Sanity check on Fiberglass quote in Kansas City area

[brandon12345]

Seemingly like the rest of the world, we're looking to put a pool in the backyard. First builder we had come out this week specializes in Fiberglass and this is the quote he provided. Hoping someone more knowledgeable can give me direction on the components he's including or suggestions on changes:

Leisure Pools Supreme - 14.50'x30'
Concrete decking 4' around perimeter
2" pipe and fittings, 2 Main drains, 3 return lines
Hayward C17502 cartridge filter
Hayward SP3210EE 1HP pump
Hayward PL-PLUS automation system with timers and salt chlorine control
Hayward T-CELL-15 Turbo Cell (40,000 gal)
Hayward AQL-CHEM Sense and Dispense
Hayward AQL-WWP4 indoor keypad
SR Smith Fiberglass pool 4 color LED light

The price for that "package" is quoted at $62,000. We are also considering the Thursday Pool Goliath 16'x41' with the same above components and that package is $71k

Add on's we can choose from:
AquaCal Heat Pump - $5,500
PCS Automatic Cover - $11,995
Slides - $4k+

I know pricing is regional and looking at other areas of the country, this seems pretty high by comparison. We're having another builder come out next week that specializes in concrete pools as well so we can evaluate both options. As far as the package listed above, is there anything missing or notable that you would recommend adjusting? The builder said he's open to alternatives (pricing may change of course) so I wanted to get a quick sanity check on the bill of materials. Thanks!

 

[ajw22]

Welcome to TFP.

The only way to know what is good pricing in your area is to get a few quotes. The price someone else can get 1,000 miles away does you no good.

How many gallons will be in the pool?

Hayward C17502 cartridge filter - we recommend a larger filter so you only have to clean it once a season. The bigger the better.
Hayward SP3210EE 1HP pump - get a TriStar VS pump. It will be more energy efficient and pay for itself in a few years with lower electric costs.
Hayward PL-PLUS automation system with timers and salt chlorine control - new system from hayward that we have not seen yet
Hayward T-CELL-15 Turbo Cell (40,000 gal) - good
Hayward AQL-CHEM Sense and Dispense - not recommended. No need for it.
Hayward AQL-WWP4 indoor keypad - ok
SR Smith Fiberglass pool 4 color LED light - ok

 

[brandon12345]

The Supreme is a 17k gallon pool and the Goliath would be 19k.

 

[jimmythegreek]

agree with Allen on it all. no need for AQL chem at all. 4 ft of concrete isnt enough, thats where you will go over the contract price. its on the high side for a fiberglass pool with no water features, but prices are up with the pandemic. I just completed an 8 day turbo install of a 16x32 in my hometown. friend of a friend. I gave him a very fair price in early May based on October install schedule. He straight up offered me 10k bonus if I could get him installed and swimming by Fathers Day. I handed that pool over this morning after final inspection and went another 9k over contract price adding things last minute. People arent going on vaca's or sending kids to summer camp etc. so they are spending money at the house, and the supply chain is starting to go dry

 

[brandon12345]

I've gotten a few more quotes and for the most part, pricing is all generally in the same ballpark. However, there are a few points of conflicting information I'm getting on a couple topics and I'm hoping someone with experience can give me their feedback.

Heater: One PB says gas heaters are definitely the way to go since they heat water quicker. The theory being that since they are quicker, the actual cost to run is roughly equal to an electric heat pump. The other PB is telling me the cost to run a heater will be 3x that if the electric heat pump and the electric heat pumps don't really take that long to heat the pool.

Automation: One PB says that it's an expensive novelty that I'll rarely if ever use and it's prone to breaking and needing adjusting and repair. The other PB is saying the automation is a must and makes things much more convenient. He's quoting Hayward PL-PLUS for automation. if it matters, I won't have a spa or waterfall and it will just be the pool so I'm wondering if automation is worth the cost.

Anyone have feedback on those 2 items?

 

[ajw22]

NG or propane for a gas heater? Propane can be 3X the cost of NG.

A gas heater will heat the pool about 2.5X as quickly as a HP. Especially in the colder months.

 

[brandon12345]

Natural Gas

 

[ajw22]

If you have NG available get a gas heater.

 

[gingrbredman]

Automation: One PB says that it's an expensive novelty

I personally would avoid any PB who would make a statement like that. With a simple setup, maybe you don't need the latest and greatest with all the bells and whistles, but a simple automation system would seem to me as a mandatory part of any new pool build. And I wouldn't consider a simple system really "expensive" in the scope of the whole project.

 

[Chasarms]

If you have the room, I promise you will never regret the extra costs of the larger pool.

 

[Yev]

For my tastes, the 14.5x30 is way too small. I would invest in the extra 10 feet as a high on my list item.

But my red flag on a pool quote is 4 feet of concrete all around. Take a minute to think of how you see your pool. Most people put tables and chars around, and perhaps a few chaise lounges. 4 feet does not give adequate room to place this stuff on the concrete, let alone have people walk around those things.

Most pools are situated more sideways, so in your case it might be 30 foot left to right, and 14.5 feet front to back. They are also positioned so the shallow end is nearest to the point of access to the pool. You want a lot more concrete patio space in teh shallow end, and the area between the house and the pool. Do yourself a favor, and mock up a table and chairs in your grass. Just see how much room you need to have them, plus room to walk around.

 

[jkauth]

I've gotten a few more quotes and for the most part, pricing is all generally in the same ballpark. However, there are a few points of conflicting information I'm getting on a couple topics and I'm hoping someone with experience can give me their feedback.

Heater: One PB says gas heaters are definitely the way to go since they heat water quicker. The theory being that since they are quicker, the actual cost to run is roughly equal to an electric heat pump. The other PB is telling me the cost to run a heater will be 3x that if the electric heat pump and the electric heat pumps don't really take that long to heat the pool.

Automation: One PB says that it's an expensive novelty that I'll rarely if ever use and it's prone to breaking and needing adjusting and repair. The other PB is saying the automation is a must and makes things much more convenient. He's quoting Hayward PL-PLUS for automation. if it matters, I won't have a spa or waterfall and it will just be the pool so I'm wondering if automation is worth the cost.

Anyone have feedback on those 2 items?

I'm in Overland Park, Contemporary Pools built my pool 7 years ago - love it. We have Pentair Ultratemp Heat/Cool Pump and love it. We do not have the concern of wanting to rapidly heat the pool. The heat pump take longer to get the temp up - but that's ok - the operating cost is far less than a gas heater. A friend put in a gas heater - ran it for a month than never ran it again because of the gas bill. We open our pool in April and close it in November and the heat pump does great. As importantly in our climate - our Ultratemp cools the water in the summer. We have a vinyl liner over unite walls and a poolkrete bottom that goes from 3ft to 5 ft deep and approx 630 sq ft of area 18k gallons. On hot multiple mid-90's high 90's days the water can get warm - and that is no fun. The heat/cool pump does a great job of chilling the water back down into the mid 80's - refreshing on hot days. I also have a pentair salt chlorination system that runs at 20%, I think keeping the water temp down helps with the amount of chlorination needed to keep the pool clean, clear and sanitary. While the heat/cool pump may cost more up front the operating cost is lower and you will get the added benefit of cooling which in my experience is as important as heating. Good luck with your decision.

 

[Yev]

I tell my friends who get a pool in the midwest, make your equiment pad big enough for a heater (changed from pool by Mod), and prewire for one if you want. But wait to see if you need it or not.

If you place your pool so that it is in full non-shaded sun from 10am to 4pm, it should likely stay warm enough. If it is not, then go back and add a heater. You can always add a heater later on, you can never make your pool bigger.

But for my family, no one likes to swim when the air temp is cold, so not having a heater has been no issue at all. For some families, you might add that kids will swim if the water is 60, they dont care.

 

[brandon12345]

For my tastes, the 14.5x30 is way too small. I would invest in the extra 10 feet as a high on my list item.

But my red flag on a pool quote is 4 feet of concrete all around. Take a minute to think of how you see your pool. Most people put tables and chars around, and perhaps a few chaise lounges. 4 feet does not give adequate room to place this stuff on the concrete, let alone have people walk around those things.

Most pools are situated more sideways, so in your case it might be 30 foot left to right, and 14.5 feet front to back. They are also positioned so the shallow end is nearest to the point of access to the pool. You want a lot more concrete patio space in teh shallow end, and the area between the house and the pool. Do yourself a favor, and mock up a table and chairs in your grass. Just see how much room you need to have them, plus room to walk around.

Agreed on the 14.5x30 being too small, we're probably going with a 16'x37' which is about as big as our yard can handle without being only a pool.

From the 4 quotes I've received they all included 4' concrete all around as part of the "package" with extra being in the $8-12 sq/ft range. We have existing concrete that solves most of the need but will end up adding ~100sq ft in addition to make it more user friendly.

 

[Yev]

Cool. I think a big regret that lots of people have with their new pool is not the pool itself, but the overall layout. How to tie it into the yard. Where do people sit. Where do people walk. Where do people put their towels and pool bags when swimming. Where is the grill. Where do I put landscaping. How do I cut the grass around the pool. So dont forget these things.

 

[jimmythegreek]

When you have limited space the wider the pool the better. A 14x30 feels much smaller than a 16x30 width plays the biggest role on how it feels when in the pool. A good size is a 16x32. That's the smallest size I recommend if you have the room and the most popular size. Half the pools we install are 16x32. 20x40 are large pools they feel big. Remember the more water gallons the harder to heat if that's a concern. The best bang for the buck is solar if you want an all summer hot pool. I have a gas heater and barely use it at all. I may run for 2 to 3 hours to boost temps before a party or in the spring or fall but that's it. My heat is free my pump is running anyway for the swg so zero cost. If you plan to heat constantly at a set point a heatpump is a better choice usually. If you do a Hayward aquaplus it has it's own box amd with a VS it has its own interface. For a simple no water feature or spa pool automation isnt needed. The PLplus swg bundle is a cheaper option I install lots of them I have one on my personal pool but I have many things tied to it