Robot Vacuums - So Many Questions!

[Kj78unlv]

We are struggling with some of life's great questions...Don't let us down TFP! We need your help!

1. Are pool vacuum robots really worth the higher price tag compared to side vacs?
2. Do side vacs put a strain on pool equipment so much that the wear and tear you save on the equipment when using a robot is worth the higher price tag?
3. How long do robots typically last before something breaks on it (from what we heard they are very expensive to fix and we should consider them as a disposable equipment)?
4. Do robots that claim to clean waterlines actually make a difference when it comes to build up and hard water stains?
5. Are name brands really important or do knock-offs work just as good?
6. Are there any cordless robots that work as well as corded robots?
7. Are there any secrets to getting better pricing than what sellers advertise?
8. What brands/models do you recommend for our situation (explained below)?

What We Have: We live in Las Vegas and have minimal trees near our pool. The closest ones are pine and sumac. Our pool is 18'x40' with a depth of 3' to 6', two long benches that essentially run the entire 40' and a wet/baja deck (which I know robots do not like). The pool has all right angles and filled with very hard water. The plaster is quartz and the tile line has 8" tile instead of the standard 6" tile. We also have an attached spa that is 7'x7'. We have a pool guy that comes weekly to maintain the pool. We have two active kids that will play with the vacuum no matter how many times we tell them not to.

What we want: something that we can put in the pool every other day or so that cleans the floor, walls, and waterline (if the robot actually does help keep hard water and scum buildup away - if not, we don't need this feature). No wifi is needed. We would like to be able to drop it in the pool when we go on vacation and let it auto run. Longevity and reliability are important to us - we want something that is going to last at least 4-5 years. Something that can be operated by novices.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

We are struggling with some of life's great questions...Don't let us down TFP! We need your help!

1. Are pool vacuum robots really worth the higher price tag compared to side vacs?
2. Do side vacs put a strain on pool equipment so much that the wear and tear you save on the equipment when using a robot is worth the higher price tag?
3. How long do robots typically last before something breaks on it (from what we heard they are very expensive to fix and we should consider them as a disposable equipment)?
4. Do robots that claim to clean waterlines actually make a difference when it comes to build up and hard water stains?
5. Are name brands really important or do knock-offs work just as good?
6. Are there any cordless robots that work as well as corded robots?
7. Are there any secrets to getting better pricing than what sellers advertise?
8. What brands/models do you recommend for our situation (explained below)?

What We Have: We live in Las Vegas and have minimal trees near our pool. The closest ones are pine and sumac. Our pool is 18'x40' with a depth of 3' to 6', two long benches that essentially run the entire 40' and a wet/baja deck (which I know robots do not like). The pool has all right angles and filled with very hard water. The plaster is quartz and the tile line has 8" tile instead of the standard 6" tile. We also have an attached spa that is 7'x7'. We have a pool guy that comes weekly to maintain the pool. We have two active kids that will play with the vacuum no matter how many times we tell them not to.

What we want: something that we can put in the pool every other day or so that cleans the floor, walls, and waterline (if the robot actually does help keep hard water and scum buildup away - if not, we don't need this feature). No wifi is needed. We would like to be able to drop it in the pool when we go on vacation and let it auto run. Longevity and reliability are important to us - we want something that is going to last at least 4-5 years. Something that can be operated by novices.

I went from a suction side cleaner to a robot and then back to a suction cleaner. So my OPINION (which is all you can expect as answers to your questions) is NO, they are not worth it. See the link in my signature. Here’s my OPINIONATED answers to your questions -

1. No. But it depends a lot on how much you value your time.
2. No. But by “side vacs” do you mean suction or pressure? If your plumbing is properly designed then this question is just old wives tale stuff.
3. TFP has seen them die in 3 years. Best estimates MIN/AVG/MAX is 3/5/7+
4. No. It’s marketing BS. Especially with hard water the robot will have no impact on your water line except to blow the dirt and leaves away that accumulate by the wall.
5. Maytronics/Dolphin, Aiper and Aquabot are the “Big 3”
6. TBD, not enough data
7. Wait for sales. Aiper is running sales right now.
8. None. I’m done with robots. Stick with the cleaner you have and save your money for buying the kids nice things.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

But, if you are absolutely set on having a robot … anything that is a version of the Dolphin S200 (S200, Active 20, Pentair Warrior, etc) is probably your best bet for a robot. Not fancy, but cleans the floor and walls. Does the waterline but that as just a gimmick so who cares about that. Power supply is no frills but does allow for “Automation Mode” so you could use a WiFi smart switch to automate it while on vacation or chose the everyday/every-other-day/every-3rd-day cleaner run options.

 

[Geebot]

Joyful is plainly joyless on this subject. I, along with millions of others, panic at the thought of a robot-less pool. When we purchased our house 9 years ago the previous owner spent several hours with me one weekend morning to show me around the equipment. We manually vacuumed it together for about an hour and I casually asked why he didn't use a robot (he was fairly wealthy, this was his third home) and he said he didn't really see any point in buying one. The pool also clearly had a dedicated cleaner port which had been capped off some years earlier. After several weeks of manual cleaning a friend offered me his old Dolphin when he purchased a new one. It was eye-opening. I could just walk away and drop off the dry cleaning or run miscellaneous errands while it cleaned the pool. The old Dolphin had a canvas collection bag which was its achilles heel. When I saw the newer models with the easy-to-clean baskets I bought one. It was the single best purchase I could have made for my pool. The motor failed 4-1/2 years in and I ordered a replacement that day. I use it nearly every day because we are in a neighborhood surrounded by old growth trees so there is something in the pool at any point in time. Given the heavy use and the unbelievable ease of use and effectiveness it's truly a no-brainer purchase.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

It’s not about joy or any emotional attachment at all … it’s about numbers. You will NEVER recover the cost of a robot on a pool and you will always have to spend money on any cleaner that you buy. Robots are not cheap and can be extremely costly. On average, if you’re spending $1000 on a robot that will only last 5 years, that’s $200/year. Some people might be ok with that. Others may not. I try to deal on facts whenever possible and it is my opinion that TFP ought to lay out all the facts to people so that they can make good decisions. Giving people just the gauzy, emotional “I love my robot and you’ll have to pry it from my dead cold fingers …” shtick doesn’t inform a decision.

So, if the OP can post more details about their pool build and what equipment they have, TFP can better help make a decision on robot versus side cleaner.

 

[gingrbredman]

I for one am a huge fan of my robot to make my pool maintenance easier. I am going to need to vacuum my pool, its a maintenance chore that can not be avoided. My robot makes this chore easier, and in my opinion, totally worth the money spent on it. I look at it as part of my yearly pool ownership cost. I do not have facts about my robot, its worth, or its ROI, I just love the ease it provides me in keeping my pool TF!

You will NEVER recover the cost of a robot on a pool

I guess I would say there are a lot of costs, that you will never recover with pool ownership. Even a SWCG could be seen as a device that is not financially better than say adding chlorine each day, but the pure ease and convenience of that little device is worth it. Heck, I'm not even sure I am going to recover the cost of the actual pool itself, but I sure wouldn't want to be without it.

Robots are not cheap and can be extremely costly

Heck yeah they are!

I try to deal on facts whenever possible and it is my opinion

I do not want to make light of his opinion on this topic because I have learned so much from @JoyfulNoise over my time here, but chuckled a bit when I read that last line. Deal in facts.....but my opinion! Not sure why, maybe it is because when it comes to so may topics he knows about, it is like a science, or engineering, or physics class, and all facts and easy to understand. Much respect for his take on almost all things pool related, but I do love my robot!

Do robots that claim to clean waterlines actually make a difference when it comes to build up and hard water stains?

My Prowler 920 does a good job of getting over the "ledge" in my pool and then scrub along the water line. It gets there, and it cleans, but do not think the action really "cleans" as much as one might expect. It vacuums, but not sure it would do good if I had tile and hard water stains.

Are there any secrets to getting better pricing than what sellers advertise?

Margaret Mills is a great person to chat with on robots, and almost has always given a better price than any online retailer. She has a legit store front, and ships quick.

Marina Pool, Spa & Patio
7777 West Jewell Avenue
Lakewood, Colorado 80232
303-985-0077

What brands/models do you recommend for our situation (explained below)?

Almost any Maytronics/Dolphin (also re-braded to Pentair) that you can get a good price on will vacuum your pool nicely. Margret is great to talk these situations over with and see what she has available in the supply tight world we live in.

Like I said, I don't have a lot of pure data driven facts, but if my robot died today, I'd have another one ordered from Margret in no time.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I for one am a huge fan of my robot to make my pool maintenance easier. I am going to need to vacuum my pool, its a maintenance chore that can not be avoided. My robot makes this chore easier, and in my opinion, totally worth the money spent on it. I look at it as part of my yearly pool ownership cost. I do not have facts about my robot, its worth, or its ROI, I just love the ease it provides me in keeping my pool TF!


I guess I would say there are a lot of costs, that you will never recover with pool ownership. Even a SWCG could be seen as a device that is not financially better than say adding chlorine each day, but the pure ease and convenience of that little device is worth it. Heck, I'm not even sure I am going to recover the cost of the actual pool itself, but I sure wouldn't want to be without it.


Heck yeah they are!


I do not want to make light of his opinion on this topic because I have learned so much from @JoyfulNoise over my time here, but chuckled a bit when I read that last line. Deal in facts.....but my opinion! Not sure why, maybe it is because when it comes to so may topics he knows about, it is like a science, or engineering, or physics class, and all facts and easy to understand. Much respect for his take on almost all things pool related, but I do love my robot!


My Prowler 920 does a good job of getting over the "ledge" in my pool and then scrub along the water line. It gets there, and it cleans, but do not think the action really "cleans" as much as one might expect. It vacuums, but not sure it would do good if I had tile and hard water stains.


Margaret Mills is a great person to chat with on robots, and almost has always given a better price than any online retailer. She has a legit store front, and ships quick.

Marina Pool, Spa & Patio
7777 West Jewell Avenue
Lakewood, Colorado 80232
303-985-0077


Almost any Maytronics/Dolphin (also re-braded to Pentair) that you can get a good price on will vacuum your pool nicely. Margret is great to talk these situations over with and see what she has available in the supply tight world we live in.

Like I said, I don't have a lot of pure data driven facts, but if my robot died today, I'd have another one ordered from Margret in no time.

One's opinion can (and should) be informed by the facts

Here's the point -

• robots are ONE method for cleaning a pool. But they are not the only method.
• They are not the cheapest method.
• They can be (but not always are) an energy efficient method.
• They do cost more than most other cleaning equipment.
• They will break and are NOT repairable (it's by design of the manufacturer that robots are not repairable ... so that consumers have to buy new. It's their revenue model).
• They can not, and should not, be regularly left in a pool 24/7 (if you want to get the most life out of them)
• They require just as much attention as any other cleaning method (take it out, clean it off, put it away)

The comparison to an SWG is not valid, it's an apples-to-oranges argument. Chlorination and disinfection is the single most important issue to a pool and the economics of purchasing and running an SWG put it on par with buying and dosing liquid chlorine. Sanitation is an absolute must-have in a pool and making sure that it is done regularly and consistently is key to keeping a pool trouble free. Inconsistent vacuuming or cleaning of a pool is not necessarily a problem, just unsightly most of the time and so a robot is simply a luxury to help alleviate the burden of that process. No pool ever goes green from a few leaves and some dirt at the bottom but EVERY pool will go green if sanitation is not properly kept up. Every pool needs a pump, a filter, and a method of chlorination ... no pool needs a robot.

Again, I'm glad people love their robots and if you're willing to spend money on a new one every time it breaks (give or take 5 years), more power to ya. But, when someone asks the questions - "help me figure out if a robot is right for me?" - they deserve all the facts, not just lots of Rah! Rah! GO FOR IT! cheerleading ...

 

[gingrbredman]

One's opinion can (and should) be informed by the facts

Not sure I follow the logic, but I know where you are going. If someone asks for my opinion on it, and I am clearly saying that it is just my opinion, my own experience of the issue is what is being relayed here. I am not trying to give facts, merely MY experience with MY robot.

The comparison to an SWG is not valid, it's an apples-to-oranges argument.

Sorry, but it is if we are talking about the cost, which is what I was comparing. Every other single thing in that paragraph shouldn't be disputed. My point was, there is other ways to sanitize your pool that with a SWCG, but the SWCG is chosen for convenience and ease, and not for a return on the investment.

I feel like I sound like I'm being argumentative, and I really am not, but do believe there is a place for people to express their experiences on things like robots and the such, that do not need a ton of facts like say, chlorination, or TA, or CYA which are all based on facts. We aren't talking about frog, or UV, or copper, its just a robot that a lot of TFP members use, and recommend.

I get it, some experiences with robots are worse than others, and on the other side you will get a lot of "rah rah", but there is a ton of experiences from members with robots that can be pretty valuable. If someone asks for a recommendation or an opinion, the experiences have been just as valuable as a resource to me over my time here. You will also get a lot of "facts" that argue anti-robot, but they are really just experiences with it all, which is all I was trying to relay here.

 

[Homebrewale]

It’s not about joy or any emotional attachment at all … it’s about numbers. You will NEVER recover the cost of a robot on a pool and you will always have to spend money on any cleaner that you buy. Robots are not cheap and can be extremely costly. On average, if you’re spending $1000 on a robot that will only last 5 years, that’s $200/year. Some people might be ok with that. Others may not. I try to deal on facts whenever possible and it is my opinion that TFP ought to lay out all the facts to people so that they can make good decisions. Giving people just the gauzy, emotional “I love my robot and you’ll have to pry it from my dead cold fingers …” shtick doesn’t inform a decision.

So, if the OP can post more details about their pool build and what equipment they have, TFP can better help make a decision on robot versus side cleaner.

Would you opinion change any if you had a pressure side instead of suction side cleaner? The one thing I disliked about my Polaris 380 pressure side cleaner is that it was terrible with fine dirt. It picked up bugs and leaves just fine but the fine dirt went right through the mesh bag and back into the pool to settle on the bottom again.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Would you opinion change any if you had a pressure side instead of suction side cleaner? The one thing I disliked about my Polaris 380 pressure side cleaner is that it was terrible with fine dirt. It picked up bugs and leaves just fine but the fine dirt went right through the mesh bag and back into the pool to settle on the bottom again.

Oh I totally agree on that point - if your only option is a pressure cleaner or a robot, the robot is the better choice. Pressure cleaners, in terms of watts of power expended for a given cleaning performance, are terrible. They are probably the most expensive way to clean a pool and I have said in other threads that I consider pressure side cleaners to be relics of the past much like rotary dial phones. There's certainly a possibility of improving pressure cleaners and their booster pumps but I don't think there's any motivation on the part of pool equipment makes to expend the money needed to do that.

Which is all to say that details really matter.

If a pool's plumbing was built with no cleaning option in mind, then you're only reasonable choice is a robot. Sadly, that locks the pool owner into having to drop $1000 every 5 years or so on a robot but that's all they can realistically do. But, if someone was building a pool, I ALWAYS recommend and stress the importance of adding a suction line wall port to the pool. It's absolutely dirt cheap to add to a new pool build and gives the pool owner a lot of flexibility. No downside whatsoever in doing that (yeah, yeah, yeah, suction side leaks ... blah, blah, blah ... properly installed and maintained and you'll rarely ever see a suction leak from a wall port). Then, in that situation, you have great flexibility - use a robot if you want to, use a suction cleaner if you feel like leaving something in the pool 24/7, or manually vacuum your pool when a quick spot cleaning is needed.

 

[rcs29]

Just want to add that if you are hoping a robot will effectively clean your benches and safety ledges (if you have those) you will be disappointed. It is effective at cleaning the floor and does pretty good on walls. Water line, steps, ledges and benches are all a no from my experience. It'll get some but you'll still find yourself brushing or manually vacuuming. That said will I buy another one once mine is dead? Yeah.

 

[Geebot]

EVERYTHING associated with your pool costs money. Ultimately it comes down to what is your time worth? If it really comes down to a $200 annual cost then it's a no-brainer for me. I spend a good 60 hours a week working to allow myself enjoyment on the weekend. After experiencing time-wasting manual vacuuming and spending enough time with a friend's pressure cleaner the robot is simply the best choice. I can push a button as I head out the door to my office or when I head out to run errands on a weekend morning and know it will get the job done. We also purchased a Betta skimmer robot - which is FAR from perfect - and when it's not in the shop it's a great supplement that nearly eliminates the need for manual surface skimming.

 

[Orion7319]

If a pool's plumbing was built with no cleaning option in mind, then you're only reasonable choice is a robot. Sadly, that locks the pool owner into having to drop $1000 every 5 years or so on a robot but that's all they can realistically do.

That’s pretty much my situation. I only have one skimmer. My back is also bad with a herniated disk so manually vacuuming and manual brushing is a strong no for me. I understand that in a few years I’m going to have to buy a new robot, however I honestly feel that the money I’m saving in chemicals by not going to the pool store more then makes up for the cost of buying a new robot every 4-5 years or so. Your points are all valid, and I totally agree that it’s all about making informed decisions.

 

[Katodude]

I would not live without my robot army. It is also important to note that many pools are luxury items so you have to factor in what that means to each individual.

Lets assume that the amortized cost of a robot is $200 per year. For Matt it is not worth it. For me, I do not like the look of the suction side cleaner in the pool. I also like the look of a spotless pool that the robot gives me. I also hate brushing and the robot does a better job than no brushing. I also live in Florida with an undersized filter so not running more stuff through the filter is another bonus for me. So for me $200 per year is worth it for that experience that is very personal to me.

I also have 2 surface skimmers (I only really need one). I expect them to last about 3 years so that is also about another $200 per year for that. I hate little floatie things in my pool when I swim so the surface skimmer is worth it for me. Much less value than a robot, but for me worth it.

This is how I choose to run my pool. It is good for me, but not others. Like we say here, every pool is different and every pool owner is also different.

What we need to do as a forum is provide the facts, and costs (which non of us really dispute), and provide recommendations on which of the products we like the most. Giving our personal experiences gives those items some context. What is left is for the OP to take those facts and determine what the value is to them.

 

[guinness]

Some anecdotal evidence that the longevity of robots could be worse on newer models.

Pentair Warrior SE died, where to go next?

Our Pentair Warrior SE, purchased from Marina in May 2020, died with what appears to be the usual problem: The motor self test fails after starting up and moving a few feet. I followed some suggestions from this forum and checked the impeller and impeller motor shaft, they are clean. I contacted...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Goliath]

When I moved into my new-to-me home, I had no knowledge of pools, chemistry, cleaners etc.
I've always been of the mindset that cheaper equipment fails earlier than higher quality (not necessarily WAY more expensive) equipment. I have a large (30k gal) pool, and opted for the largest Maytronics unit at the time. I think it was an M5, but don't really recall. It was well over $1,500 at the time.

I never left it in the pool overnight, and ALWAYS rinsed it with fresh water after removal.

After using it 3 yrs, here are my observations:

The biggest issue I had with the unit is that the filter media is a of limit size. The unit has a "Filter Full" warning, which would go off after about 45 min's to an hour, depending on how dirty the pool was. I would then have to shut off and retrieve the unit, clean the filters, and put back in the pool. If I forgot about it after a while, it was way less efficient. It was a pain in the @@@ to keep remembering to pull out the filters, then pull them out to hose them off, then drop it back in the water.

It was never great at leaves. I always picked up the vast majority of them before hand, but it was still poor at getting all.

I had to wheel it to the garage, which was not convenient for my pool location.

I always had to run a long extension cord, as my pool is kind of far from an outlet.

I got tired of its shortcomings, and decided to sell it. As a final "screw you" the robot completely died while testing on a final run before packaging and shipping it to the person who purchased it off Ebay. Luckily, I'm good with electronics. I disassembled the unit and found a defective voltage protection device on the motherboard, ordered and replaced the part, and tested it for 4 hours in the pool.

I did some research and got a Zodiac MX8 Elite, as it has the scrubbers underneath. This has been a great unit. I've had it for about 3.5 years. The biggest complaint is the crappy hoses they supply. I've gone through 3 sets, as you can see from a post on this forum I made earlier today. Other than the hoses, it's been great. It's a small, lightweight unit. It cleans really well. I don't leave it in the pool more than 2 days, and can just rinse it and throw it in a deck box outside the house.

The only downside is it puts the filtered debris in your pool system filter, rather than removing the dirt from the pool with the robot. I would rather take apart my Quad DE 100 filter once a year rather than clean a robot every 45 min's to an hour.

That's my feedback!
Your mileage may vary...

 

[JoyfulNoise]

When I moved into my new-to-me home, I had no knowledge of pools, chemistry, cleaners etc.
I've always been of the mindset that cheaper equipment fails earlier than higher quality (not necessarily WAY more expensive) equipment. I have a large (30k gal) pool, and opted for the largest Maytronics unit at the time. I think it was an M5, but don't really recall. It was well over $1,500 at the time.

I never left it in the pool overnight, and ALWAYS rinsed it with fresh water after removal.

After using it 3 yrs, here are my observations:

The biggest issue I had with the unit is that the filter media is a of limit size. The unit has a "Filter Full" warning, which would go off after about 45 min's to an hour, depending on how dirty the pool was. I would then have to shut off and retrieve the unit, clean the filters, and put back in the pool. If I forgot about it after a while, it was way less efficient. It was a pain in the @@@ to keep remembering to pull out the filters, then pull them out to hose them off, then drop it back in the water.

It was never great at leaves. I always picked up the vast majority of them before hand, but it was still poor at getting all.

I had to wheel it to the garage, which was not convenient for my pool location.

I always had to run a long extension cord, as my pool is kind of far from an outlet.

I got tired of its shortcomings, and decided to sell it. As a final "screw you" the robot completely died while testing on a final run before packaging and shipping it to the person who purchased it off Ebay. Luckily, I'm good with electronics. I disassembled the unit and found a defective voltage protection device on the motherboard, ordered and replaced the part, and tested it for 4 hours in the pool.

I did some research and got a Zodiac MX8 Elite, as it has the scrubbers underneath. This has been a great unit. I've had it for about 3.5 years. The biggest complaint is the crappy hoses they supply. I've gone through 3 sets, as you can see from a post on this forum I made earlier today. Other than the hoses, it's been great. It's a small, lightweight unit. It cleans really well. I don't leave it in the pool more than 2 days, and can just rinse it and throw it in a deck box outside the house.

The only downside is it puts the filtered debris in your pool system filter, rather than removing the dirt from the pool with the robot. I would rather take apart my Quad DE 100 filter once a year rather than clean a robot every 45 min's to an hour.

That's my feedback!
Your mileage may vary...

One thing I discovered is that if you use an in-line leaf trap, especially the small Hayward one with the hard plastic strainer in it, you can line the strainer with a hairnet and it will catch all of the debris. Not only the leaves and small bugs, but the sand and grit. Obviously very fine silt will get through but even that gets partially captured. It’s like adding a “fine filter” to the suction line.

 

[Richter12x2]

I'm looking at replacing the pressure side cleaner with a robot myself, and I just wanted to follow up on the cost question:

My pool currently uses a Polaris 280, with a PB4-60 booster pump. The booster pump is failing and making noise, showing corrosion around the edges, etc... it's needing a replacement rather than a rebuild. The 280 is roughly the same. It's doing an okay job, but really probably due for a full rebuild/replace. Due to pool shape, it misses about 30% of it, even with the new longer hose with all new swivel joints that I put on a few months ago, thinking that was the problem.

So if a Polaris 280 factory rebuild kit is $350, and the replacement pump is about $450. That's $800 if you rebuild, plus 3 hours of work or so to replumb, rewire, and rebuild it. If you buy a new 280 instead, it's $600 instead of $350, and then you're looking at $1050.

It's been running 4 hours a day to try to clean everything (and still misses 30% or more). 230V at 6.4A is 1472 Watts per hour, or 1.472 kWh, * 4 = 5.888 * .15 cents per kWh power usage is 88 cents per day, * 365 days per year is about $322 per year to operate.

The Dolphin S200 (Minimum Advertised Price $1049) uses 180 watts per hour, so assuming it runs the same amount of time, 180W * 4 = 10.8 cents per day, * 365 = $39.42 per year to operate with those assumptions, so hour for hour you'd save ($322 - $40) = $282 per year in electricity.

So it seems like, if you paid $1049 for the Dolphin S200 and rebuilt the Polaris and installed another PB4-60, you'd spend $249 more up front (and save 3-4 hours of nasty work), and then by the end of year one, you'd be $33 to the good, earning $282 per year after the fact that it runs.

Which means that, if the robot lasts 4-5 years, as anecdotal evidence seems to bear out, your energy savings alone will pay for the robot ($282 * 4 = $1128), before you even begin to consider the cost of maintaining a 280 (rebuild $350 or replace $600 every 4-5 years like the robot) and the booster pump, which lasts somewhat longer (call it $450 every 10 years, which makes the overall cost $45 per year or $180 for 4 years).

Again, those are the apples to apples assumptions. Other things that will skew the needle one way or the other, or are intangible:

- Robots are advertised as only needing to run every 2 or 3 days, which increases the value proposition even more, but:
A. I'll believe it when I see it
B. Operating cost is so low already that it doesn't provide a significant difference, even if $39.42 per year drops to $20 or $15, that's only another $80 over the life of the unit, if it's even true.
- If I stay with the Polaris setup, it'll still likely leave a large portion of the pool untouched. It's a problem that's always existed, not a new one as the system started to fail
- I've had a pool in two houses for the past 12 years or so, and 4-5 years is about all I have managed to get out of the Polaris 280, which puts it on par with the Dolphin.
- The booster pump DOES last longer than 4-5 years, but not much longer. This failing one is one I put in shortly after we moved in, which was about 6 years ago.
- For MOST people, replacing the booster pump means paying someone, due to high voltages and pool plumbing. A handy person can do it, otherwise, it's likely $300 or more in labor.
- In the past 4 years, I've replaced a couple of wheels on the Polaris, and gone through about a dozen net bags where the zippers rust off and break or the bag gets giant holes in them.

This SEEMS to bear out that on a full replace, a robot makes sense, where if you have a fully functional cleaner it's more or less a matter of preference because you don't really come out ahead (until it's time to replace). Also that it will favor the robot more and more as the cost of electricity increases. My opinion would be that it's not worth switching to a robot if everything is working well, but if any piece breaks, it's financially worth swapping.

Does that reasoning make sense, or is there something I'm not considering?

Someone mentioned SWGs above and how it was similar. I actually did a similar cost-benefit on those when I was considering it as well. When we moved in the SWG wasn't programmed to run and the previous owner (or their pool service) was running it as a chlorine pool with tabs. I found even buying tabs in bulk, I found I was spending $40-50 a month in tabs to get the chlorine levels where they needed to be. Even counting non-swimming months I found that I could replace a SWG cell every other year and still break even over having to dose chlorine every week.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I'm looking at replacing the pressure side cleaner with a robot myself, and I just wanted to follow up on the cost question:

My pool currently uses a Polaris 280, with a PB4-60 booster pump. The booster pump is failing and making noise, showing corrosion around the edges, etc... it's needing a replacement rather than a rebuild. The 280 is roughly the same. It's doing an okay job, but really probably due for a full rebuild/replace. Due to pool shape, it misses about 30% of it, even with the new longer hose with all new swivel joints that I put on a few months ago, thinking that was the problem.

So if a Polaris 280 factory rebuild kit is $350, and the replacement pump is about $450. That's $800 if you rebuild, plus 3 hours of work or so to replumb, rewire, and rebuild it. If you buy a new 280 instead, it's $600 instead of $350, and then you're looking at $1050.

It's been running 4 hours a day to try to clean everything (and still misses 30% or more). 230V at 6.4A is 1472 Watts per hour, or 1.472 kWh, * 4 = 5.888 * .15 cents per kWh power usage is 88 cents per day, * 365 days per year is about $322 per year to operate.

The Dolphin S200 (Minimum Advertised Price $1049) uses 180 watts per hour, so assuming it runs the same amount of time, 180W * 4 = 10.8 cents per day, * 365 = $39.42 per year to operate with those assumptions, so hour for hour you'd save ($322 - $40) = $282 per year in electricity.

So it seems like, if you paid $1049 for the Dolphin S200 and rebuilt the Polaris and installed another PB4-60, you'd spend $249 more up front (and save 3-4 hours of nasty work), and then by the end of year one, you'd be $33 to the good, earning $282 per year after the fact that it runs.

Which means that, if the robot lasts 4-5 years, as anecdotal evidence seems to bear out, your energy savings alone will pay for the robot ($282 * 4 = $1128), before you even begin to consider the cost of maintaining a 280 (rebuild $350 or replace $600 every 4-5 years like the robot) and the booster pump, which lasts somewhat longer (call it $450 every 10 years, which makes the overall cost $45 per year or $180 for 4 years).

Again, those are the apples to apples assumptions. Other things that will skew the needle one way or the other, or are intangible:

- Robots are advertised as only needing to run every 2 or 3 days, which increases the value proposition even more, but:
A. I'll believe it when I see it
B. Operating cost is so low already that it doesn't provide a significant difference, even if $39.42 per year drops to $20 or $15, that's only another $80 over the life of the unit, if it's even true.
- If I stay with the Polaris setup, it'll still likely leave a large portion of the pool untouched. It's a problem that's always existed, not a new one as the system started to fail
- I've had a pool in two houses for the past 12 years or so, and 4-5 years is about all I have managed to get out of the Polaris 280, which puts it on par with the Dolphin.
- The booster pump DOES last longer than 4-5 years, but not much longer. This failing one is one I put in shortly after we moved in, which was about 6 years ago.
- For MOST people, replacing the booster pump means paying someone, due to high voltages and pool plumbing. A handy person can do it, otherwise, it's likely $300 or more in labor.
- In the past 4 years, I've replaced a couple of wheels on the Polaris, and gone through about a dozen net bags where the zippers rust off and break or the bag gets giant holes in them.

This SEEMS to bear out that on a full replace, a robot makes sense, where if you have a fully functional cleaner it's more or less a matter of preference because you don't really come out ahead (until it's time to replace). Also that it will favor the robot more and more as the cost of electricity increases. My opinion would be that it's not worth switching to a robot if everything is working well, but if any piece breaks, it's financially worth swapping.

Does that reasoning make sense, or is there something I'm not considering?

Someone mentioned SWGs above and how it was similar. I actually did a similar cost-benefit on those when I was considering it as well. When we moved in the SWG wasn't programmed to run and the previous owner (or their pool service) was running it as a chlorine pool with tabs. I found even buying tabs in bulk, I found I was spending $40-50 a month in tabs to get the chlorine levels where they needed to be. Even counting non-swimming months I found that I could replace a SWG cell every other year and still break even over having to dose chlorine every week.

You analysis is definitely reasonable and within the ballpark. One minor issue that you did not factor in but doesn’t really skew the cost-benefit analysis much is that there are consumables on a robot, namely the rubber tracks and rubber sweep seals on the bottom. They last approximately 2 years before they OUGHT to be replaced (many people don’t replace them and live with the diminished performance). Tracks run about $100 to replace and the sweep seals are like $20. Assuming the filter basket panels go the distance (I had to change mine at the 4 year mark for an additional $100), your analysis is as close as it gets.

Going from a pressure cleaner to a robot is typically a good choice. I went from a suction cleaner to a robot and the ROI just isn’t there because the performance is basically equivalent and I can run the robot at the normal pool pump speed for no additional cost.

 

[mwemaxxowner]

I have a Pentair Warrior SE (rebranded S200). It sure did make life easy. It cleans very well, did a great job.

However, it died on me a month out of warranty (2years and one month). Pentair was gracious enough to warranty me anyway, so no complaints with them and how they handled that for me.

I'm on the fence as to whether 2 years of trouble free pool cleaning and a spotless pool was worth $700. If I get a sub par life this second time around, I will be going to a pressure side cleaner. My pool was already equipped with a dedicated booster pump and pressure side cleaner port. However, when I inherited the pool the Polaris Rover was in terrible shape. It needed a full rebuild, so I opted to spend that money on a robot. I will go back with any more trouble.

I cannot stress how great it was while it lasted though. My pool requires constant cleaning, and prior to the robot I had to manually vac every day but it still didn't seem clean unless I put half a day into it.