pool is fairly clear and the chlorine holds better you can add DE to the sand filter to help it clear faster, Pool School - Add DE to a Sand Filter. Or you can add DE now but don't leave because you'll probably have to backwash in an hour or less.
I’ll let the experts weigh in but as long as your cc number is higher than .05 you still have organics the chlorine is working on. You don’t want the downtime for a filter change in the middle of a slam
1st thing is to look inside your current filter. I'd want to get the pool cleaner before putting in a new filter. If you're serious about a new filter look at the Pentair Quad DE filter. It has the filtering capabilities of DE with the cleaning ease of a cartridge filter.
You have already confirmed there is no sand coming from the returns. Your filter is doing exactly what it is supposed to do. It is capturing the debris suspended in the water. It takes time to capture all the debris that is suspended in the water, plus your test results show you are still killing algae. You will lose ground in the slam if you stop at this point to change filters.
There is no residential pool filter that will clear your pool of the debris load you have within 24 hours. Not having to backwash may make a cartridge filter sound appealing, but you will have to frequently clean the cartridges during a slam. When they fill up you have to pull them out of the filter vessel and hose them off. How many times are you back washing every day? You will be pulling the cartridges and hosing them off just as often as you are backwashing now.
Today was your 3rd full day of slamming the pool. It will take several days to complete the slam, and probably several more to filter out all the debris. It may seem like slow going but the process does work.
There is no residential pool filter that will clear your pool of the debris load you have within 24 hours. Not having to backwash may make a cartridge filter sound appealing, but you will have to frequently clean the cartridges during a slam. When they fill up you have to pull them out of the filter vessel and hose them off. How many times are you back washing every day? You will be pulling the cartridges and hosing them off just as often as you are backwashing now.
Today was your 3rd full day of slamming the pool. It will take several days to complete the slam, and probably several more to filter out all the debris. It may seem like slow going but the process does work.
There is nothing easy about cleaning a cartridge filter. It takes about an hour and at least half of that time is spent with a garden hose going full blast hosting off dozens of pleats in 4 different cartridges. I've done it many times.
If you installed a quad DE filter on your pool right now you would have to clean it and add new DE every day.
I've seen people with DE filters and a swamp have to backwash and recharge DE every hour. Or just run it on bypass because they have to go to work and not filter at all all day long.
If you installed a quad DE filter on your pool right now you would have to clean it and add new DE every day.
I've seen people with DE filters and a swamp have to backwash and recharge DE every hour. Or just run it on bypass because they have to go to work and not filter at all all day long.
Richard, there are two challenges here. The first is maintain the slam level completely until you are not losing FC overnight. The second is to clear the water.
In my slam which, had high debris load like yours, I had to STOP TOUCHING THE WATER in order to STOP stirring up the silt while the top layers filtered.
While in a normal slam its good to brush etc., in a heavy debris slam that putrified a high volume of particulate matter like leaves, its actually better IMHO to LEAVE THE WATER ALONE, as I suggested earlier, for several days to SEE if it will clear. Especially in your case, where you already changed the filter sand.
Every time you rake, vacuum or otherwise disturb the water right now, including using a cleaner just yet, you're stirring up the silt.
As long as you're stirring up the water, nobody here can accurately diagnose whether you have a problem with the filtering or not.
I'd personally like to see you go from today to Monday without touching the water except to add chlorine and check that your psi is good and your pump basket doesn't clog. But no raking, brushing, vacuuming at all. Take pictures of the whole pool from the same spot each day.
If you've maintained your FC religiously, not touched the water, and maintained correct filtration, I predict your clarity will have increased and silt will drift on the bottom, ready for a very slow, careful vacuum to waste.
If you do those things and this does not happen, then and only then might I offer a different diagnostic suggestion which would remedy.
Btw, if you lose pressure and your water is at te correct level halfway up the skimmer, you don't need to backwash...you need to clean out the pump basket. The only time you should backwash is if your psi increases 25%. Sand filters work better a bit dirty, as I mentioned earlier.
Ok, I will follow your approach. A couple of points, though. First, when my filter clogs, and the pressure goes up, it clogs, and the pump will lose prime. Sometimes the entire prime is lost so that nothing is pumped, and other times , it will be a slow flow. In either event, I have to re-prime to backwash, and rinse. if I have totally lost prime it can take a few minutes to get it going. Once, its going it will flow for X minutes or hours depending on debris (stirred up state), or whether I have added diluted DE to the skimmer basket. An earlier post reply, stated that if I add DE I'll be backwashing every hour or so. He is right ! So, if I am to leave the pump/filter alone, and want it to run, then I should not add DE now, correct?
My filter pump basket very rarely, if ever fills with debris requiring cleaning. My shallow skimmer basket collects the brunt of leaves, while the deep end skimmer collects a much lesser amount of stuff.
Yesterday, when I vacuumed to waste, and did as close of an inspection as possible of the water (cupping handfuls as it expelled), I noticed tiny bits of brown/black debris, and I mean tiny! Nothing large, or obvious, and no muck, brown sediment (other than the tiny bits), leaves, or other obvious items. So I remain convinced that 99% of the gunk is gone. What remains on the bottom is guesswork until visible. One can see about 12-18 inces down at this juncture.
Otherwise, I will let things alone and see what happens. I will have the skimmer ports open and the main drain closed. Yes ? I assume your fellow TFP people agree. I will continue to monitor the FC and add to slam levels. I have been doing this about 5-6 X per day.
Please let me know if something needs change. Thank you for all of your help, suggestions, and support!
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I appreciate your input because I certainly have no experience with these things. An earlier post stated that he believed that if I had a DE filter things would clear w/in 24 hours. So, again, I only know what people suggest. Thank you for your input because I find your experience invaluable !
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Thank you, I will check it out.
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I have found that adding DE does create quite a backwashing need !
As you have discovered, the addition of DE is a last step, only to be used after you have killed and filtered the great majority of algae and other debris. DE addition is to aid in achieving a final polish to the water. You have a while to go before you will be in a position to do that.
I didn't add DE to my sand filter until after I passed the 3 criteria. I use it to go from "clear" to "sparkly". It won't, in my opinion, clear up a swamp, it will just speed up the final push to clear.