RJ-45 no flow right after equipment install

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Aquitaine

Member
Jun 23, 2021
22
Austin, TX
Hi TFP,

Went from pool novice to having a trouble free pool a couple years ago when I bought my first place with a pool and this forum was awesome with examples and assistance. Nowadays people remark on how little effort it is I spend taking care of my pool -- a 12,000 gallon in-ground jobbie with an RJ-45 SWG and Pentair VSP.

A couple weeks ago, I had a guy out to install a mastertemp 400 heater and an iAqualink upgrade kit for my ancient Aqualink control panel. The guy set off alarm bells as soon as he arrived: 'my partner used to do the electronics and he passed away recently...' but he'd been in the business forever (he's 70!) and had a young assistant so they went ahead.

Long story short, it took them a week instead of a day to do the install because various things kept going wrong and I ended up doing the iAqualink setup myself. The one problem I haven't been able to fix is that, ever since he did this install, I get 'no flow' on the RJ-45 and it just looks like the cell isn't doing anything where previously you could see water rushing through it when the pump came on. The guy said a) he'd never heard of or seen Circupool before and b) he didn't change anything and the flow sensor must be bad. He's been out a few times and demonstrated that there is water IN the cell (by opening it and water pours out) but it's not clear that there is water going THROUGH the cell.

He didn't change anything about this section of pipe or the flow sensor when installing the heater, but he did disconnect it and reconnect it several times. I am trying to figure out what to do: I ordered a new flow sensor just on the off chance that's it but I am very familiar with what this system should look like when it's working, and the cell just 'looks' busy when there's water flowing through it in a way it now looks dead (see below)

Here's a video of what happens when it comes on: New video by Samuel Knowlton

Aside from never hiring this guy again, any suggestions?
 
You'll need to post some pics of the equipment pad from different angles so the plumbing and wiring can be evaluated. Probably pics of the automation panel open too. Somehow they bypassed that part of the plumbing since the pump basket has flow. Make sure the SWG is off while it has no water or you'll damage it and you should turn it 180 degrees so the wide part is down.
 
That is one horrible plumbing job for sure. The pump lid rubs on the SWG, not much room to get the lid off easily, the exit pipe of the SWG isn't level, there are so many 90s on the exit from the heater. They also didn't put a bypass on the heater. I can't see why your cell doesn't get water unless what's in the pump basket isn't really moving. Do you have any suction at your skimmer or any water pressure back to the pool from your returns? I don't think the RJ can be automated or generally just isn't but it should be on a timer that turns it on after the pump comes on and turns it off before the pump turns off. You might have the return valves closed.
 
What rpm are you running the pump at?

Per the Circupool manual, the flow switch should have at least a 12" straight pipe on the feed side of the flow switch. The SWG cell counts as part of this 12".

A heater bypass should have been installed - this allows running the pump at a lower rpm when the heater is NOT in use.

The automation should be able to turn power on/off to the Circupool control box. It would be up to you to set that on/off schedule to be on inside of the pump run times. The Circupool controller will need to be used to set the percentage.

I agree with @TinFoilHat - I've seen better and more efficient plumbing routing.
 
The basic plumbing plumbing setup was there before I got the place and isn't new. The salt cell install location may not be great but also isn't new; it's been working for a couple years.

I unscrewed it to rotary it (assuming you meant rotate and not flip around) and there is water in it, and when I let air in I did see it flow after I turned the pump back on. But whether it was 2000 rpm or 3450 rpm, still no flow light is on.

The returns seem to be working alright and the system otherwise seems be working. Communication line to the rj45 from flow sensor is fine.

I will ask about the bypass because I have noticed that the same rpm on the pump produces less flow than before, but it's still a decent amount of flow.
 
Have you checked the flow switch for continuity using a multimeter?

The flow switch or its cable could have been damaged while they were working in the area.
 

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Aquitaine said:
No - I have a multimeter but the flow sensor just has an rj11 connector. Can I test that without dismantling it?
Click to expand...
Put your probes on the RJ-11 pins. You should see the switch closed when the pump is on and open when the pump is off.
 
Just to follow up on this: I went out of town and had my (old) pool service company come out and look at it.

They said that the salt cell had been installed upside down. I had flipped it (on the advice in this thread) so that the wide part is down, but they said that was wrong -- it had also been wide-part up its whole life and working fine, and the handful of videos I'd seen had it like that.

They said it was working when they left and sent me a picture of the 'generate' light on, but when I got back in town a few days later, it was back to 'no flow.' I spent some time with it and it turned out to be a loose data connection to the RJ-45, e.g. you'd tap it in the right place and it would generate again, so I took the cable out and cleaned it off and re-seated it and things are fine. My old service company wants $250 for coming out to flip it fat-side up again even though they didn't diagnose the actual problem.

They DID say that the system needed to be re-plumbed, which was interesting since they are the company that did some (not all) of the original plumbing. I asked for clarification and then the guy's supervisor (who had done that original work) disagreed and said it did not need re-plumbing; I checked with the tech who had come out and he (to his credit!) defended his original view despite what his boss had said and now I'm going back and forth with them about what is actually needed and who is gonna do it.

At any rate, the SWG problem turned out to be 'bad data port connection' but I am curious about the proper orientation of the salt cell and the extent to which that matters.
 
It doesn't matter. Generally it's recommended for the fat side to be down so that the plates have water on them should the cell be on when the pump is not. That's a definite no-no so make sure that doesn't happen.
 
Aquitaine said:
At any rate, the SWG problem turned out to be 'bad data port connection' but I am curious about the proper orientation of the salt cell and the extent to which that matters.
Click to expand...

The orientation of the cell makes no difference with a NO FLOW fault. The flow switch is separate from the cell.

The cell hump should be down if you run a VS pump with low flows. The hump is where the plates are. Putting the hump down keep the plates fully submerged in low flowing water. In the old days with single speed pumps the flow was always high and the plates stayed fully covered by water.

Your pool guy does not know the location of the flow switch in a Hayward system. It is different then on a Pentair cell where the flow switch is part of the cell and the orientation of the cell changes the orientation of the flow switch.
 
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