Reviving out of service pool: FG & deck Refresh

You might consider running the filter in recirculating mode for a few days until all algae is dead. Then you can start filter mode, that will let you concentrate on maintaining slam levels instead of cleaning filters.
That had actually crossed my mind, so since you've brought it up and kimkats likes it, will do.

When I add muriatic acid to lower pH, how long to recirc before testing again? Wait until pH good before adding liquid stabilizer? How long to recirc before testing CYA then?

Previous question still outstanding: pump speed 1500 ok?

Dang leak. :hammer: Three threaded joints for the valve & 2 had unions close, so, of course it'd be the one without and will have to make a cut to tighten. Actually adding a union will make getting that module in place easier, so probably for the best.
Pool Pad build - returns leak.jpg
 
The running the pump without the water going through the filter is a great idea! The 30 mins between tests is spot on as well.

You can add the stabilizer at the same time you add M.A. they play well together.

The only two that do NOT play well together are M. A. and chlorine. There should be about 30 mins between adding these two.

Pump pressure/speed-so long as the water is moving it is all good!
 
CYA also drops ph so be aware of that.
Thought I'd read that was the case. Planning to start with 3/4 of what (web) PoolMath recommends for both pH & CYA.

Possible t-storms the next couple of days, so guess the pool gods want to torment me by preventing SLAM start even if I get the leak situation resolved. It IS nice to not be in the 100°+ temps for a change. :whistle:
 
Was talking to @Dirk about my rebuild in MyAZPool's Re-Plumbing the Pool Equipment Pad thread and began to unintentionally hijack the thread. So this is to transfer the context here so we can continue discussing my pool water filler and possible need for a Back Flow Preventer (BFP):

I'd love to replumb, but there's just not enough room where they crammed in my pad...

Hey, if I can do it... :LOL:
Pool Pad build - 07 pump module.jpg

Holy water park ride Batman! Ka-Pow! Please tell me you color-coded your plumbing, so I can be happier still! :love: Love the sweeps! Yah, someone noticed!

Oh, wait, gotta ding ya 5 points for the wrong BFP. Sorry. You're still way ahead, though.

I have a thread color id here
Don't know what that [BFP] is. And googling it is ... interesting. :D

It's a little convoluted. PBs (and DIYers?) like to use sprinkler valves for fill water because they're cheap and readily available. And if your fill outlet is well above the pool's waterline, a sprinkler valve is mostly OK (as long as there is no way to connect a hose to anything downstream of the sprinkler valve). But...

If your fill outlet is, or can get, under the waterline, then the use of a sprinkler valve is a little less ideal. Or...

If the sprinkler valve is feeding a second auto-filler valve down stream, then a sprinkler valve is definitely the wrong component.

I can go into more detail if you're interested, and if any of those scenarios apply to your setup. A BFP (back flow preventer) protects the water supply, both yours and the neighborhood's, from contamination from pool water entering the public water system. There are specific types to use and specific reasons for using them, which may or may not apply to what you are using them for. If it turns out you're in the clear, I can probably get you your 5 points back, but that can take 8 to 10 weeks...

Ah, Back Flow Preventer. On a well, so no neighborhood worries. :) The pad is also "irrigation central", so most of those valves are really for the intended purpose. Have a "master" check valve before all of the irrigation lines/valves so dirty water shouldn't be able to escape. 🤞 The irrigation valve for pool fill is above max water line. Actually bought an additional check valve to put on the output of the "filler" valve, but since irrigation valve claims to be anti-syphon, didn't put it in - mostly because the check valve says it has to installed horizonally which would be tough.

If you think I haven't done enough, can we talk about it over on my thread rather than continuing to hijack this one? I'd opened a thread several months ago about possible problems converting an old vac line to a water fill with an irrigation valve, but a mod moved it quickly to my thread, so you probably didn't see it then.

====================================

The irrigation valve and hose bibs setup
Pool Pad irrigation & hose bib lines 1 front.jpg

Pool Pad irrigation & hose bib lines 2 left.jpg

Pool Pad irrigation & hose bib lines 3 right.jpg

The pool filler outlet is below the water line as it is a repurposed Polaris vac port.

Have a bunch of valves for lawn & raised garden boxes in the area to the right, but because of shed & tree growth shade, going to have to scrap & rebuild it all. If I need to add a BFP instead of using a check valve, would be great to know now. (y)
 
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Sorry for a suggestion that is way past its due date.. so file this away for future reference. I was focused on your pool piping and not really your sprinklers. You can simplify the sprinkler stuff by putting a single PVB at the origin of your water source. Then you can use simpler (cheaper) straight valves downstream that don't have the built in backwash valves. I did this to my Dad's sprinkler system, and I am currently retro fitting my sprinkler system in the same way.
 
So... BFP. Back Flow Preventer. They are used to protect the water source. Yours and your neighbors'. A well doesn't exempt the need, even it it's just you on your own well. Besides, if you contaminate your well, there is the underground source to consider, which could affect others "downstream."

Accidental events (like a broken water main, for example) can create a situation where water is sucked out of a contaminated source on an individual's property, back out into the public's common water source (the water main). Later, when the main is repaired, the contaminated water gets pushed back into all the surrounding houses! The contaminated source might be a pool, or a hose filling a bucket of nasty garden chemicals, or one watering a muddy garden, an improperly installed water filter or water softener, etc. A BFP keeps any water from your property from entering the public's. In your case, a BFP keeps your pool or irrigation water out of your well.

What is a BFP? Your sprinkler valve has one (anti-siphon). Your toilet has one (the air gap between your tank's filler tube and the top of the water level). Your dishwasher should have an air gap (water softeners and whole house filters are supposed to). Your outdoor hose bibs are supposed to (that little brass fitting between hose and faucet). And your well is supposed to have one. Etc. All designed to keep water from flowing the wrong way.

So, if your pool filler's outlet is well above the waterline, that's an air gap and an appropriate BFP. If that same line also has a sprinkler valve and/or a cheapie check valve type gizmo (I think you described) that's even better (though not actually necessary). You're good to go.

If your pool filler's outlet is under the water line, then you've got some potential for a back-flow event. The sprinkler valve or check valve, located well above the water level, is good (it's to be 12" or 18" min. I think). And as long as they are functioning, and the BFP that's supposed to be at the bottom of the pipe in your well is also functioning, then you're OK. A lot would have to go wrong for a BF event to occur. But here's the rub: sprinkler valves and cheapie check valves provide no way to determine if they're working. There's no way to test them. And testing the well's BFP is not easy to do. I'm guessing you've never thought to check, or even knew it was down there (that's if there even is one down there!). So if your well's system is not up to snuff, and your sprinkler valve's anti-siphon component is leaking, and because of the gravity feed nature of a well, you could conceivably be getting pool water in your well without even knowing. This is farfetched, of course. Just pointing out the possibility. A proper BFP for a residential water system would look something like this, which is of good quality and can be tested.

Screen Shot 2020-09-03 at 9.09.20 AM.png

About $60 on Amazon. All bronze. Testing ports, etc.

It becomes even more important to have a good BFP valve if there are any other valves downstream (like an auto-filler), because that would mean the BFP is under constant pressure. The anti-siphon component of a sprinkler valve is on the sprinkler side of the valve, so that it's not really ever under full pressure when used for its intended purpose, and only then when the valve is open. They can handle that. But if there is an auto-filler valve downstream, then the sprinkler valve's anti-siphon component is under constant, full-on pressure and they are not rated for that and will eventually fail (and you'll never know it happened). So when there is a second valve, it's way more important to have a high-quality BFP that is rated for the pressure (not all are), and is testable to boot.

So there you have it. More than you ever wanted to know about BFP! You decide for yourself what level of protection you want to have based on your filler's plumbing configuration. Or you could put a good one out by the well, have it tested once in a while, and solve for your entire water system.

BTW, I got this info straight from my bud, who helped me design my pool's BFP setup. He works for the water utility of a major CA city, so he knows his stuff. Part of his job is testing local businesses' BFPs, which are required along with annual testing. (And he tests mine every so often, which makes it "convenient" for me to rag about BFP testing, right?) Residences are not required to have BFPs, but he thinks they are moving towards that in CA. They'll start with new construction and eventually mandate retrofits for all. I even called him last night for ya, because while I remembered what he thought me for a typical city neighborhood, I wasn't sure how someone on a well would be affected. Turns out someone on a well is just as vulnerable to a BF event, in not more so, as us "city folk."
 
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@Dirk, thanks for taking the time to detail this. Looks like it'll be something I'll want to add when I redo the irrigation mess. Sure glad I already have separatation between my hose bib line & the lines for irrigation valves and that the irrigation lines at least have a check valve on them at present. I'm quite sure my well does not have a BFP; house built in 1976 and ... my oh my, how code has changed since then. :LOL:
 
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After months of super hot & dry, getting lower temps & t-storms yesterday & today. Figures. I'm ready to take my pool pipes back out to leak test them again, so of course we're under a flash flood watch now. Kind of hard to see leaks when pad is already wet. :LOL:
 
Is the leak on the suction side or the pressure side? (I know, I know, I could look up the color code! ;) ) Here's a leak test you can do on the suction side. Maybe not in the pouring rain, but a wet pad won't matter, and you don't have to take anything apart.

 
@Dirk nice breakdown of how those things work. My parents lived in a rural-ish Ag area when they had their house built many years ago. So my Dad was talking to irrigation supply places that supplied the local farmers for advide. So of course they recommended that he put the whole system on a PFB/PVB valvle for the landscaping just like the farmers do for their orchards. It was overkill back then, but that what my dad was all about anytime he took on a project. Since they were on a well It also protected the source water as well. So the well water TEE'd one side going into the house's holding tank the other went to the PFB for the yard irrigation. the PFB vavle had to be 3 feet higher than the highest faucet/sprinkler head. One of the benies of doing this way is we could use straight through valves without the anti-siphon addon and they can be put in a box underground. It made the plumbing easier and the valves were less expensive.
Fast forward 30 years and I am resurrecting the lessons learned from that project.... my sprinkler system for my house is 35 years old. The antisiphon sprinkler valves are all starting to require more and more attention. So I am getting ready for a total rebuild. I was happy to see the Febco PVB valves are still available, are reasonably priced on Amazon. Looky there I can get everything on Amazon. Alas, what I will miss is going into the Ag irrigation supply stores and shooting the bull with the old timers.
 
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BFPs are Murphy's Law inhibitors! But if you install one, you'll have wasted the money because the accident leading to a back-flow event magically will never occur! 🤪
 
Is the leak on the suction side or the pressure side?
The one that I found was on the pressure side. If I didn't have painted pipes, it would have been a quick fix, but it takes 2 or 3 coats of paint with dry time for the new union, so a whole day was shot. Since I had the whole return module out, I redid all of the threaded joints on the ground layer with teflon tape as before but also thread dope this time. And used a little darker shade of aqua for the main pipe (suction aka pump module) so it is easier to see the difference between it and the skimmer & main/skimmer mix pipes.

This pipe maze is all new, so everything has to be checked.

While it's still raining, have bought a new solar cover, researching reels to decide whether to fix the old one or buy new, and checking diy pool vac hose storage. There's always something to spend $ and/or keep busy on. :ROFLMAO:
 
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When you say "I redid all of the threaded joints on the ground layer with teflon tape as before but also thread dope" are you talking about the unions, too? If not, it's either teflon or dope, not both. They can work against each other (though I understand the temptation to use both!).

But definitely neither for the unions. Unions have o-rings which can be compromised by dope (chemically incompatible) and defeated by the tape (if a little strand of the tape gets across the ring). The o-ring doesn't need any help from those. But does need to be properly cleaned and lubricated to seat and seal properly.

 
it's either teflon or dope, not both.
Yes, I've read that, but for those particular joints, I'm doing it anyhow. I had good luck with a leak at the Water Bonder, but then again, that was a metal to pvc connection. And no, not taping or gooping the unions. All I did there was use Magic Lube II on the o-rings.
 
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